Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office) Forum

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Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:37 pm

Just got offers from both for next summer in Litigation and was just hoping people could help me choose between them. Anybody have any insight as to the particular characteristics/culture/style/etc of these places


Stats for anyone waiting still on these firms -- NYU (transfer) 3.504 GPA some work experience but none professionally

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:43 pm

I’ve heard that working at Kirkland NYC sucks. I’d take Debevoise easily.

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:43 pm

KE and Deb are like polar opposites culturally, which (IMO) should make the choice pretty easy. Like a competitive, eat-what-you-kill culture? Thirsty to outshine your yearmates and be rewarded with better/more/more substantive work and bigger bonuses? Go to Kirkland. Prefer a consensus-driven system where you get assignments via central mechanism and get paid on lockstep? Go to Deb.

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:01 pm

I can't think of two more different firms. Go with fit, though Deb will generally be better for litigation.

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:19 pm

Congrats--that is some amazing outcome!! Didn't mean to hijack your thread but would you mind sharing some tips on how to interview well? I am also a transfer but really struggling to convert my cbs to an offer...:/

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:11 am

What type of litigation are you interested in. Both are great litigation firms but I believe these firms actually differ in this regard and you should check out their strengths. Of the top of my head, Debevoise does more investigations, white collar and securities-related lit whereas Kirkland does a more IP and general lit.

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by nls336 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:Congrats--that is some amazing outcome!! Didn't mean to hijack your thread but would you mind sharing some tips on how to interview well? I am also a transfer but really struggling to convert my cbs to an offer...:/
Hi! OP here, don't worry I totally understand you're 0.0% hijaking.
My response might be kind of long-winded and a little out there but..

To be honest, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm not really sure what I do that works -- pretty lame but I just try to connect with my interviewer. For the first few seconds I sort of look around his or her office while we do the whole "how are you// I'm in a fugue state//where am i//who am i//oci is tough// I remember when I was in your shoes; I went to NYU too" conversations. Mostly I just try to pick up a sense of my interviewer as a person from that "do they have kids, are they enthusiastic, do they decorate with things they love? I think that's more for me in terms of understanding whether or not there's extra or introversion happening with the way my interviewer expresses themselves. Sometimes there are little gizmos on the desk like a soda stream, or a "Number 1. dad cup". My favorite Kirkland interviewer was just so happy and wonderful. He had all of his son's art around his room and we talked about how it was his birthday.

Obviously, I would say don't like look around and try to read a document for anything to ask about if you've got one in front of you, or pick up on the lone family picture and ask about that, but if you see clearly that there's a ton of stuff lying around of their kids especially if that stuff is facing deliberately your side of the desk, or a ton of stuff lying around about golf or travelling saying "oh wow your kids are adorable" or "I've been there, I think, is that Greece?" isn't a bad way to get them out of the interviewer function and into the human function. I say this because if there's a lot of it, or it's where you are then I think subconsciously that person might love just sharing about their kids and it's nice to talk about things other people are interested in, you know?

Once I feel like I can kinda sense if they're like me, or who they are, then I try to slowly slip some general tidbits in there repackaged for them. For instance, at Kirkland I interviewed with someone very involved with the diversity + inclusion committee, so as soon as I got a feel for him I made sure to be really passionate about that and talk about my experience working for diversity initiatives. If I have a woman I'm always sure to mention how nice it is to have high up women whose careers I can look up to as I make my way into the legal profession because of course when you think of ambitious careers it's far more easy to recall a man's career just because there are more of them in the legal profession by default. I ask about how the office grows with its associates as associates move from being recent graduates to more mature young adults, or even maybe parents and partners. That helps to get them talking about their lives if they're parents or getting married so that chews some time up.

To be fair, though, things went on in my interview that I wouldn't recommend doing if you're unsure of yourself. In the last two of my interviews at Kirkland I talked about the state of the political system and what it's like to be center-left (normally connected to my time spent living in Appalachia, which they invariably ask me about like it's the New World) and in my last interview with an associate we just talked about what Trump means for American society etc. etc.

I've had bad interviews though with people as well where we didn't connect and I couldn't make it happen in that case you really need to rely heavily on contextual/environment/biographical clues to inform your questions: "How do cases in M&A/tax/pro-bono come across your desk" "I've been thinking about tax/bankruptcy even though I am more focused on litigation can you tell me something that helped you decide" "are you working on something now you really enjoy" "is there something you don't like about this firm or its environment" "have you found any difficulty in establishing yourself as a go-to person here" "I see you've done some work in Argentina with PVDSA can you tell me about what that was like". Honestly when it's not going well just get them to spend the most time talking about themselves; they'll give you something to work with.

some other small things include mirroring their body language slightly, after a few moments change up your position and lean to the side they're leaning to or putting a hand on their desk when you lean in to say something important in the right moment. Just use the space, express who you are, and don't be afraid of a bad interview. I know it's so scary when you don't have an offer yet, but the best interviews I've had are the ones I felt like weren't going to happen for me. Kirkland brings in like 50 kids an interview day so I had already kind of given up on the whole idea based on how many people there were.

Idk if any of that helps you, but if it doesn't just reply back and I'll PM you or find a way for us to get in touch.

nls336

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by nls336 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:28 pm

nls336 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Congrats--that is some amazing outcome!! Didn't mean to hijack your thread but would you mind sharing some tips on how to interview well? I am also a transfer but really struggling to convert my cbs to an offer...:/
Hi! OP here, don't worry I totally understand you're 0.0% hijaking.
My response might be kind of long-winded and a little out there but..

To be honest, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm not really sure what I do that works -- pretty lame but I just try to connect with my interviewer. For the first few seconds I sort of look around his or her office while we do the whole "how are you// I'm in a fugue state//where am i//who am i//oci is tough// I remember when I was in your shoes; I went to NYU too" conversations. Mostly I just try to pick up a sense of my interviewer as a person from that "do they have kids, are they enthusiastic, do they decorate with things they love? I think that's more for me in terms of understanding whether or not there's extra or introversion happening with the way my interviewer expresses themselves. Sometimes there are little gizmos on the desk like a soda stream, or a "Number 1. dad cup". My favorite Kirkland interviewer was just so happy and wonderful. He had all of his son's art around his room and we talked about how it was his birthday.

Obviously, I would say don't like look around and try to read a document for anything to ask about if you've got one in front of you, or pick up on the lone family picture and ask about that, but if you see clearly that there's a ton of stuff lying around of their kids especially if that stuff is facing deliberately your side of the desk, or a ton of stuff lying around about golf or travelling saying "oh wow your kids are adorable" or "I've been there, I think, is that Greece?" isn't a bad way to get them out of the interviewer function and into the human function. I say this because if there's a lot of it, or it's where you are then I think subconsciously that person might love just sharing about their kids and it's nice to talk about things other people are interested in, you know?

Once I feel like I can kinda sense if they're like me, or who they are, then I try to slowly slip some general tidbits in there repackaged for them. For instance, at Kirkland I interviewed with someone very involved with the diversity + inclusion committee, so as soon as I got a feel for him I made sure to be really passionate about that and talk about my experience working for diversity initiatives. If I have a woman I'm always sure to mention how nice it is to have high up women whose careers I can look up to as I make my way into the legal profession because of course when you think of ambitious careers it's far more easy to recall a man's career just because there are more of them in the legal profession by default. I ask about how the office grows with its associates as associates move from being recent graduates to more mature young adults, or even maybe parents and partners. That helps to get them talking about their lives if they're parents or getting married so that chews some time up.

To be fair, though, things went on in my interview that I wouldn't recommend doing if you're unsure of yourself. In the last two of my interviews at Kirkland I talked about the state of the political system and what it's like to be center-left (normally connected to my time spent living in Appalachia, which they invariably ask me about like it's the New World) and in my last interview with an associate we just talked about what Trump means for American society etc. etc.

I've had bad interviews though with people as well where we didn't connect and I couldn't make it happen in that case you really need to rely heavily on contextual/environment/biographical clues to inform your questions: "How do cases in M&A/tax/pro-bono come across your desk" "I've been thinking about tax/bankruptcy even though I am more focused on litigation can you tell me something that helped you decide" "are you working on something now you really enjoy" "is there something you don't like about this firm or its environment" "have you found any difficulty in establishing yourself as a go-to person here" "I see you've done some work in Venezuela with PVDSA can you tell me about what that was like". Honestly when it's not going well just get them to spend the most time talking about themselves; they'll give you something to work with.

some other small things include mirroring their body language slightly, after a few moments change up your position and lean to the side they're leaning to or putting a hand on their desk when you lean in to say something important in the right moment. Just use the space, express who you are, and don't be afraid of a bad interview. I know it's so scary when you don't have an offer yet, but the best interviews I've had are the ones I felt like weren't going to happen for me. Kirkland brings in like 50 kids an interview day so I had already kind of given up on the whole idea based on how many people there were.

Idk if any of that helps you, but if it doesn't just reply back and I'll PM you or find a way for us to get in touch.

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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:59 pm

In the Kirkland vs. x firm debate, I would go way further down the list than Debevoise before I chose to go to kirkland instead. Deb is a great option, and an easy choice here imho.

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:48 am

Debevoise. It’s not that close. Kirkland is a competitor for corporate, but their New York office is not considered elite for litigation.

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Re: Kirkland v. Debevoise (NY office)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:47 pm

Any opinion about exit options for corporate at these two firms?

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