Houston OCI, Callbacks, Offers Forum

[Anonymous User]

Sidley Houston v. K&E Houston. Pros and cons of each?

Both are great offices. I think Sidley is up and coming whereas K&E has already arrived at the top of tier 1 in Houston. Sidley is going to be company-side work whereas K&E will be a PE-heavy mix (with the opportunity to do company-side as well). It isn't clear how Sidley would weather a downturn (which will come eventually). Think the culture/feel of the two offices is quite different and I would probably decide between those two based on the cultural fit/where you feel most comfortable provided that if they both feel like a good fit that I would take K&E.

Agreed. If the cultural fit for you is similar between the two, I would prob lean KE. Both are tough places to make partner but will get you great experience and keep open plenty of in house doors and lateral opportunities - KE is just more established.

[Anonymous User]

To put a finer point on the above description re: KE and Sidley, Sidley has a mix of company-side and PE work (but clearly less so than KE). KE has PE work in spades, which is driven in large part by the large deal flow from Blackstone. Depending if you want to work in a PE firm and/or a company afterwards, this should be a consideration.

The associate / equity partner leverage ratios are a little different too between the two firms. Sidley is around 2:1, and KE around [4]:1 or so, which is also reflected in the attrition model between the two offices. Not sure how many have left each office in the past year or so though, but may be worth asking post call-back or worth diligencing.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement this week on any fronts? I've had 4 CBs this week so far, but no movement. Itching for that first offer

[Anonymous User]

Any movement this week on any fronts? I've had 4 CBs this week so far, but no movement. Itching for that first offer

Two callbacks so far. When my Monday firm found out I have an offer outstanding from pre-recruiting they moved quickly and made me an offer the same day. Nothing from today’s CB yet.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement this week on any fronts? I've had 4 CBs this week so far, but no movement. Itching for that first offer

Two callbacks so far. When my Monday firm found out I have an offer outstanding from pre-recruiting they moved quickly and made me an offer the same day. Nothing from today’s CB yet.

but which firms tho

[Anonymous User]

LW offer. 24 hour turnaround.

[Anonymous User]

LW offer. 24 hour turnaround.

now, this is some good data.

[Anonymous User]

I've read a little bit using the search function, but would appreciate thoughts and experiences with Skadden and Simpson Thacher's Houston offices.

Both are pretty much true satellite offices that aren't making partners and have no real growth. Would definitely take any of the big national names with more established offices (KE/Sidley/LW) or certain big Texas firms (VE/BB) over them. Have also heard some nasty things about STB-Houston's culture, but prefer not to elaborate. If you have the grades for those, I would choose KE or VE (which depends on how much you want to work with PE clients, which has its own pros and cons).

Current Houston based associate here. This is 100% false with respect to STB. If anything, K&E is the firm in Houston that is known for a terrible culture and no one I know likes working across from them on deals (they consistently sit on and then turn drafts on Friday nights to kill your weekend, take aggressive positions for weeks only to cave and waste everyone’s time, etc.). People are not really staying there longer than they have to (e.g., once the restrictions on paying back those signing bonuses are gone, so are the associates).

If you want a good picture of any firm you are interviewing, look how the people interact with each other in the offices (not just your interviewers) and how they interact with the support staff and not just word of mouth. STB gets a lot of flack on this forum because they purposely grew slowly instead of trying to buy every lateral. I’ve only ever had good dealings and things to say about the STB Houston folks. I would bet at least 2 people make partner in the office this year based on discussions with some STB juniors in Houston and NY. The office is also now much larger than it was a few years ago and mostly through organic growth through its summer program (though still on one floor).

Long story short, form your own opinions (about both STB and K&E - to echo another poster, there is a lot of bad blood between the firms because of the circumstances of K&E’s Houston office opening). Will note that with a firm at STB’s or Skadden’s or Sidley’s size, it’s MUCH harder to hide people that would engender a bad culture than a larger firm - I’d guess almost everyone in each of those offices is involved with recruiting in some respect, whether its OCIs, callback interviews or lunches/coffees.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement this week on any fronts? I've had 4 CBs this week so far, but no movement. Itching for that first offer

Two callbacks so far. When my Monday firm found out I have an offer outstanding from pre-recruiting they moved quickly and made me an offer the same day. Nothing from today’s CB yet.

but which firms tho

Sidley offer in about 3 hours.
NRF - no answer yet

UPDATE: GDC offer on the morning following my interview.

[Anonymous User]

KE offer about 24 hours after CB

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received an offer from NRF? Timeline?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received an offer from NRF? Timeline?

I interviewed at NRF yesterday. They said one to two weeks, but that if you had an offer outstanding somewhere else to let them know and they'd speed the process up.

[Anonymous User]

Agree on problems with STB culture and why it doesn’t make sense to elaborate based on rumors. Had CB at K&E and V&E. Asked K&E about supposed attrition. They said a grand total of 11 attorneys have left over last 2 years. Sounds like the poster above simply has an axe to grind with K&E.

OK, wait. Are you a law student? Did you really just do a CB with them and turn around and throw firm beef on an internet forum, about something you have absolutely no personal knowledge about?

If you know something about a firm that people looking at this thread should know, then say it. Doesn't make sense to elaborate based on rumors? This thread is only PSEUDO-anonymous? I mean, yikes. Again, I'm still fairly certain there is no moral high ground here, but I think it's more in the spirit of this board and this thread to be less, idk, cringy.

[Anonymous User]

I am different from OP on STB culture and definitely didn’t, or wouldn’t, do a CB there. Appreciate your view, but not obligated to elaborate at all. Take it with whatever pinch of salt you want and whatever discount you want to take for an Internet forum. Folks can figure it out for themselves if they ask around and think about why people would be reticent to elaborate on a message board.

[Anonymous User]

Agree on problems with STB culture and why it doesn’t make sense to elaborate based on rumors. Had CB at K&E and V&E. Asked K&E about supposed attrition. They said a grand total of 11 attorneys have left over last 2 years. Sounds like the poster above simply has an axe to grind with K&E.

I am different from OP on STB culture and definitely didn’t, or wouldn’t, do a CB there. Appreciate your view, but not obligated to elaborate at all. Take it with whatever pinch of salt you want and whatever discount you want to take for an Internet forum. Folks can figure it out for themselves if they ask around and think about why people would be reticent to elaborate on a message board.

To drop a bomb and not elaborate on a negative comment that might be completely unfounded does a disservice to other people reading this ESPECIALLY if you have no basis for the statement other than rumors heard as a non-practitioner in the market with no familiarity with the firms in question.

I am a current STB Houston associate and I am happy to field questions on the culture, the office or the Houston market. There is no culture problem in the office and I personally have no plans to leave even if someone offers me the large sums of money floating around the lateral market. I would not trade my current job for $ and the huge risk of leaving for a firm with a culture that is not as comfortable and welcoming as our office.

My recommendation to anyone reading this thread, though, is to talk to attorneys who actually work in the Houston market and can speak personally about a firm (work there or have worked across or with another firm), and ask the person you’re interviewing with why she or he has stayed with the firm as long as they did or why they joined the firm in the first place.

[Anonymous User]

Trying to decide between TK, Akin, and NRF. Any thoughts? Looking to do transactional work. Any considerations are helpful (work-life balance, partnership, exits, pay, etc.)

[Anonymous User]

Trying to decide between TK, Akin, and NRF. Any thoughts? Looking to do transactional work. Any considerations are helpful (work-life balance, partnership, exits, pay, etc.)

Do you have an offer from TK? When was your CB and when was your offer?

[Anonymous User]

Trying to decide between TK, Akin, and NRF. Any thoughts? Looking to do transactional work. Any considerations are helpful (work-life balance, partnership, exits, pay, etc.)

Do you have an offer from TK? When was your CB and when was your offer?

Take NRF off your list if you want to do transactional work...it’s made a concerted effort to go litigation heavy and their transactional practice generally is dissipating. To be honest, Akin has been struggling in Houston over the last couple of years, but I’d pick that over TK b/c it is slightly more prestigious and the exits (laterals) would probably be slightly better. If you want to make a career out of your destination, I think it’s Akin hands down based on firm health, which isn’t close. There is your answer.

[Anonymous User]

Trying to decide between TK, Akin, and NRF. Any thoughts? Looking to do transactional work. Any considerations are helpful (work-life balance, partnership, exits, pay, etc.)

Do you have an offer from TK? When was your CB and when was your offer?

Take NRF off your list if you want to do transactional work...it’s made a concerted effort to go litigation heavy and their transactional practice generally is dissipating. To be honest, Akin has been struggling in Houston over the last couple of years, but I’d pick that over TK b/c it is slightly more prestigious and the exits (laterals) would probably be slightly better. If you want to make a career out of your destination, I think it’s Akin hands down based on firm health, which isn’t close. There is your answer.

I would agree that NRF should be your last choice. I’ve actually worked/clerked at both Akin and TK Houston (don’t work at either now) - personally, I would go to TK 100% over Akin. Akin is a great firm overall, but it’s Texas offices are fairly miserable places (I hear Dallas is much worse than Houston - I can’t imagine). All Akin decisions are made in DC or NYC. TK certainly isn’t as big or as “prestigious,” but if you want a firm you can be at a while, I would go there. If you’re certain you want to go in house after a few years, I’d prob go Akin just for the guaranteed Cravath bonus at 1900 hours (plus 100 pro bono) - TK is Cravath base, but I would be shocked if it’s bonuses are total Cravath matches.

[Anonymous User]

I am a current STB Houston associate and I am happy to field questions on the culture, the office or the Houston market. There is no culture problem in the office and I personally have no plans to leave even if someone offers me the large sums of money floating around the lateral market. I would not trade my current job for $ and the huge risk of leaving for a firm with a culture that is not as comfortable and welcoming as our office.

My recommendation to anyone reading this thread, though, is to talk to attorneys who actually work in the Houston market and can speak personally about a firm (work there or have worked across or with another firm), and ask the person you’re interviewing with why she or he has stayed with the firm as long as they did or why they joined the firm in the first place.

I'll bite. Midlevel at VE/BB here. The below are questions I have and think any savvy summer should be asking.

Roughly what range of associate are you (junior, mid or senior) and do you hope to make partner or have a plan to exit? If exit, do you see a material difference between your exit options and those of someone at VE?

How many partners (not counsel) have been made in that office since opening (not counting any that were made at opening)?

Growth and no growth both have their own problems (every firm has problems)--what do you see are the problems in the STB office?

The office doesn't seem to be growing in any substantial way or have size even close to the big Houston offices (30ish lawyers after being open for 7 years) but this doesn't seem to concern you--why isn't the office growing and why aren't you concerned?

[Anonymous User]

Two associates (both were made counsel as an interim step) have made equity in 7 years. They currently only have 4 equity partners total, that’s public on their website.

[Anonymous User]

I'll bite. Midlevel at VE/BB here. The below are questions I have and think any savvy summer should be asking.

Roughly what range of associate are you (junior, mid or senior) and do you hope to make partner or have a plan to exit? If exit, do you see a material difference between your exit options and those of someone at VE?

Junior/Mid - I can see myself staying here long term but could also see myself going in house to a client or potentially pivoting to the business side of things. I am not sure what exit options someone at V&E has but would assume they are different given the client base. Our exit options are no different than our NY office and I don’t think anyone would have trouble exiting to a Houston client or a firm client generally outside of Houston.

How many partners (not counsel) have been made in that office since opening (not counting any that were made at opening)?

Since opened by the managing partner, they have made 4 partners. 1 was a lateral from BB and 2 from our NY office (who were made counsel first and then partner). Calder obviously also was a partner but left to open K&E. That being said, not many people have been up for partnership in the office as there have been very few senior folks up for it in the last 3-4 years. Simpson as a firm wide practice generally does not hire lateral partners and promotes from within and prefers partners that started at Simpson or have been with Simpson for a long time. I would anticipate that 2-3 people will be made partner this year and potentially another 1-2 the following year.

Also a general note that the STB partnership track is normally 9-12 years and contemplates the counsel/sr counsel position as a normal progression to partner. Most associates who end up as a partner are a counsel or senior counsel first.

Growth and no growth both have their own problems (every firm has problems)--what do you see are the problems in the STB office?

There are no issues with growth in the office. The speed of growth has been planned from the get go and is a different growth model from Latham/K&E and other national firms, largely because Simpson prefers not to hire laterals and grow organically. We are at around 35 attorneys now and have another 5-6 joining us this fall and another 7-8 joining next fall. We also have a few more people from our NY office lateralling down to Houston this fall/spring. We likely will have a larger summer class next summer than this summer. I’d recommend listening to the ATL podcast where our managing partner discusses the growth model of the office for more background.

The “problem” up until this year was the lack of mid-levels in two groups specifically, though a lot of firms have this issue. This meant juniors in those groups had to do more substantive tasks and generally work more than probably is normal but no one has complaints since the people and clients are phenomenal. But that also meant more exposure to working directly with partners and counsel.

The office doesn't seem to be growing in any substantial way or have size even close to the big Houston offices (30ish lawyers after being open for 7 years) but this doesn't seem to concern you--why isn't the office growing and why aren't you concerned?

See above. I note that the Houston office is really the only Simpson office that is growing in size (about 10-15% each year) currently given there has been below market attrition since the office opened. The NY office, as a comparison, is in “maintenance mode” and has reduced the NY summer class from 100 around when I started to 75 this past summer. The Houston summer class in comparison has grown from 3 in 2014 (first summer class) to probably around 10-12 in 2019.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

That is a silly post and shows how out of touch you must be. This process is hard enough without firms making numbers up to hoodwink students to join which is what you seem to be doing. When we ask how many partners have been made up we are trying to get a sense of the chances of making it in the office if we start our career there. It doesn’t count to say we made up someone from Baker Botts or to reference the managing partner at another firm. Is the previous post correct that you have made two partners organically in 7 years and only have 4 total now? Also interested in your comment that the STB partnership track is 9-12 years. I have friends/classmates interviewing with your NY ofc who have been told that the track is 8-9 years. Are you making a general statement about STB or just a longer track in Houston? You also reference that you expect to double your summer class next year. If that is true why the sudden switch, you haven’t grown above 35 lawyers in 7 years. Should a student really believe you are going to convince 7-8 to join next year (OCI is still ongoing so not even sure how you can project that). Finally you say there were three summers in 2014. From even minimal research on the Internet it appears the office opened in July of 2014. How could you have had 3 summers that year? Do you even work at STB?

I have no dog in this fight as I have offers from several of the large firms in houston/didn’t OCI with you, but this doesn’t seem cool to try to play with the facts to convince folks to start their careers at STB under false pretenses.

Literally rolling my eyes at this post. I was asked how many people were made partners and I answered accordingly. Calder was made a partner in the Houston office. Him leaving for K&E shortly thereafter was not anticipated at the time he made partner with STB. If you want to know about the ability to be made partner he should be included. Yes, there are 4 partners right now but there is room for more partners to be made and people will be up for partnership this year. On an equity partner to non-equity attorney ratio, we are no different than K&E - do the math yourself (might even be a lower leverage here than K&E).

Your friends interviewing for the NY office were probably given a little kool aid. 8 years would be unusual. 9 is on the earlier side but possible for all-star associates. 10-12 is the norm after being made counsel after year 8/9.

We had 8 summers this past summer so yes, we will have 7-8 joining next fall (1 is clerking so we’ll probably supplement with a 3L hire) since we have those acceptances in hand. We are on one floor and have been interviewing around 4-5 people a day for the last 2.5 weeks in our office and will be for the next 1.5 weeks or so. We are likely going to hit our targeted numbers just fine and may go over if the yield is high on offers=>acceptances.

The office opened July 2011: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... e-Robert-R..

You seem very misinformed or you are trolling. Either way, the above post is a prime example as to why 2Ls should not speak to firms they have not directly interacted or interviewed with.