Houston OCI, Callbacks, Offers Forum

[Anonymous User]

Deciding GDC v. AK?

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on when it becomes appropriate to contact a recruiter for updates? 4 cbs last week and I have heard nothing since. Going crazy. UT student at basically median, so I am really a wildcard here. Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

As to GDC v AK, to me GDC is the clear choice, but obviously opinions differ.

In regard to your callbacks and whether you should followup, feel free to, but don't feel like you have to.

[Anonymous User]

I am trying to decide whether or not I should split. Does splitting increase your odds of being no offered by Texas biglaw firms? Not worth the risk?

[Yardbird]

I am trying to decide whether or not I should split. Does splitting increase your odds of being no offered by Texas biglaw firms? Not worth the risk?

Texas firms have moved away from the split summer model in order to compete with certain national firms that didn’t do the traditional Texas 6/6 split. Most firms allow a split in theory but require you to start at the firm first for 8-10 weeks (so really only practical if you’re splitting to return to your 1L summer job after 8-10 weeks at the 2L job).

In theory it should not decrease your chances to get an offer but a split in Texas biglaw is likely as encouraged or as common now (at least in Houston) as a split in other major cities.

[Pneumonia]

Any thoughts on when it becomes appropriate to contact a recruiter for updates? 4 cbs last week and I have heard nothing since. Going crazy. UT student at basically median, so I am really a wildcard here. Thoughts?

I don't see any upside to contacting a recruiter in this situation. They're very busy right now, and you'll just come off as nervous/antsy which isn't a good look. I think you could contact recruiting if you get an offer from another firm, though.

Also, I know a week feels like a long time, but depending on the market/firm offers can take 2-3+ weeks to come in.

[Pneumonia]

I am trying to decide whether or not I should split. Does splitting increase your odds of being no offered by Texas biglaw firms? Not worth the risk?

The traditional split is dead. I.e., no on is splitting BB/VE/NRF anymore (and obviously not the national firms). The exception is if you worked at, say, VE as a 1L, they MIGHT let you do a full summer at another firm 2L and then "touchback" with them after. But I think even that is growing less common.

Splits still happen with boutiques and smaller firms though. But in that case its not really a split. Instead, you're spending 8-10 weeks at BB/VE/KE/LW etc. and then, after you've done a full summer, spending another few weeks at a smaller firm. It's good money and there's no reason not to do it if that option is available to you. But a lot of firms that take second-half summers in this category have sub-50% offer rates, so be aware of that. Of course, if you get the big firm offer, it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous User]

I am trying to decide whether or not I should split. Does splitting increase your odds of being no offered by Texas biglaw firms? Not worth the risk?

The traditional split is dead. I.e., no on is splitting BB/VE/NRF anymore (and obviously not the national firms). The exception is if you worked at, say, VE as a 1L, they MIGHT let you do a full summer at another firm 2L and then "touchback" with them after. But I think even that is growing less common.

Splits still happen with boutiques and smaller firms though. But in that case its not really a split. Instead, you're spending 8-10 weeks at BB/VE/KE/LW etc. and then, after you've done a full summer, spending another few weeks at a smaller firm. It's good money and there's no reason not to do it if that option is available to you. But a lot of firms that take second-half summers in this category have sub-50% offer rates, so be aware of that. Of course, if you get the big firm offer, it doesn't matter.

What are examples of second-half firms that have sub-50% offer rates, if you don't mind sharing?

[Anonymous User]

I am trying to decide whether or not I should split. Does splitting increase your odds of being no offered by Texas biglaw firms? Not worth the risk?

The traditional split is dead. I.e., no on is splitting BB/VE/NRF anymore (and obviously not the national firms). The exception is if you worked at, say, VE as a 1L, they MIGHT let you do a full summer at another firm 2L and then "touchback" with them after. But I think even that is growing less common.

BB's policy for returning 1Ls is minimum 5 weeks at any time during the 2L summer (and minimum 8 weeks for new SAs)

[Big Red]

The growing significance of Pre-OCI means that there are going to be a lot more offers outstanding earlier in the process, so firms are going to have to move more slowly or risk overshooting their class target numbers. If you have outstanding offers that you are considering, it is appropriate (and probably to your advantage) to disclose that to the firm you are waiting on, along with how long you have to respond. Appearing desired is obviously a good thing, and at the very worst it's not going to hurt you.

You should split if that's possible, I just don't know that it is anymore. As mentioned above, I feel like the only times I've seen it is when someone did 1L at the firm they split with.

Does NRF really not split anymore? I saw on Vault they offered 41/42 last year, so I guess they've moved to getting closer to market on offer rate but not allowing the split. Too bad really, I always thought splitting was good for SAs and for firms.

[Pneumonia]

I am trying to decide whether or not I should split. Does splitting increase your odds of being no offered by Texas biglaw firms? Not worth the risk?

The traditional split is dead. I.e., no on is splitting BB/VE/NRF anymore (and obviously not the national firms). The exception is if you worked at, say, VE as a 1L, they MIGHT let you do a full summer at another firm 2L and then "touchback" with them after. But I think even that is growing less common.

BB's policy for returning 1Ls is minimum 5 weeks at any time during the 2L summer (and minimum 8 weeks for new SAs)

Yeah I think it is similar at other firms. Note that the 5 week minimum typically means you have to do the five weeks second half, because if you're working at another big firm, the typical latest start date is only four weeks after most school's exams end.

[Pneumonia]

What are examples of second-half firms that have sub-50% offer rates, if you don't mind sharing?

You should assume that any true "second half" firm has a low offer rate unless they very clearly tell you otherwise.

In Austin, Scott Douglass is rather well-known for taking on more summer than they have offers for. But they're also up front about it. And they let you do a true second-half, which means almost everyone working there has a Big Firm offer already. So it's not a bad thing. Just a different game. Other firms that do second-half only are similar. The upside is that you get paid an extra 10-15k and get to meet more attorneys; and the worst case is that you just accept the offer from your first-half firm, which is what you would've done anyway without a split.

As for larger firms, year-to-year smaller offices of big firms will allow second half splits. NRF in San Antonio, for example. Or HayBoo in Ft. Worth. These and similar offices are so small (or certain groups within them are) that they are hiring less than one new associate per year. So they'll still take a summer or two, but you only get the offer if they really really like you.

Again, anywhere that is still true second-half is likely going to have low offer rates. Think about it: they're taking people that presumably have offers elsewhere (from the first half). So just from a pure numbers game you'd expect +/- 50% of the summer class to choose their first-half firm. (The larger firms have done studies showing that, in fact, candidates are more than 50% likely to return to accept an offer with whichever firm they summered at first. That is part of the reason that true splits have almost altogether ended.)

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone speak to Orrick, their reputation, and their office culture?

[Anonymous User]

The growing significance of Pre-OCI means that there are going to be a lot more offers outstanding earlier in the process, so firms are going to have to move more slowly or risk overshooting their class target numbers. If you have outstanding offers that you are considering, it is appropriate (and probably to your advantage) to disclose that to the firm you are waiting on, along with how long you have to respond. Appearing desired is obviously a good thing, and at the very worst it's not going to hurt you.

You should split if that's possible, I just don't know that it is anymore. As mentioned above, I feel like the only times I've seen it is when someone did 1L at the firm they split with.

Does NRF really not split anymore? I saw on Vault they offered 41/42 last year, so I guess they've moved to getting closer to market on offer rate but not allowing the split. Too bad really, I always thought splitting was good for SAs and for firms.

After how long waiting do you think its appropriate to let them know about outstanding offers?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what Bracewell’s turnaround is?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what Bracewell’s turnaround is?

I interviewed before OCI and it took them about a week. Probably faster now.

[Big Red]

The growing significance of Pre-OCI means that there are going to be a lot more offers outstanding earlier in the process, so firms are going to have to move more slowly or risk overshooting their class target numbers. If you have outstanding offers that you are considering, it is appropriate (and probably to your advantage) to disclose that to the firm you are waiting on, along with how long you have to respond. Appearing desired is obviously a good thing, and at the very worst it's not going to hurt you.

You should split if that's possible, I just don't know that it is anymore. As mentioned above, I feel like the only times I've seen it is when someone did 1L at the firm they split with.

Does NRF really not split anymore? I saw on Vault they offered 41/42 last year, so I guess they've moved to getting closer to market on offer rate but not allowing the split. Too bad really, I always thought splitting was good for SAs and for firms.

After how long waiting do you think its appropriate to let them know about outstanding offers?

Well that depends on the deadline for the offer. I think it's totally fair to say that you would like to respond as soon as possible to it, to make them aware of your timeline, but that you would like to wait on their decision before you make the final call. If you got the offer yesterday and your callback was a week ago, maybe wait another week. I know days feel long during this time in your life but just try and see it from the perspective of the firm, and use your best judgment based on that.

[Anonymous User]

After accepting, how much communication should I expect with my firm between now and next summer?

[Pneumonia]

After accepting, how much communication should I expect with my firm between now and next summer?

Very little.

Some firms will send you a Christmas gift. But not all do. Other than that it isn't uncommon to have radio silence until April. Every year around then this forum swells with threads whose authors worry their offer was a dream. It wasn't. Congrats!

Do make sure to get (and keep) offer letter though. It can be helpful next summer when you're looking for a place to live.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what Bracewell’s turnaround is?

<24 hours out of regular CB.

[Anonymous User]

Do y'all think offer rates is something that we should be more worried about at VE versus KE/LW? Noticed that they no offered two people in 2017.

I would take this into consideration. I saw perfectly fine fellow summers get no-offered. Not because of terrible personality or work product, but because they accidentally ticked off an influential partner or the firm just needed to compensate for over-hiring. There are several firms in Texas that have consistently sub-100% offer rates. All things equal, go with the 100% rate firms.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what Bracewell’s turnaround is?

<24 hours out of regular CB.

How recent was this

[Anonymous User]

Do y'all think offer rates is something that we should be more worried about at VE versus KE/LW? Noticed that they no offered two people in 2017.

I would take this into consideration. I saw perfectly fine fellow summers get no-offered. Not because of terrible personality or work product, but because they accidentally ticked off an influential partner or the firm just needed to compensate for over-hiring. There are several firms in Texas that have consistently sub-100% offer rates. All things equal, go with the 100% rate firms.

Wow, really? Two good summers were no offered at V&E for upsetting a partner? How badly?

I’m super surprised recruiting didn’t kick up a huge fuss, they must know how damaging a sub 100% offer rate is, makes their job much harder in following years.

[Anonymous User]

I wasn't referring to V&E specifically, to clarify. Was at a different firm. There are perfectly good reasons to choose firms that have sub-100% rates. But all else equal, why not go with the 100% firms.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what Bracewell’s turnaround is?

<24 hours out of regular CB.

How recent was this

this week