Anyone on here a Solo? Forum

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Lawworld19

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Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by Lawworld19 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:46 pm

Work at a billable firm, clerked for a judge for the last two years of school.

I take the bar next week.

Hate the billable job. Anyone go solo and it work out?

I am not great at the tech aspects of my job, but I bring in more biz than any other associate revenue wise. (Getting referral business from CPA's etc. I am good at knocking down doors).

I want to go solo pretty bad asap, just wondering if anyone has any advice.

Also, I live in an area that is not saturated, the local court has almost unlimted court appointed work (Older firms take it as a courtesy for the court).
I'm thinking I could be the young gun to take all the BS work none of these bigger older firms really want.

Ultramar vistas

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by Ultramar vistas » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:06 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:Work at a billable firm, clerked for a judge for the last two years of school.

I take the bar next week.

Hate the billable job. Anyone go solo and it work out?

I am not great at the tech aspects of my job, but I bring in more biz than any other associate revenue wise. (Getting referral business from CPA's etc. I am good at knocking down doors).

I want to go solo pretty bad asap, just wondering if anyone has any advice.

Also, I live in an area that is not saturated, the local court has almost unlimted court appointed work (Older firms take it as a courtesy for the court).
I'm thinking I could be the young gun to take all the BS work none of these bigger older firms really want.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=210075

This thread has a ton of knowledge.

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:28 am

Lawworld19 wrote:Work at a billable firm, clerked for a judge for the last two years of school.

I take the bar next week.

Hate the billable job. Anyone go solo and it work out?

I am not great at the tech aspects of my job, but I bring in more biz than any other associate revenue wise. (Getting referral business from CPA's etc. I am good at knocking down doors).

I want to go solo pretty bad asap, just wondering if anyone has any advice.

Also, I live in an area that is not saturated, the local court has almost unlimted court appointed work (Older firms take it as a courtesy for the court).
I'm thinking I could be the young gun to take all the BS work none of these bigger older firms really want.
Can't fall back asleep on this lovely Sunday morning so here it goes. I practiced at a firm for about three years, went and worked for another solo for three months (complete disaster), and then went solo this April. I'm not an expert by any means, but things are going reasonably well thus far (invoicing about $7-8k a month). Some broad pieces of advice you didn’t ask for but I’m typing anyway:

Business Plan: I spent about 18 months tinkering with my business plan before going out on my own. This is definitely overkill and was more related to wasting time at the office at jobs I didn't like, but if you're seriously thinking about this, then look up solo law firm business plan templates. You need to think about a direction, potential clients, practice areas, etc.

Most importantly, this allowed me to hit the ground running. You read a lot of BS about not making money for a couple months because you're setting everything up. BS. Get a business plan and know exactly what computer you will buy, where you will order business cards, what business credit card you will use, what bank you will use, where you'd like to office, etc. Hit the ground running. Time is money.

Personal Finances: If you're a solo, you are your business. Your house has to be in order before you start that business. I had about $20k in cash before going solo. Further, my wife and I structured our financial life so that her income largely covers our household expenses. Having personal stuff in order will prevent you from taking bad work that doesn't pay.

If you need to work for someone else for a year or two to save up a good reserve, it's probably worth it. You'll probably get good experience anyway.

Costs: Get a physical office somewhere, but keep your costs as low as possible. This means office share with other solos, no hiring employees for a while, nothing super fancy, spending a couple days building a website on your own (you won't have clients anyway), etc. I currently work in a 9x9 office without windows, which isn't great, but my fixed costs average $650 a month ($400 on rent) and my office comes with phone, fax, scanner, receptionist, two conference rooms, and a great location.

Get Known: Send out letters to everyone you would send a wedding invitation to. You'll be surprised how many people refer work to you. Also, it sounds like you're good networking, but you want to be known by other lawyers so they don't make your life harder. Join the bar association, Inn of Courts, etc.

Speaking of lawyers, you should be meeting a couple lawyers a week just to run stuff by them. There's too much procedure and local rule and substance to know right out the gate. Just buying beers for other lawyers will save your ass.

Revenue Goal: You need targets, both yearly and daily. I hope to make $100k in revenues in a year, which amounts to $400 per day. After about a month or two, I'm consistently able to meet my daily revenue goal. Things can get overwhelming--running Quicken, reconciling accounts, doing your own scheduling, etc.--but a daily goal keeps the legal work first.

Technology: Use G Suite for email, calendar, etc. Wix/Squarespace are easiest for your website. Avoid calling clients on your cell phone.

Work: My workflow basically consists of a handful of civil litigation cases, doing about 3-4 wills a month, appearance work, and public defender work at two of the area courts (misdemeanors only). The appearance work is great--websites like Docketly, Lawgix, and Court Appearance Professionals pay me $100 just to go somewhere and stand in at a hearing. I make about $1,200-1,600 doing this every month. Public defender work adds up quick and can bring in $1,500-2,000 easy. Throw in 5 civil litigation cases, 3-4 wills, a couple small letters here and there, and I invoice a pretty reliable $7-8k a month.

Note, too, that I have also stumbled on 3 pretty good contingency cases in just three months. Those settlements will basically just be a bonus to my steady income, and I may end up doing even better than I anticipated.

References:
Book - How to Start and Build a Law Practice
Book - Solo by Choice
Website - Lawyerist
Website - MyShingle

If I've done this right for a year or so, I'll write up a big long post. But I'm still a relative noob, so take everything I said with a grain of salt. Good luck to you.

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:43 am

Advertising? Where, how much? Best results are from ____? Anything else in ref to advertising....let 'er rip.

Lawworld19

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:16 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:Work at a billable firm, clerked for a judge for the last two years of school.

I take the bar next week.

Hate the billable job. Anyone go solo and it work out?

I am not great at the tech aspects of my job, but I bring in more biz than any other associate revenue wise. (Getting referral business from CPA's etc. I am good at knocking down doors).

I want to go solo pretty bad asap, just wondering if anyone has any advice.

Also, I live in an area that is not saturated, the local court has almost unlimted court appointed work (Older firms take it as a courtesy for the court).
I'm thinking I could be the young gun to take all the BS work none of these bigger older firms really want.
Can't fall back asleep on this lovely Sunday morning so here it goes. I practiced at a firm for about three years, went and worked for another solo for three months (complete disaster), and then went solo this April. I'm not an expert by any means, but things are going reasonably well thus far (invoicing about $7-8k a month). Some broad pieces of advice you didn’t ask for but I’m typing anyway:

Business Plan: I spent about 18 months tinkering with my business plan before going out on my own. This is definitely overkill and was more related to wasting time at the office at jobs I didn't like, but if you're seriously thinking about this, then look up solo law firm business plan templates. You need to think about a direction, potential clients, practice areas, etc.

Most importantly, this allowed me to hit the ground running. You read a lot of BS about not making money for a couple months because you're setting everything up. BS. Get a business plan and know exactly what computer you will buy, where you will order business cards, what business credit card you will use, what bank you will use, where you'd like to office, etc. Hit the ground running. Time is money.

Personal Finances: If you're a solo, you are your business. Your house has to be in order before you start that business. I had about $20k in cash before going solo. Further, my wife and I structured our financial life so that her income largely covers our household expenses. Having personal stuff in order will prevent you from taking bad work that doesn't pay.

If you need to work for someone else for a year or two to save up a good reserve, it's probably worth it. You'll probably get good experience anyway.

Costs: Get a physical office somewhere, but keep your costs as low as possible. This means office share with other solos, no hiring employees for a while, nothing super fancy, spending a couple days building a website on your own (you won't have clients anyway), etc. I currently work in a 9x9 office without windows, which isn't great, but my fixed costs average $650 a month ($400 on rent) and my office comes with phone, fax, scanner, receptionist, two conference rooms, and a great location.

Get Known: Send out letters to everyone you would send a wedding invitation to. You'll be surprised how many people refer work to you. Also, it sounds like you're good networking, but you want to be known by other lawyers so they don't make your life harder. Join the bar association, Inn of Courts, etc.

Speaking of lawyers, you should be meeting a couple lawyers a week just to run stuff by them. There's too much procedure and local rule and substance to know right out the gate. Just buying beers for other lawyers will save your ass.

Revenue Goal: You need targets, both yearly and daily. I hope to make $100k in revenues in a year, which amounts to $400 per day. After about a month or two, I'm consistently able to meet my daily revenue goal. Things can get overwhelming--running Quicken, reconciling accounts, doing your own scheduling, etc.--but a daily goal keeps the legal work first.

Technology: Use G Suite for email, calendar, etc. Wix/Squarespace are easiest for your website. Avoid calling clients on your cell phone.

Work: My workflow basically consists of a handful of civil litigation cases, doing about 3-4 wills a month, appearance work, and public defender work at two of the area courts (misdemeanors only). The appearance work is great--websites like Docketly, Lawgix, and Court Appearance Professionals pay me $100 just to go somewhere and stand in at a hearing. I make about $1,200-1,600 doing this every month. Public defender work adds up quick and can bring in $1,500-2,000 easy. Throw in 5 civil litigation cases, 3-4 wills, a couple small letters here and there, and I invoice a pretty reliable $7-8k a month.

Note, too, that I have also stumbled on 3 pretty good contingency cases in just three months. Those settlements will basically just be a bonus to my steady income, and I may end up doing even better than I anticipated.

References:
Book - How to Start and Build a Law Practice
Book - Solo by Choice
Website - Lawyerist
Website - MyShingle

If I've done this right for a year or so, I'll write up a big long post. But I'm still a relative noob, so take everything I said with a grain of salt. Good luck to you.
I sincerely appreciate the response. So far I only have 9,500$ saved. One question, I hear many people say it is hard to survive as a general p. In the beginning I hear it is tempting to take anything and everything, but to pick a specialty and run with it and market it hard. Do you agree?

I also have a huge advantage. The judge I worked for recently retired and offered to help me get it off the ground. He was a city councilman in the city and the local judge. We have a very close relationship, which I'm sure will help. I am thinking of pushing the story to local newspapers of old law clerk opens local firm with help of his old boss, judge so and so. I am going to use every angle I can.

I also like to the idea of contacting other local attorneys. In my state you can solicit attorneys directly. I can explain who I am, that I worked in x court and I am happy to take overflow work, be of any assistance possible. Go out to lunch with them.

How hard has it been to collect on invoices? Or is that all about wisely picking clients? I hear in crim defense from some of my buddies it can be a royal pain in the ass.

How much is malpractice insurance? We don't have a req under out ethical rules in my state but obviously I will not go into business without the proper insurance.

How much do you pay for medical insurance. (Large concern of mine).
I am thinking of saving 20K just like you then bailing. I hate being under the thumb and adhering to others pointless rules, etc. I do best when I can dream and push how I see fit.

In my head if it doesn't work out, I don't have kids or a mortgage. I can just wrap the cases up and get a job.

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Lawworld19

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:15 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:Work at a billable firm, clerked for a judge for the last two years of school.

I take the bar next week.

Hate the billable job. Anyone go solo and it work out?

I am not great at the tech aspects of my job, but I bring in more biz than any other associate revenue wise. (Getting referral business from CPA's etc. I am good at knocking down doors).

I want to go solo pretty bad asap, just wondering if anyone has any advice.

Also, I live in an area that is not saturated, the local court has almost unlimted court appointed work (Older firms take it as a courtesy for the court).
I'm thinking I could be the young gun to take all the BS work none of these bigger older firms really want.
Can't fall back asleep on this lovely Sunday morning so here it goes. I practiced at a firm for about three years, went and worked for another solo for three months (complete disaster), and then went solo this April. I'm not an expert by any means, but things are going reasonably well thus far (invoicing about $7-8k a month). Some broad pieces of advice you didn’t ask for but I’m typing anyway:

Business Plan: I spent about 18 months tinkering with my business plan before going out on my own. This is definitely overkill and was more related to wasting time at the office at jobs I didn't like, but if you're seriously thinking about this, then look up solo law firm business plan templates. You need to think about a direction, potential clients, practice areas, etc.

Most importantly, this allowed me to hit the ground running. You read a lot of BS about not making money for a couple months because you're setting everything up. BS. Get a business plan and know exactly what computer you will buy, where you will order business cards, what business credit card you will use, what bank you will use, where you'd like to office, etc. Hit the ground running. Time is money.

Personal Finances: If you're a solo, you are your business. Your house has to be in order before you start that business. I had about $20k in cash before going solo. Further, my wife and I structured our financial life so that her income largely covers our household expenses. Having personal stuff in order will prevent you from taking bad work that doesn't pay.

If you need to work for someone else for a year or two to save up a good reserve, it's probably worth it. You'll probably get good experience anyway.

Costs: Get a physical office somewhere, but keep your costs as low as possible. This means office share with other solos, no hiring employees for a while, nothing super fancy, spending a couple days building a website on your own (you won't have clients anyway), etc. I currently work in a 9x9 office without windows, which isn't great, but my fixed costs average $650 a month ($400 on rent) and my office comes with phone, fax, scanner, receptionist, two conference rooms, and a great location.

Get Known: Send out letters to everyone you would send a wedding invitation to. You'll be surprised how many people refer work to you. Also, it sounds like you're good networking, but you want to be known by other lawyers so they don't make your life harder. Join the bar association, Inn of Courts, etc.

Speaking of lawyers, you should be meeting a couple lawyers a week just to run stuff by them. There's too much procedure and local rule and substance to know right out the gate. Just buying beers for other lawyers will save your ass.

Revenue Goal: You need targets, both yearly and daily. I hope to make $100k in revenues in a year, which amounts to $400 per day. After about a month or two, I'm consistently able to meet my daily revenue goal. Things can get overwhelming--running Quicken, reconciling accounts, doing your own scheduling, etc.--but a daily goal keeps the legal work first.

Technology: Use G Suite for email, calendar, etc. Wix/Squarespace are easiest for your website. Avoid calling clients on your cell phone.

Work: My workflow basically consists of a handful of civil litigation cases, doing about 3-4 wills a month, appearance work, and public defender work at two of the area courts (misdemeanors only). The appearance work is great--websites like Docketly, Lawgix, and Court Appearance Professionals pay me $100 just to go somewhere and stand in at a hearing. I make about $1,200-1,600 doing this every month. Public defender work adds up quick and can bring in $1,500-2,000 easy. Throw in 5 civil litigation cases, 3-4 wills, a couple small letters here and there, and I invoice a pretty reliable $7-8k a month.

Note, too, that I have also stumbled on 3 pretty good contingency cases in just three months. Those settlements will basically just be a bonus to my steady income, and I may end up doing even better than I anticipated.

References:
Book - How to Start and Build a Law Practice
Book - Solo by Choice
Website - Lawyerist
Website - MyShingle

If I've done this right for a year or so, I'll write up a big long post. But I'm still a relative noob, so take everything I said with a grain of salt. Good luck to you.

Also, do you use thumbtack?

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Advertising? Where, how much? Best results are from ____? Anything else in ref to advertising....let 'er rip.
My advertising budget consists of my website ($18/month), 500 business cards from VistaPrint ($40ish), and the cost of stamps to send letters to friends/family. I may put a small ad in the church bulletin and my local paper, which are both minimal.

Big brand advertising (Ad Words) that actually works costs too much when you are just starting.

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:08 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:Also, do you use thumbtack?
No.

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:29 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:One question, I hear many people say it is hard to survive as a general p. In the beginning I hear it is tempting to take anything and everything, but to pick a specialty and run with it and market it hard. Do you agree?
There's a difference between how you practice and what you take on. I market civil litigation, real estate litigation, and estate planning; but accept other shit (license suspensions, public defender, etc.). License suspensions can bring in $2,500 to $3,000 and it's comically easy. Hopefully soon enough the civil litigation work will be enough on its own, but I'd be dumb to turn this other stuff down.

That said, definitely turn down shitty cases. This is why you want to run things by other lawyers. Constantly. This is also why you maybe want to get a little experience first.
Lawworld19 wrote:I also have a huge advantage. The judge I worked for recently retired and offered to help me get it off the ground. He was a city councilman in the city and the local judge. We have a very close relationship, which I'm sure will help. I am thinking of pushing the story to local newspapers of old law clerk opens local firm with help of his old boss, judge so and so. I am going to use every angle I can.
This is a great relationship to have. I have multiple attorneys who refer me a lot of work. BUT, I wouldn't market this. I don't see the angle from a general public point of view.
Lawworld19 wrote:I also like to the idea of contacting other local attorneys. In my state you can solicit attorneys directly. I can explain who I am, that I worked in x court and I am happy to take overflow work, be of any assistance possible. Go out to lunch with them.
I'm not talking soliciting. I'm talking going to events, meeting 1-2 attorneys, following up with coffee, and making genuine friendships. Your best bet here is to target other solos who do other shit. I refer complicated estate planning stuff out all the time, they refer stuff back to me.
Lawworld19 wrote:How hard has it been to collect on invoices? Or is that all about wisely picking clients? I hear in crim defense from some of my buddies it can be a royal pain in the ass.
.
Cash up front. Always. I get a minimum $500 retainer. I don't start working until I get it. If you know you will blow through that retainer in a week then just ask for $1,000. If they can't pay it then tell them to move on.

So far, clients have paid 34 of 36 invoices. I think one of the most important things you can do is a draft a good invoice. Make every entry detailed and understandable for the client, and use persuasive language (e.g., "Telephone conference with opposing counsel re their baseless defenses to claim; advise that we will file suit if they don't offer settlement within 7 days"). Include a cover letter explaining why you did the work that's on the invoice, next steps you are taking, and thanking them for supporting your local business.
Lawworld19 wrote:How much is malpractice insurance? We don't have a req under out ethical rules in my state but obviously I will not go into business without the proper insurance. How much do you pay for medical insurance. (Large concern of mine).
Malpractice runs bout $100/month for noobs here.

And I'm on my wife's healthcare, so I can't help you there. My guess is you can get it on the exchange for $500-600/month. It should be tax deductible for you, though.
Lawworld19 wrote:I am thinking of saving 20K just like you then bailing. I hate being under the thumb and adhering to others pointless rules, etc. I do best when I can dream and push how I see fit.

In my head if it doesn't work out, I don't have kids or a mortgage. I can just wrap the cases up and get a job.
Good plan. I hated firm life. Bill bill bill bill and then all these rules. Complete inability to make decisions or change the way things are run. Constantly kissing ass and making sure you keep track of how Steve, Scott, Katie, and Dave want their work done.

As a solo you are switching hats all the time, which I think keeps things fresh. Design your own letterhead, business cards, website. Manage your accounting. Take a day to run and get office supplies, deposit checks, golf with an attorney, etc. Draft customized invoices and letters.

It's busy, but it's a lot of fun so far.

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ruski

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by ruski » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:46 pm

I feel like it would be much easier to find some old solo and work for him and inherit his book of business, targeting anyone 60+. I was considering doing this and sounds way easier to have a thriving practice, especially if you aren't the networking type. has anyone tried this route?

run26.2

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by run26.2 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:58 pm

Solid posts, AVBucks. Thanks.

ruski

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by ruski » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:15 pm

with respect to referring working out, can you request a referral fee or is this not done? what if the other lawyer never refers work back to you?

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:08 pm

ruski wrote:I feel like it would be much easier to find some old solo and work for him and inherit his book of business, targeting anyone 60+. I was considering doing this and sounds way easier to have a thriving practice, especially if you aren't the networking type. has anyone tried this route?
I left from a firm to working with another solo, having your exact thought--inherit their book, profit off their relationships, etc. I met with 3-4 people beforehand to get a feel for this solo's reputation, and nobody really knew her. I was sick of firm life and made the plunge anyway.

Not to be dramatic, but it was the biggest mistake of my career, arguably life. I came to find out she had 5 associates in two years, that she did unethical shit, that she was never there, etc. My life sucked. Hard. Really hard. I lasted three months and put in my notice.

All this to say: make sure you vet the hell out of this before you do it. Get 3-4 positive recommendations and make sure they are a well-established attorney.
Last edited by AVBucks4239 on Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Anyone on here a Solo?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:11 pm

ruski wrote:with respect to referring working out, can you request a referral fee or is this not done? what if the other lawyer never refers work back to you?
Depends on what it is. If it's a contingency fee matter then you are okay requesting a referral fee. If it's something you just don't handle, then refer a couple attorneys without request a referral fee, and specifically instruct that prospective client to make sure they let the other attorney know you referred them. They will then refer you stuff in your wheelhouse.

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