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Anyone have any (speculative) idea of how often pre-OCI callbacks lead to an offer? I guess my question is this: once the firm invests the time and money in you for a callback, is it more yours to lose, or is it still a crapshoot?

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any (speculative) idea of how often pre-OCI callbacks lead to an offer? I guess my question is this: once the firm invests the time and money in you for a callback, is it more yours to lose, or is it still a crapshoot?

You can figure it out by thinking it through from the firm's position. Pre-OCI callbacks only rarely lead to the pre-OCI acceptances that would really benefit a firm by allowing it to carefully manage its yield rate going into OCI.

So the only real extra pressure a firm has to give offers pre-OCI is that they don't yet know what their yield rate is going to be during OCI, and they don't want to inadvertently not give an offer to someone who, it later turns out, would have been amongst their top choices of people who accepted callback offers.

It's exactly the same pressure law schools have during rolling admissions - they all claim applying early doesn't matter, but of course there is that little bit of extra stress early in the process where law schools are keen to lock in good candidates.

Same deal here. Small bump, but marginal. Also - it isn't a crapshoot. Be prepared, be nice, be normal, and you'll get the job.

It really depends on the firm. The idea is to offer kids before OCI, so the 28 day NALP thing can roll, and they'll have a better handle and idea on their yield and how many offers to give out for actual OCI. The whole thing violates the spirit of the NALP agreement and all, but I guess that's what happens when it's kind of a race to the bottom for firms, schools, and students alike. At this rate, firms will be offering based on 1st semester grades. Oh well, not my problem anymore I guess.

It's yours to lose. All of these callbacks are yours to lose. These firms want you to be good, smart and likeable. They don't want to waste time and money interviewing a pile of indistinguishable 20 something year olds anyhow.

malibustacy wrote:It really depends on the firm. The idea is to offer kids before OCI, so the 28 day NALP thing can roll, and they'll have a better handle and idea on their yield and how many offers to give out for actual OCI. The whole thing violates the spirit of the NALP agreement and all, but I guess that's what happens when it's kind of a race to the bottom for firms, schools, and students alike. At this rate, firms will be offering based on 1st semester grades. Oh well, not my problem anymore I guess.

It's yours to lose. All of these callbacks are yours to lose. These firms want you to be good, smart and likeable. They don't want to waste time and money interviewing a pile of indistinguishable 20 something year olds anyhow.

Can't speak to the rest, but the NALP thing isn't really accurate, at least at all firms. My pre-OCI (V10, if that's relevant) offer started running 28 days *after the first day of my school's OCI*, not the day I received the offer. OCI screener->CB->offer turnaround can be super quick, so they're picking up maybe a few marginal days, but not much. I was offered the first week of July, so...I got to sit on my offer for almost two months. And usually you can extend these things. And many pre-OCI candidates are actually the *least* likely to accept, because they have the best grades and thus have the most options.

On balance, I don't think this helps yield, honestly - it's a way to screen people based on grades/etc when many, if not most top schools have a lottery system designed to prevent firms from doing so. You're Cravath, let's say, and you get an email from someone in the top 15% of the class at NYU who wants to interview with you. She's the person you're looking to interview at OCI anyway, but because of the lottery, many of the people who bid you at this candidate's school are near auto-dings. Why not interview her now?

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any (speculative) idea of how often pre-OCI callbacks lead to an offer? I guess my question is this: once the firm invests the time and money in you for a callback, is it more yours to lose, or is it still a crapshoot?

Not true -- I interviewed at a firm, got a callback (flight, hotel, etc paid), no offer. Apparently the firm had about 15-20 callbacks for one position, kept rejecting everyone, despite the costs of doing so.

Anonymous User wrote:

malibustacy wrote:It really depends on the firm. The idea is to offer kids before OCI, so the 28 day NALP thing can roll, and they'll have a better handle and idea on their yield and how many offers to give out for actual OCI. The whole thing violates the spirit of the NALP agreement and all, but I guess that's what happens when it's kind of a race to the bottom for firms, schools, and students alike. At this rate, firms will be offering based on 1st semester grades. Oh well, not my problem anymore I guess.

It's yours to lose. All of these callbacks are yours to lose. These firms want you to be good, smart and likeable. They don't want to waste time and money interviewing a pile of indistinguishable 20 something year olds anyhow.

Can't speak to the rest, but the NALP thing isn't really accurate, at least at all firms. My pre-OCI (V10, if that's relevant) offer started running 28 days *after the first day of my school's OCI*, not the day I received the offer. OCI screener->CB->offer turnaround can be super quick, so they're picking up maybe a few marginal days, but not much. I was offered the first week of July, so...I got to sit on my offer for almost two months. And usually you can extend these things. And many pre-OCI candidates are actually the *least* likely to accept, because they have the best grades and thus have the most options.

On balance, I don't think this helps yield, honestly - it's a way to screen people based on grades/etc when many, if not most top schools have a lottery system designed to prevent firms from doing so. You're Cravath, let's say, and you get an email from someone in the top 15% of the class at NYU who wants to interview with you. She's the person you're looking to interview at OCI anyway, but because of the lottery, many of the people who bid you at this candidate's school are near auto-dings. Why not interview her now?

I can attest to the comment above. My pre-oci offer had the same wording. I have until 28 days after the start of my school's OCI to accept.
Pre-OCi is a way for firms to nab competitive candidates before other firms have the opportunity to. All firms are fighting over the best and brightest to fill their summer classes and if they can get those individuals before a formal OCI where individuals interview for 20+ firms, it is a win.

Regarding acceptance timing, it's in the NALP guidelines that the 28 day clock starts at OCI, not at the time of the offer.

"If an employer makes an offer to a law student candidate not previously employed by that employer before the beginning of the law school's on-campus interview program, that offer should not expire until at least 28 days following the first day of the law school's on-campus interview program. Employers should contact the appropriate law school(s) to determine these dates."

Does anyone know if former NALP firms typically follow the NALP timing guidelines anyways?