Should I do litigation or transactional work? Forum

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Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:03 pm

I am kind of dumping my thoughts in here, but will attempt to make them coherent.

I'm an above median rising 2L at a lower t13. I really want to work in big law and become partner. I know this is improbable, but that's the goal. Would also be happy making six figures at an in-house job. As you can see, I am very money driven. Prestige matters to me too. So I'm probably in law for the wrong reasons and will be chastised, but I'm trying to be honest.

I went to law school wanting to do big law and thinking I'd do litigation. I don't have a business background. I worked for a couple of years in marketing. Reading, writing, and oral arguments are my strong suit yadda yadda. However, I didn't make the moot court team.I did really enjoy my legal writing classes, but was only average in them grade-wise. I did below average in civil procedure.

Currently I'm doing a summer internship with a flyover state's AG's office in their appellate department. I strongly dislike it. It's almost exclusively bluebooking and proofreading, and I can't stand or understand the procedure behind cases. I spend zero time working with people, which is something I'm finding that I really miss. I do enjoy it when I write briefs though. Trials look like a lot of fun, but I know trials are very uncommon in big law lit.

Speaking of big law, job prospects seem to be far worse for litigators. Getting your foot in the door for a big law firm to do lit requires grades higher than mine in the desirable markets. Less litigation partners are made than corporate partners.

Law school is so litigation driven that it's hard to figure out whether I want to do transaction work or not though. And I fear that I'm going to tell firms I want to do corporate work just so I can get a big law job, and then end up finding out I fucking hate the work or something to that effect. However, when I speak with attorneys who do corporate work on the phone, it does sound interesting. And I think my personality type might be better suited for transaction work (extroverted, people-pleaser, etc.). But there are elements of litigation, like writing briefs and trial, which appeal to me.

What should I be thinking about over these next couple of months? How can I learn more about what I want to do?

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:22 pm

If you're bidding exclusively NYC and are a decent interviewer, you should get a few callbacks with your school/grade range, even if you tell them you want to do lit. But if you want to tell firms that you want to do corporate, you can always do that too and just select litigation at the end of your summer. Firms know that rising 2Ls don't know much about the distinction between corporate or litigation and what they fully entail, so don't stress too much. Just get a summer position and once you're doing the work you'll have a better idea on what interests you.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:32 pm

It’s fine to be money and prestige driven. I just don’t understand why you went to law school if your end goal is money and prestige.

Anyway, junior level corporate work is mind numbingly boring. A high school student can probably do half of the work required of juniors. If you can stick it out, the work gets interesting. But you don’t seem like the patient type.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you're bidding exclusively NYC and are a decent interviewer, you should get a few callbacks with your school/grade range, even if you tell them you want to do lit. But if you want to tell firms that you want to do corporate, you can always do that too and just select litigation at the end of your summer. Firms know that rising 2Ls don't know much about the distinction between corporate or litigation and what they fully entail, so don't stress too much. Just get a summer position and once you're doing the work you'll have a better idea on what interests you.
Cool. Probably will say corporate during OCI and see how things develop then. Sounds like I may be putting the cart before the horse.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:23 pm

I can offer you my experience:

I went into my summer thinking I wanted to do litigation work. During the summer, I did litigation work and realized that--although I loved that type of work during law school (drafting motions, researching, etc.)--when faced with the pressure of the billable hour, I hated it. I was able to do the work, but I hated having to do it with the time constraints. I'm a perfectionist, and it just didn't work with my personality. For example, I just couldn't stop researching certain issues and often spent time off the clock looking things up because I always felt there was something else out there.

On the other hand, I loved transactional work. While transaction work had its own pressures, it better suited my perfectionist nature (for lack of a better word). I was just happier while doing transactional work. I eventually even found it exciting--even the mind-numbing part of it (which is a big part in the beginning). However, I will tell you that in my experience the litigators are the extroverted ones. Transactional lawyers at my firm are quieter, more focused on their work, etc.

Basically, if you're the type of person who is good under the type of stress I stated above, then I think you'll be fine in litigation.

Also, for what it's worth, my market (California major market) is almost all litigators. When I interviewed, I said I was leaning towards litigation because that's what I had the most experience in, but that I was curious about transactional work as well. Additionally, I was told by a partner at my firm that becoming a transaction partner is easier overall. Again, this is all my opinion and based on my personal experience.

Since you still have time, try to take a few transactional-focused classes. It will give you an idea of whether you like the area, and can help demonstrate to firms that you are actually open to transactional work.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It’s fine to be money and prestige driven. I just don’t understand why you went to law school if your end goal is money and prestige.

Anyway, junior level corporate work is mind numbingly boring. A high school student can probably do half of the work required of juniors. If you can stick it out, the work gets interesting. But you don’t seem like the patient type.
Not going to address your first comment since I don't want to derail this thread haha.

Alright, so entry-level work for both sides is going to be boring. How do I figure out if I have an aptitude or interest in the higher-level work?

You'd be surprised with my level of patience.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by worklifewhat » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It’s fine to be money and prestige driven. I just don’t understand why you went to law school if your end goal is money and prestige.

Anyway, junior level corporate work is mind numbingly boring. A high school student can probably do half of the work required of juniors. If you can stick it out, the work gets interesting. But you don’t seem like the patient type.
Not going to address your first comment since I don't want to derail this thread haha.

Alright, so entry-level work for BOTH SIDES is going to be boring. How do I figure out if I have an aptitude or interest in the higher-level work?

You'd be surprised with my level of patience.
I wouldn’t say entry level work for lit is super boring. Doc review is boring but a lot of that isn’t done by biglaw attorneys, at least not at my firm. You do some doc review, of course, but that’s not how you’re likely to spend a majority of your time. As a first/second year you’ll likely draft motions on your own, though they’ll be reviewed by someone senior; prep for depositions and witness interviews; and do tons of research.

You THINK you know what you want but until you’ve worked in biglaw you can’t really trust what you THINK you want at this point. Do you want to be happy or do you want to make money at whatever cost? If the former, then figure out what you would ENJOY, not what you think increases your odds of making partner at a place that you might come to dread a year after joining.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:00 pm

Do transactional. Much more opportunities to interact with in-house folks and business people and in much better circumstances (trying to get a deal done vs. being sued/explaining why they might lose a motion/prepping them for depositons for 4 hours a day). Litigation is undergoing major changes at the biglaw level and may eventually become a specialist practice area at many biglaw firms with a lot more work done by 100% lit focused boutiques where people are super jazzed about litigation. As a result, firms are making many more corporate partners or partners in corporate specialist groups like benefits, tax, antitrust. The exit options are night and day, with litigators mostly going to do litigation at smaller firms or for the government, while transactional attorneys can go in-house (with a wider variety of options depending on the industry you have worked in or the deals you have done).

The only reason I would be a little wary of transactional work is that the deadlines are much tighter than in litigation.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:14 pm

As a mid-level-to-senior big law corporate associate, my experience has been as follows: transactional work starts out mind-numbingly boring, gets better for a little while, and then quickly becomes mind-numbingly boring again with the added pressures of increased responsibility.

Clients are too afraid to stray from "market" to really do anything that interesting the vast majority of the time. Most documents start from precedents which were already heavily negotiated, which leaves little actual lawyering to do except to argue over terms that have a 99.9% chance of never mattering and even if they do, you can be quite confident that the parties will just come to another agreement rather than relying on the language that you volleyed back and forth with opposing counsel for two hours at three o'clock in the morning. For the remainder, you basically act as the messenger for the real negotiations taking place on the commercial side.

Transactional work does not reward creativity and it is not that intellectually challenging. What it does require is lots of time and an excruciating level of attention to detail. If you are intellectually curious in the slightest, you need to find a creative outlet ASAP or this job will drive you absolutely crazy. Big dollar values can be exhilarating for the first few closings, but you quickly become numb to the stakes.

The hours in transactional law are wildly unpredictable (unless you've got a closing, then they simply become 24/7) and everything is needed "as soon as possible," even though that's almost never actually the case, but is rather imposing deadlines for the sake of having a deadline. Many of your clients will be quite inconsiderate of your time and have unrealistic expectations on timing almost every step of the way (only to suddenly go MIA when you need their input).

This may come across as bitter or as an unnecessarily dour view of the corporate side of the profession, but you need to know what you're getting yourself into at the outset. The work is not fun, is occasionally bearable, and often miserable.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:I can offer you my experience:

I went into my summer thinking I wanted to do litigation work. During the summer, I did litigation work and realized that--although I loved that type of work during law school (drafting motions, researching, etc.)--when faced with the pressure of the billable hour, I hated it. I was able to do the work, but I hated having to do it with the time constraints. I'm a perfectionist, and it just didn't work with my personality. For example, I just couldn't stop researching certain issues and often spent time off the clock looking things up because I always felt there was something else out there.

On the other hand, I loved transactional work. While transaction work had its own pressures, it better suited my perfectionist nature (for lack of a better word). I was just happier while doing transactional work. I eventually even found it exciting--even the mind-numbing part of it (which is a big part in the beginning). However, I will tell you that in my experience the litigators are the extroverted ones. Transactional lawyers at my firm are quieter, more focused on their work, etc.

Basically, if you're the type of person who is good under the type of stress I stated above, then I think you'll be fine in litigation.

Also, for what it's worth, my market (California major market) is almost all litigators. When I interviewed, I said I was leaning towards litigation because that's what I had the most experience in, but that I was curious about transactional work as well. Additionally, I was told by a partner at my firm that becoming a transaction partner is easier overall. Again, this is all my opinion and based on my personal experience.

Since you still have time, try to take a few transactional-focused classes. It will give you an idea of whether you like the area, and can help demonstrate to firms that you are actually open to transactional work.
Cool, great post! Your insight is much appreciated.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:50 am

worklifewhat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It’s fine to be money and prestige driven. I just don’t understand why you went to law school if your end goal is money and prestige.

Anyway, junior level corporate work is mind numbingly boring. A high school student can probably do half of the work required of juniors. If you can stick it out, the work gets interesting. But you don’t seem like the patient type.
Not going to address your first comment since I don't want to derail this thread haha.

Alright, so entry-level work for BOTH SIDES is going to be boring. How do I figure out if I have an aptitude or interest in the higher-level work?

You'd be surprised with my level of patience.
I wouldn’t say entry level work for lit is super boring. Doc review is boring but a lot of that isn’t done by biglaw attorneys, at least not at my firm. You do some doc review, of course, but that’s not how you’re likely to spend a majority of your time. As a first/second year you’ll likely draft motions on your own, though they’ll be reviewed by someone senior; prep for depositions and witness interviews; and do tons of research.

You THINK you know what you want but until you’ve worked in biglaw you can’t really trust what you THINK you want at this point. Do you want to be happy or do you want to make money at whatever cost? If the former, then figure out what you would ENJOY, not what you think increases your odds of making partner at a place that you might come to dread a year after joining.
The last paragraph is fair, and is what makes life difficult. We make decisions on what we think we want, but obviously this has its limitations. But I can only say what I think I want now. I can plan for what I might want one day, but that is a tough game to play as well.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:Do transactional. Much more opportunities to interact with in-house folks and business people and in much better circumstances (trying to get a deal done vs. being sued/explaining why they might lose a motion/prepping them for depositons for 4 hours a day). Litigation is undergoing major changes at the biglaw level and may eventually become a specialist practice area at many biglaw firms with a lot more work done by 100% lit focused boutiques where people are super jazzed about litigation. As a result, firms are making many more corporate partners or partners in corporate specialist groups like benefits, tax, antitrust. The exit options are night and day, with litigators mostly going to do litigation at smaller firms or for the government, while transactional attorneys can go in-house (with a wider variety of options depending on the industry you have worked in or the deals you have done).

The only reason I would be a little wary of transactional work is that the deadlines are much tighter than in litigation.
This kind of thinking is what's been driving my change of heart as of late.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:As a mid-level-to-senior big law corporate associate, my experience has been as follows: transactional work starts out mind-numbingly boring, gets better for a little while, and then quickly becomes mind-numbingly boring again with the added pressures of increased responsibility.

Clients are too afraid to stray from "market" to really do anything that interesting the vast majority of the time. Most documents start from precedents which were already heavily negotiated, which leaves little actual lawyering to do except to argue over terms that have a 99.9% chance of never mattering and even if they do, you can be quite confident that the parties will just come to another agreement rather than relying on the language that you volleyed back and forth with opposing counsel for two hours at three o'clock in the morning. For the remainder, you basically act as the messenger for the real negotiations taking place on the commercial side.

Transactional work does not reward creativity and it is not that intellectually challenging. What it does require is lots of time and an excruciating level of attention to detail. If you are intellectually curious in the slightest, you need to find a creative outlet ASAP or this job will drive you absolutely crazy. Big dollar values can be exhilarating for the first few closings, but you quickly become numb to the stakes.

The hours in transactional law are wildly unpredictable (unless you've got a closing, then they simply become 24/7) and everything is needed "as soon as possible," even though that's almost never actually the case, but is rather imposing deadlines for the sake of having a deadline. Many of your clients will be quite inconsiderate of your time and have unrealistic expectations on timing almost every step of the way (only to suddenly go MIA when you need their input).

This may come across as bitter or as an unnecessarily dour view of the corporate side of the profession, but you need to know what you're getting yourself into at the outset. The work is not fun, is occasionally bearable, and often miserable.
And this kind of thinking is what scares me of my change of heart.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:55 pm

You can do both during your summer. Median grades at a T13 should get you a biglaw SA position. Just go to a firm that has a decent reputation in both transactional and litigation and work on both during the summer (although what insight summer work imparts is up for debate) and see which you like more.

Re: exit options - I'm really not sure why it's spoken about as a negative that Lit exit options are...more Lit. If that's what you enjoy doing, why do you want an exit that's a complete career change? People in corporate (me) want to exit to something else because they don't actually want to be corporate lawyers (because it's an awful job). If you like litigating, congrats, you've found a career you like. Don't worry about the "exits."

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by nealric » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:36 pm

Any interest in specialty groups (Tax, ERISA, Regulatory)?. There's so many deal lawyers and litigators that it can be extremely hard to distinguish yourself. The nice thing about specialty practices is that you are automatically set apart as having a special skill set.

Setting aside what you tell the interviewers at OCI, I think the specifics of the firm's practice group will also matter. Being a cog in Skadden's M&A machine is going to be a different experience from a small group doing specialized fund work. Likewise, a small employment litigation group will likely be very different from going to Quinn.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by cheaptilts » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:41 pm

As a litigator who enjoys litigation, I too have never understood why lateraling to a smaller firm (where oftentimes you still make good to great to fantastic money, with more responsibily and more creativity than you’ll find in a biglaw firm), or going into going into government is seen as a “not ideal” exit option for many.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:34 pm

cheaptilts wrote:As a litigator who enjoys litigation, I too have never understood why lateraling to a smaller firm (where oftentimes you still make good to great to fantastic money, with more responsibily and more creativity than you’ll find in a biglaw firm), or going into going into government is seen as a “not ideal” exit option for many.
I think the key is “enjoys litigation.” It’s hard to know going in whether that will be the case. Even when you are a couple years in, it’s difficult to know exactly whether you like litigation and just hate the more “biglaw” aspects of the job or whether your frustration stems from certain aspects of litigation itself.

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Re: Should I do litigation or transactional work?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
cheaptilts wrote:As a litigator who enjoys litigation, I too have never understood why lateraling to a smaller firm (where oftentimes you still make good to great to fantastic money, with more responsibily and more creativity than you’ll find in a biglaw firm), or going into going into government is seen as a “not ideal” exit option for many.
I think the key is “enjoys litigation.” It’s hard to know going in whether that will be the case. Even when you are a couple years in, it’s difficult to know exactly whether you like litigation and just hate the more “biglaw” aspects of the job or whether your frustration stems from certain aspects of litigation itself.
This may be a dumb question, but what are the contentious aspects of transactional law?

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