URM Chances at Biglaw

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When should I start mass mailing?

June
4
67%
July
2
33%
August
0
No votes
Early Sept.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 6

Anonymous User
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URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:50 pm

About me:
- Below median (around 3.0) GPA at T20
- Worked at a firm 1L / Government 2L
- URM with decent work experience before law school (Government / Politics)
- Current job will not end with an offer
- No journal but did year long clinic and continuing with it next year (advanced clinic)

I'm curious about: (1) is biglaw possible at this point applying as a 3L and (2) how much does URM play into things?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325878
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:About me:
- Belew median (around 3.0) GPA at T20
- Worked at a firm 1L / Government 2L
- URM with decent work experience before law school (Government / Politics)
- Current job will not end with an offer
- No journal but did year long clinic and continuing with it next year (advanced clinic)

I'm curious about: (1) is biglaw possible at this point applying as a 3L and (2) how much does URM play into things?


While not impossible, chances of BigLaw in your position don't look great, unless you can take advantage of any professional network you've developed. URM is only an advantage once you've got your foot in the door. With your stats getting to the door is going to be hard. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a lot of individual in similar shoes as you looking for BigLaw jobs. Best of luck.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325878
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:About me:
- Belew median (around 3.0) GPA at T20
- Worked at a firm 1L / Government 2L
- URM with decent work experience before law school (Government / Politics)
- Current job will not end with an offer
- No journal but did year long clinic and continuing with it next year (advanced clinic)

I'm curious about: (1) is biglaw possible at this point applying as a 3L and (2) how much does URM play into things?


Your work experience is excellent, assuming the firm was decent. But you done fucked up by going into a no-future government job 2L. Why did you do that? Not sure what your chances are apply and hope for the best. Wildcard.

JHP

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Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby JHP » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:About me:
- Belew median (around 3.0) GPA at T20
- Worked at a firm 1L / Government 2L
- URM with decent work experience before law school (Government / Politics)
- Current job will not end with an offer
- No journal but did year long clinic and continuing with it next year (advanced clinic)

I'm curious about: (1) is biglaw possible at this point applying as a 3L and (2) how much does URM play into things?


While not impossible, chances of BigLaw in your position don't look great, unless you can take advantage of any professional network you've developed. URM is only an advantage once you've got your foot in the door. With your stats getting to the door is going to be hard. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a lot of individual in similar shoes as you looking for BigLaw jobs. Best of luck.


^ Definitely agree. Around a 3.0 + no journal = not great chances on its face. As anon responder says, URM is something that might help if you have the baseline stats to get you into the interview pile. Unfortunately, big firms doing the 3L recruiting are definitely still looking for that baseline GPA cutoff + at least some outstanding other factors like extracurriculars they value (leadership roles, journal). People I know who got jobs as 3Ls either had at least 3.4 GPAs, and if they were around 3.3, they had a lot of other outstanding extracurricular activities. Again, not to be a negative voice, but just to give you a realistic perspective of the competitiveness of 3L biglaw recruiting.

Your clinic experience is probably going to be most helpful when targeting mid-size or small firms who want people with real experience in-court, drafting, working with clients, etc. I suggest you do as much as you can to network with people in those areas, and really market yourself as someone who can hit the ground running and take on a lot of experience at a smaller firm.

animalpeople

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Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby animalpeople » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:About me:
- Belew median (around 3.0) GPA at T20
- Worked at a firm 1L / Government 2L
- URM with decent work experience before law school (Government / Politics)
- Current job will not end with an offer
- No journal but did year long clinic and continuing with it next year (advanced clinic)

I'm curious about: (1) is biglaw possible at this point applying as a 3L and (2) how much does URM play into things?


Why weren't you invited back to your 1L firm?

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clarion

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Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby clarion » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:51 pm

I think everyone in here is spot-on. As a fellow URM who once tried for biglaw, I can personally attest that it's a struggle. I always think of URM in biglaw (or most jobs tbh) as being akin to a tiebreaker. If you and another non-URM are basically the same, you might get the edge. There are exceptions, but I think that should be your assumption. But all you can do is try! I just would be actively seeking out midlaw and whatever else you might be open to doing. Good luck!

And fwiw, while biglaw was a no-go for me, I'm fairly certain I enjoy my fed gov job more than I would have enjoyed biglaw. But admittedly, biglaw starting salary back then was only 160k, so who can be sure?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:08 pm

OP here! Few quick responses:

I'll definitely be seeking out Midlaw; are there any resources for targeting California midlaw firms? That's my "ideal" place to practice after law school but I didn't go to school there so don't really have any ties.

Thank you all for the responses though. Never quite know how URM factors into things (I'll obviously be applying in case I get lucky but I greatly appreciate this extra information).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325878
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:11 pm

Not to be a dick or anything, but isn’t a 3.0 at a top 20 (with a B+ curve, probably) like bottom third to bottom quarter?

I had a 3.1 my 1L year and hustled to get a job. I massmailed to every market I had some connection to and something stuck.

I wasn’t even a first choice. I found out in November after the initial summer class was given offers.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325878
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:41 pm

I'm in the same position pretty much. Anyone have any advice on when to start mass mailing as a rising 3L?

JHP

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Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby JHP » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm in the same position pretty much. Anyone have any advice on when to start mass mailing as a rising 3L?


If you're thinking big law (and probably mid-size), those firms will probably get a good sense of what space they have/don't have in their various departments by August-ish. At that point, as the summer winds down, they'll know which summers they'll offer/won't offer, and whether some of those summers are unlikely to take up the offer. You should be consistently mailing between August - November (even past that maybe for small firms and maybe some midlaw). Things will constantly be posed on symplicity and firms' job openings sites around that period.

Make the best use of the early part of your summer by networking, connecting with attorneys, going to local bar association events, etc. to set yourself up in the best position when you mass mail in the fall. Obviously, 3L positions are even rarer than OCI positions, so you want to make sure you've distinguished yourself from the pool of other eager 3L students.

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clarion

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Re: URM Chances at Biglaw

Postby clarion » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:31 pm

I agree with JHP and will also add two things.

1) Keep on the lookout for semester internship positions at firms. For spring 3L, I had an offer to work at a biglaw firm that had a need for short-term help in one of their offices. They specifically wanted someone with experience in the area (me) and people who didn't already have post-grad employment lined up. I ended up not taking the internship once I got my fed job offer in December, but my point is that stuff like that does come up, so keep an eye out.

2) Have you checked the 3L Vale of Tears in this forum? Idk what it's like these days, but I know when I was a depressed 3L it had some very useful advice.

Good luck!



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