County Prosecutor Taking Questions Forum

[CntyProsecutor]

Hi all -

County prosecutor here, taking questions.

Quick overview: 2015 TTT graduate. Law Review, Moot Court, Trial Ad. TA. Decent grades in LS. Two years of private practice before taking position as a state prosecutor. I have been with my office for roughly 1 year. The county I'm employed with is immediately adjacent to a major metro area. As such, it's one of the "bigger" prosecutor offices in my state.

I'm in my office doing some mindless work, and thought I'd open up the forum in the event I could provide some insight to TLSers out there. Whatever you want to ask, I'll try my best to answer.

[Anonymous Questioner]

1) How hard is it to get a job as an ADA in a mid-sized district right out of law school? If I work for the local offices during summers and have Moot Court, is it still crazy competitive?
2) Is it crazy difficult to move up in ranking within the office? What factors determine who moves up?

Thanks so much!

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for doing this.

Since you came in with 2 years of experience, did they start you on a salary of a 3rd year ADA or did you have to start from "0"?

[Anonymous User]

Salary?

Have you been sent out for trial yet or just hearings?

Best Judge story?

How do criminal appeals work in your jx?

[Anonymous User]

Hi, thanks for doing this.

Not sure if you can answer this but would appreciate any insight.

I'm interested in an ADA job (or any government attorney job) within my district. It's a pretty competitive district because a lot of people want to move there.

I've noticed just from LinkedIn and interviews I've been to, the local law school here dominates the majority of these positions. The school is a large third tier school that puts out a large number of graduates each year. There are more higher ranked law schools in the state, but it seems graduates from this particular school fills many of these positions, at both the low (temporary prosecutor positions) and high end (supervisory, managing roles).

I can't tell if it's all in my head, but do ADA offices typically look to hire their own alumni? I thought this was typically more a thing within the private sector, but I'm getting the feeling that it's more a thing within the public sector.

[Anonymous User]

good thread.

[Ohiobumpkin]

OP coming back, lol?

[encore1101]

I'm not the OP, but since he's seem to have vanished, I'll answer some to the best of my knowledge
(I'm a NYC, non-Manhattan prosecutor so reasonably similar to OP's position).

1) How hard is it to get a job as an ADA in a mid-sized district right out of law school? If I work for the local offices during summers and have Moot Court, is it still crazy competitive?
2) Is it crazy difficult to move up in ranking within the office? What factors determine who moves up?

1. In NYC offices, it's still pretty competitive. Hundreds, if not thousands of applicants for each office, for, at most, 30 spots. That being said, I've heard that applicants have been decreasing the last few years, perhaps because the private sector has been doing better. Your chances will almost always be higher if you intern at that office. I saw "almost" because I've heard/seen situations where the intern either did a poor job, did not mesh well with the ADAs, or both, and doing the internship actually hurt that intern's odds.
Unless you're looking to get into Appeals Bureau, doing PTAI may be better than Moot Court. That being said, some offices look for new hires specifically for Appeals, so it may be a nice way to stand out.

2) In my office at least, it's fairly difficult. The two major factors I've seen considered for who moves up is competency, and space availability. Each bureau is allotted a certain amount of "Senior ADAs," "Supervisors," "Deputy Bureau Chiefs," for example. If that bureau has enough "Senior ADAs," then it's difficult to be promoted within that bureau to Senior ADA.

Since you came in with 2 years of experience, did they start you on a salary of a 3rd year ADA or did you have to start from "0"?

I did not do this, but my co-hire came in with several years in a different county. He started at the same pay rate. Similarly, another co-hire previously clerked in a different state and started at the same pay rate as well.

Salary?

Have you been sent out for trial yet or just hearings?

Best Judge story?

How do criminal appeals work in your jx?]

$68k ish base, which ends up being closer to $71-72k with bonuses.
I'm in Appeals, so I haven't done trials. One of my fellow Appeals ADAs second-sat a trial. I've done several post-conviction hearings, oral arguments in the AD and AT, and am currently sitting in a pre-trial hearing to help out the trial assistants.

Gonna pass on the best judge story, since that'll give away who I am.

Defendants can appeal to the intermediate appellate court as of right. Highest court by permission only. Unlimited opportunities for post-conviction motions, although there is a permissive procedural bar after the first one. Appeal of post-conviction motion is permissive.

I can't tell if it's all in my head, but do ADA offices typically look to hire their own alumni? I thought this was typically more a thing within the private sector, but I'm getting the feeling that it's more a thing within the public sector.

My office tends to hire from local law schools. Partly because we have so many ADAs as adjuncts there. A lot of our senior staff went to the local law schools. We have clinics at the local law schools as well. I don't think its a matter of "oh this person went to <local law school>, let's give him a +1!" (though that definitely may be a factor). It's more like, people who go to local law schools have more opportunities to build connections and network with the ADAs that are there.

OP coming back, lol?

Nobody knows!

[encore1101]

I messed up the formatting from the previous post and it won't let me edit, so here's a clearer version:

Salary?

Have you been sent out for trial yet or just hearings?

Best Judge story?

How do criminal appeals work in your jx?

$68k ish base, which ends up being closer to $71-72k with bonuses.
I'm in Appeals, so I haven't done trials. One of my fellow Appeals ADAs second-sat a trial. I've done several post-conviction hearings, oral arguments in the AD and AT, and am currently sitting in a pre-trial hearing to help out the trial assistants.

Gonna pass on the best judge story, since that'll give away who I am.

Defendants can appeal to the intermediate appellate court as of right. Highest court by permission only. Unlimited opportunities for post-conviction motions, although there is a permissive procedural bar after the first one. Appeal of post-conviction motion is permissive.

I can't tell if it's all in my head, but do ADA offices typically look to hire their own alumni? I thought this was typically more a thing within the private sector, but I'm getting the feeling that it's more a thing within the public sector.

My office tends to hire from local law schools. Partly because we have so many ADAs as adjuncts there. A lot of our senior staff went to the local law schools. We have clinics at the local law schools as well. I don't think its a matter of "oh this person went to <local law school>, let's give him a +1!" (though that definitely may be a factor). It's more like, people who go to local law schools have more opportunities to build connections and network with the ADAs that are there.

Also, I think there's a belief that people from local law schools are more likely to stick around than use the DA's office as a stepping stone for a better job. Whether that belief is warranted or not, and if so, what are the reasons underlying that belief, is a separate discussion.

[suicide_sally]

Why did you choose a job that requires you to DESTROY the lives of poor people???? Also, aren't you afraid of going to hell for this?


uote="CntyProsecutor"]Hi all -

County prosecutor here, taking questions.

Quick overview: 2015 TTT graduate. Law Review, Moot Court, Trial Ad. TA. Decent grades in LS. Two years of private practice before taking position as a state prosecutor. I have been with my office for roughly 1 year. The county I'm employed with is immediately adjacent to a major metro area. As such, it's one of the "bigger" prosecutor offices in my state.

I'm in my office doing some mindless work, and thought I'd open up the forum in the event I could provide some insight to TLSers out there. Whatever you want to ask, I'll try my best to answer.[/quote]

[objctnyrhnr]

Why did you choose a job that requires you to DESTROY the lives of poor people???? Also, aren't you afraid of going to hell for this?


uote="CntyProsecutor"]Hi all -

County prosecutor here, taking questions.

Quick overview: 2015 TTT graduate. Law Review, Moot Court, Trial Ad. TA. Decent grades in LS. Two years of private practice before taking position as a state prosecutor. I have been with my office for roughly 1 year. The county I'm employed with is immediately adjacent to a major metro area. As such, it's one of the "bigger" prosecutor offices in my state.

I'm in my office doing some mindless work, and thought I'd open up the forum in the event I could provide some insight to TLSers out there. Whatever you want to ask, I'll try my best to answer.

[/quote]

How about when those poor people in question (defendants) destroy the lives of other poor people in their communities (victims). Or in your view, should nobody ever be punished for anything? Why have laws at all?

[BeeTeeZ]

Hi all -

County prosecutor here, taking questions.

Quick overview: 2015 TTT graduate. Law Review, Moot Court, Trial Ad. TA. Decent grades in LS. Two years of private practice before taking position as a state prosecutor. I have been with my office for roughly 1 year. The county I'm employed with is immediately adjacent to a major metro area. As such, it's one of the "bigger" prosecutor offices in my state.

I'm in my office doing some mindless work, and thought I'd open up the forum in the event I could provide some insight to TLSers out there. Whatever you want to ask, I'll try my best to answer.

Maybe you should stick with the mindless work.

Thanks for nothing bozo.

[encore1101]

Why did you choose a job that requires you to DESTROY the lives of poor people???? Also, aren't you afraid of going to hell for this?

Some of my defendants include:
Guy who sucker-punched his victim and stomped the shit out of him because they got into a fight at a bar an hour earlier. Victim was in a coma and later died.
Guy who went 60+ MPH past a stopped school bus that had its red lights blinking. He hit a 11 y/o school girl that was crossing the street. She's been paralyzed for about 6 years now. Her parents have to bathe her every night.
Guy shot at an imam. He attacked the victim's mosque with an axe and tried to burn it down.
Guy who downloaded 11,000+ images and videos of child pornography, including some of very explicit content of young children getting raped.
Guy who recorded his step-daughter taking a shower using a hidden camera.
Guy and girl who used a shoe string to kill a homeless man for drug money.

I don't believe in hell, so I'm not afraid I'm going there.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Why did you choose a job that requires you to DESTROY the lives of poor people???? Also, aren't you afraid of going to hell for this?

Some of my defendants include:
Guy who sucker-punched his victim and stomped the shit out of him because they got into a fight at a bar an hour earlier. Victim was in a coma and later died.
Guy who went 60+ MPH past a stopped school bus that had its red lights blinking. He hit a 11 y/o school girl that was crossing the street. She's been paralyzed for about 6 years now. Her parents have to bathe her every night.
Guy shot at an imam. He attacked the victim's mosque with an axe and tried to burn it down.
Guy who downloaded 11,000+ images and videos of child pornography, including some of very explicit content of young children getting raped.
Guy who recorded his step-daughter taking a shower using a hidden camera.
Guy and girl who used a shoe string to kill a homeless man for drug money.

I don't believe in hell, so I'm not afraid I'm going there.

+1. I get the suspicion against prosecutors in some select areas, but prosecutors are often just as much the good guys as public defenders are. Thank you for your work!

[CntyProsecutor]

1) How hard is it to get a job as an ADA in a mid-sized district right out of law school? If I work for the local offices during summers and have Moot Court, is it still crazy competitive?
2) Is it crazy difficult to move up in ranking within the office? What factors determine who moves up?

Thanks so much!

1. I'd imagine the difficulty is largely circumstantial, depending on the specific office, the specific location, and the candidate's qualifications. As a general matter, local DA offices tend to have a lot of turnover. For some of the larger metro DA offices, there's a regimented hiring structure in place. For others, the hiring process is more fluid. Of the two, my office is the latter-type. If you acquire experience in a local prosecutor's office during law school, you will have an immediate advantage over other candidates as you: (1) have demonstrated an interest in not only prosecution, but prosecuting crime in that specific county -- and, (2) you've already been in the training pipeline for several months. So, you'd likely be able to hit the ground running as a barred ADA.

2. "Moving up" at my office is largely moving from one pay grade to a higher pay grade. That is almost exclusively based on tenure in the office.

[CntyProsecutor]

Thanks for doing this.

Since you came in with 2 years of experience, did they start you on a salary of a 3rd year ADA or did you have to start from "0"?

Started from "0". I was a civil litigator for two years. During those two years, what I learned substantively did not really translate to crim. law. So, salary wise, I started as would any other first year ADA. That said, laterals from other prosecutor offices have ended up in my county -- and, have started at a higher pay grade.

[CntyProsecutor]

Salary? - $50k

Have you been sent out for trial yet or just hearings? Both.

Best Judge story? Send me a pm if you're really interested.

How do criminal appeals work in your jx?

Can you narrow this question a bit? As a general matter, my office has a unit that deals with all appellate issues.

[CntyProsecutor]

OP coming back, lol?

Back! Sorry.

[CntyProsecutor]

[quote="suicide_sally"]Why did you choose a job that requires you to DESTROY the lives of poor people???? Also, aren't you afraid of going to hell for this?

I imagine your being facetious, but you bring up a pertinent discussion topic for other who might be viewing this thread.

To nerd it up and draw on 1L theories of punishment, there is a huge rehabilitative component to prosecution. To the extent mental health issues and/or addiction fuels an offender's criminal conduct (which they often do) -- most, if not all, counties offer services that treat an individual offender's underlying issues. Sentencing orders often require those individuals to submit to some form of county-funded treatment, so they can (theoretically) emerge from county supervision a more lucid, sober, measured, etc. individual. With respect to most cases, it's not as adversarial as you might think, with defense and prosecutors yelling from across their respective counsel tables.

[CntyProsecutor]

Hi all -

County prosecutor here, taking questions.

Quick overview: 2015 TTT graduate. Law Review, Moot Court, Trial Ad. TA. Decent grades in LS. Two years of private practice before taking position as a state prosecutor. I have been with my office for roughly 1 year. The county I'm employed with is immediately adjacent to a major metro area. As such, it's one of the "bigger" prosecutor offices in my state.

I'm in my office doing some mindless work, and thought I'd open up the forum in the event I could provide some insight to TLSers out there. Whatever you want to ask, I'll try my best to answer.

Maybe you should stick with the mindless work.

Thanks for nothing bozo.

There's a large contingent of insufferable, entitled attorneys out there. They develop a reputation as such. Not that I know you, but an individual who would take the time to post the above suggests you may fall into that category. Don't be that type. You also didn't actually pose a question in either this post, or a prior one -- so if you're generally interested in this topic, I'm here to answer any questions.

[andythefir]

1) How hard is it to get a job as an ADA in a mid-sized district right out of law school? If I work for the local offices during summers and have Moot Court, is it still crazy competitive?
2) Is it crazy difficult to move up in ranking within the office? What factors determine who moves up?

Thanks so much!

These ideas are very related. Its much more difficult to catch on in a medium-sized or larger town, and it’s much more difficult to move up. In the prosecutor’s office in the biggest town in my state you do 1-2 years of speeding/parking, then 2-3 years of DUI and misdemeanors, then 3-5 years in nonviolent property crime.