Top Law Schools

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks. The COLA point is a separate bullet because I have to fill this memo.

"Fueling their resentment -- readers calculated that $160,000 in 2008 is, adjusted for inflation, equivalent to approximately $199,000 today. This calculation was echoed on legal sites such as Above The Law."

"Readers said that once things settle, they would immediately seek to lateral to the market leader in salaries. A debate ensued over whether such a move was worth an extra $10,000 to $20,000 per year, but it was quickly and near unanimously resolved in favor of a move, with respondents noting the high cost of living in Manhattan and student loan payments."

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

This is a tremendous parody of a Skadden associate post.

Anonymous User wrote:Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.

Houston or Austin are absolutely better than Philly. Doesn't PA have income tax and require you to buy liquor from government stores at designated times?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.

Houston or Austin are absolutely better than Philly. Doesn't PA have income tax and require you to buy liquor from government stores at designated times?

Anonymous User wrote:

ternarydaemon wrote:As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).

I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Tell him to prioritize hiring Yale/Columbia grads and to cut TX office salaries to fund your raise for your high CoL offices (SF/NYC/DC).

MaxMcMann wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

ternarydaemon wrote:As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).

I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.

Lit or corp?

Wild Card wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

It's no secret that Skadden sucks.

Anonymous User wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

It's no secret that Skadden sucks.

How does Skadden suck anymore than the other V5s?

Anonymous User wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

It's no secret that Skadden sucks.

How does Skadden suck anymore than the other V5s?

Anonymous User wrote:Here's hoping today is the day for more matches of the new scale + summer bonuses.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Here's hoping today is the day for more matches of the new scale + summer bonuses.

I'm an associate at one of the big Houston firms. Source confirmed we will be announcing match+bonus today.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Okay at this point, we need to ask what’s going on with the supposedly “elite” litigation boutiques. Where is the response from Williams and Connolly, Susman, Boies, and Munger Tolles. Any associate working at one of those firms has a resume that can run circles around anyone at Cravath or S&C. Those “elite” firms are getting SHAMED by Selendy and by Hueston Hennigan.

lol W&C "elite" firm

It is relative to Cravath. It's way harder to get a job at Williams and Connolly than at Cravath. Idk about Boies, they seem slightly less selective than the other lot, but Susman and MTO are substantially more selective than Cravath, S&C, etc.

So many sub-T14 kids at Boies. Not that selective at all.

Anonymous User wrote:The effect from falling medians at T14 schools is really starting to show. This board is full of more dumbs than AutoAdmit now.

bruinfan10 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:The effect from falling medians at T14 schools is really starting to show. This board is full of more dumbs than AutoAdmit now.

Couldn't agree more. When a bunch of rising 2Ls prepping for OCI start mouthing off about firms like Bartlit Beck/Susman/MTO not being selective, you know this message board has jumped the shark. Are there seriously no practicing biglawyers left on this board, just the pack of fresh-faced idiots sh@tting all over this thread??

Anonymous User wrote:The effect from falling medians at T14 schools is really starting to show. This board is full of more dumbs than AutoAdmit now.