NYC to 200k Forum

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lawposeidon

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by lawposeidon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lawposeidon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Am the anon who thinks partners can suck it. In all seriousness, they are making oodles of money, and can afford it, at least at the top firms (I do expect many of the lower v100 not to match).

Could this accelerate a trend towards firing staff to save other overhead costs? Possibly, at least for secretaries, who are often useless. I will only care if they come after the paralegals. Good paralegals are priceless and hopefully the partners are not too stupid to realize that.
I know they can afford it. They could have afforded it before being forced to give raises. But they're greedy as hell and I wonder if they'll pay for these raises by taking it from somewhere else, like underperformers, including underperforming partners I imagine!
You seem like a 1L who asks too many questions. COULD THERE BE SOME SMALL NEGATIVE? Idk; just give me the money plz and thanks.
heh. fair.

sucsuroc

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by sucsuroc » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:50 pm

For those wondering when their firm will match: last time this happened, only one firm, a lit boutique where I'd expect it was pretty easy to get all the partners together, matched on the day of the announcement. Five firms matched on T+1 and matches started in earnest on T+2. My guess is it will be a little slower this time around as I think last time firms had all come to terms with the fact that they'd eventually need to raise and were just waiting to let someone else go first, while this time it seems like people are genuinely surprised.

https://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/salary- ... ises/?rf=1

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:52 pm

sucsuroc wrote:For those wondering when their firm will match: last time this happened, only one firm, a lit boutique where I'd expect it was pretty easy to get all the partners together, matched on the day of the announcement. Five firms matched on T+1 and matches started in earnest on T+2. My guess is it will be a little slower this time around as I think last time firms had all come to terms with the fact that they'd eventually need to raise and were just waiting to let someone else go first, while this time it seems like people are genuinely surprised.

https://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/salary- ... ises/?rf=1
Some firms were willing to go to 190 last time and matched. I think this week we'll be seeing a string of matches.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:55 pm

sucsuroc wrote:For those wondering when their firm will match: last time this happened, only one firm, a lit boutique where I'd expect it was pretty easy to get all the partners together, matched on the day of the announcement. Five firms matched on T+1 and matches started in earnest on T+2. My guess is it will be a little slower this time around as I think last time firms had all come to terms with the fact that they'd eventually need to raise and were just waiting to let someone else go first, while this time it seems like people are genuinely surprised.

https://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/salary- ... ises/?rf=1
Firms may also hesitate to act given the embarrassment associated with being beat by a higher raise by a rival firm. All eyes on the regular suspects who compete for the best talent from the most elite law schools (e.g., DPW/S&C/STB/Skadden/Cravath).

Well, that, and that the next threshold is $200k, which is such a nice, shiny round number -- I don't see why a firm wouldn't want to be the one to bring the market to it.

lawposeidon

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by lawposeidon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:56 pm

I think they'll all match it's only a 5% raise, a few percentage points above inflation.

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sucsuroc

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by sucsuroc » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Firms may also hesitate to act given the embarrassment associated with being beat by a higher raise by a rival firm. All eyes on the regular suspects who compete for the best talent from the most elite law schools (e.g., DPW/S&C/STB/Skadden/Cravath).

Well, that, and that the next threshold is $200k, which is such a nice, shiny round number -- I don't see why a firm wouldn't want to be the one to bring the market to it.
Agreed. Seeing as the first year associate class is the largest, it makes sense to pay them a round number so that it's easier to estimate how much you're paying them in aggregate. NY to 200 confirmed.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:03 pm

sucsuroc wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Firms may also hesitate to act given the embarrassment associated with being beat by a higher raise by a rival firm. All eyes on the regular suspects who compete for the best talent from the most elite law schools (e.g., DPW/S&C/STB/Skadden/Cravath).

Well, that, and that the next threshold is $200k, which is such a nice, shiny round number -- I don't see why a firm wouldn't want to be the one to bring the market to it.
Agreed. Seeing as the first year associate class is the largest, it makes sense to pay them a round number so that it's easier to estimate how much you're paying them in aggregate. NY to 200 confirmed.
Haha, not what I meant. Rather that the media will definitely cover the associate pay raise, much like it did last time. $200k is undeniably a significant sum of money to get paid, even in New York or California. It's good press for a firm to create the new salary scale and to breach the threshold. I expect a firm to set the market at $200k.

Also, LOL:
https://imgur.com/a/f3N8hLf

lawposeidon

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by lawposeidon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:13 pm

lol that fake Milbank twitter account already has recruiting firm followers. Wait it was created in 2009?!

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which firms matched? Someone told me Simpson, but that's all I've heard. No confirmation tho
I heard Kirkland matched, which doesn’t bode well for the move to 200K.
Can someone please confirm this? I agree this is extremely unfortunate, if true. Kirkland has been firing on all cylinders, and has a great shot to one-up the more prestigious New York firms with a move to $200k or $210k and the creation of a "Kirkland scale." And as we know, prestige follows the money.
K&E Associate: they have not formally announced anything but partners are already joking with us about how we’re getting raises. I won’t be shocked if we go to $200k, but I wouldn’t expect us to be the first mover. In 2016, a partner told me that the Firm Committee had essentially pre-approved any raise up to $200k as a match to a set list of peer firms (which is probably higher now), but that they already view our comp as above market, so any extra will go to bonuses rather than a voluntary salary hike.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:26 pm

Kirkland moving to 200k would really cement their growth over the last 5-6 years, and put them on par with the traditional NYC firms. But, i just don't see firms moving to 200k, when all they need to do is the bare minimum of matching at 190

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which firms matched? Someone told me Simpson, but that's all I've heard. No confirmation tho
I heard Kirkland matched, which doesn’t bode well for the move to 200K.
Can someone please confirm this? I agree this is extremely unfortunate, if true. Kirkland has been firing on all cylinders, and has a great shot to one-up the more prestigious New York firms with a move to $200k or $210k and the creation of a "Kirkland scale." And as we know, prestige follows the money.
K&E Associate: they have not formally announced anything but partners are already joking with us about how we’re getting raises. I won’t be shocked if we go to $200k, but I wouldn’t expect us to be the first mover. In 2016, a partner told me that the Firm Committee had essentially pre-approved any raise up to $200k as a match to a set list of peer firms (which is probably higher now), but that they already view our comp as above market, so any extra will go to bonuses rather than a voluntary salary hike.
This is extremely helpful. Thank you.

Kirkland and Latham are peer firms in every sense of the word. Both non-NYC firms with enormous NYC footprints, and still are perceived a step below the old vanguard of Cravath, DPW, STB and S&C in the world's most important legal market: https://www.law.com/2018/02/28/kirkland ... o-success/

But Kirkland's PPP has risen from below that of Latham as late as 2014 to now being ~60% higher, at $4.7 million as of last year, eclipsing even Cravath. Kirkland is the one firm that we should be counting on to raise to $200k or above. If they do it, every top New York firm will have to follow in order to maintain their alleged superiority. And make no mistake, having to follow would still be an enormous loss of face for those firms and their recruiting efforts.

Say what you want, but the best law students from the most elite law schools want to get paid. The narcissism of fine differences is a thing when you're all getting paid the same, but when you're not...
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which firms matched? Someone told me Simpson, but that's all I've heard. No confirmation tho
I heard Kirkland matched, which doesn’t bode well for the move to 200K.
Can someone please confirm this? I agree this is extremely unfortunate, if true. Kirkland has been firing on all cylinders, and has a great shot to one-up the more prestigious New York firms with a move to $200k or $210k and the creation of a "Kirkland scale." And as we know, prestige follows the money.
K&E Associate: they have not formally announced anything but partners are already joking with us about how we’re getting raises. I won’t be shocked if we go to $200k, but I wouldn’t expect us to be the first mover. In 2016, a partner told me that the Firm Committee had essentially pre-approved any raise up to $200k as a match to a set list of peer firms (which is probably higher now), but that they already view our comp as above market, so any extra will go to bonuses rather than a voluntary salary hike.
I'm a K&E associate as well. While I didn't have the above-referenced conversation with the partner, I think this is an accurate reflection of the sentiment of the partners I've talked to. They want to be above market, meaning they'd prefer to compensate via bonuses, which other firms won't match and which they can't vary based on hours or whatever they mean by "merit," rather than salaries.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:36 pm

These v5ish firms should all move to $250k for first years. The reason they get premium work is because their clients expect the tippy top quality of work, which would be impossible without the associates. It's a crime that their associates make what a V100 associates make. No explanation but greed.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:These v5ish firms should all move to $250k for first years. The reason they get premium work is because their clients expect the tippy top quality of work, which would be impossible without the associates. It's a crime that their associates make what a V100 associate's make. No explanation but greed.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by toast and bananas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:These v5ish firms should all move to $250k for first years. The reason they get premium work is because their clients expect the tippy top quality of work, which would be impossible without the associates. It's a crime that their associates make what a V100 associate's make. No explanation but greed.
jfc

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:42 pm

It's true toast. Kirkland's PPP is 4x a v50-100's because they get more profitable work. Part of the reason they get that is the partners, but another huge part is the associates. Why would Kirkland's partners make more than the v50-100's but not the associates? That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by 1styearlateral » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:These v5ish firms should all move to $250k for first years. The reason they get premium work is because their clients expect the tippy top quality of work, which would be impossible without the associates. It's a crime that their associates make what a V100 associates make. No explanation but greed.
I understand the logic, but brave anon.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's true toast. Kirkland's PPP is 4x a v50-100's because they get more profitable work. Part of the reason they get that is the partners, but another huge part is the associates. Why would Kirkland's partners make more than the v50-100's but not the associates? That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.
This has been the sad truth of being a very good but not excellent/partnership-quality biglaw associate at a top firm from a top law school. You can go to a V5 rather than a V100, but what do you have to show for it at the end of the day other than "prestige." What about the thousands of extra hours of effort that you put in in high school/college (because, in all likelihood, you went to an Ivy), in law school (went to a T14), etc.? Exit ops, partnership prospects, etc. are not guaranteed and are highly dependent on being at the right place at the right time. At the end of the day, the Yale/Columbia Law top 20% associate at a V5 who does not make partner and goes in-house has, twelve years out of high school, not made a penny more than the Hofstra/GW top 40% lawyer who went to a V100 and does the same.

Let's keep out fingers crossed that this changes today.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote: That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.
Eh not the best example. Cooks make shit even at the best restaurants

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Eh not the best example. Cooks make shit even at the best restaurants
Really? Then who gets the extra money they make by charging me $100 for a meal?

Hopefullitassociate

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Hopefullitassociate » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.
Eh not the best example. Cooks make shit even at the best restaurants
Also because V100 associates aren't McDonalds cooks to V5's michelin star chefs.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:55 pm

So it all depends on cravath, davis polk, simpson, sullivan, skadden to see if NY goes to $200k or all these firms just match at $190k. Hoping for the best, but I still think it's unlikely they go to $200k. Although, they absolutely should!

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:56 pm

Hopefullitassociate wrote: Also because V100 associates aren't McDonalds cooks to V5's michelin star chefs.
What I meant was that a Michelin star restaurant makes a ton more profit, per employee, than a McDonalds. So I presume a junior cook at one is paid more than one at a McDonalds. It's not a controversial idea. If your company makes more profit than another in your industry, your employees should make more than the others' employees.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It's true toast. Kirkland's PPP is 4x a v50-100's because they get more profitable work. Part of the reason they get that is the partners, but another huge part is the associates. Why would Kirkland's partners make more than the v50-100's but not the associates? That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.
This has been the sad truth of being a very good but not excellent/partnership-quality biglaw associate at a top firm from a top law school. You can go to a V5 rather than a V100, but what do you have to show for it at the end of the day other than "prestige." What about the thousands of extra hours of effort that you put in in high school/college (because, in all likelihood, you went to an Ivy), in law school (went to a T14), etc.? Exit ops, partnership prospects, etc. are not guaranteed and are highly dependent on being at the right place at the right time. At the end of the day, the Yale/Columbia Law top 20% associate at a V5 who does not make partner and goes in-house has, twelve years out of high school, not made a penny more than the Hofstra/GW top 40% lawyer who went to a V100 and does the same.

Let's keep out fingers crossed that this changes today.
You do have more job security, as your firm is usually less likely to run out of work and fire you, and if that happens, you can more easily lateral. Sometimes your cases are also marginally more interesting, since your billing rates are higher and so some of the more boring work doesn't justify using your firm.

But otherwise true.

JohnnieSockran

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by JohnnieSockran » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:57 pm

HH match.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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