NYC to 200k Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Why is DLA not on these shame lists?
Bc there’s enough shame working at DLA already
Hall of fame


Serious question -- why are they any worse than other firms? I thought the joke about DLA started like 15 years ago when forming mega-firms through mergers was still sort of a new thing. Not so much anymore
Anecdotally, when I interviewed for them they were one of the most bland, dry, uninteresting firms I looked at. None of the people that I talked to seemed to think that they were doing something important or interesting. The only one that was worse was ML Boston, but this was shortly after Bingham sank so I don't blame the lack of enthusiasm for the new firm.

From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.

It's by no means a "bad" firm - they do work and make money. I'm sure some do very good work and some really like it. But in our little world it's not a good place to be at.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:38 pm

DLA's bad rep is a weird holdover from the mid-2000s. I'd think that a firm like Denton's is the Walmart of biglaw

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.
DLA does enough work in enough markets that more people know them. This can skew the rankings. Firms that are more focused on one or two markets but don't have the national prestige like Cravath, etc. will end up doing better. Also, I don't think that DLA's reputation just has to do with its size.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.
Vault rankings don't mean much of anything if you don't practice transaction law in NYC.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


objctnyrhnr

Moderator
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:44 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by objctnyrhnr » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:02 pm

But DLA is likely to match, right?

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 988
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Wild Card » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.
Vault rankings don't mean much of anything if you don't practice transaction law in NYC.
Wish this were true. The discrepancy between Vault and Chambers rankings is disheartening:

Band 1
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP

Band 3
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP

Band 4
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP (V49)
Shearman & Sterling LLP (V41)
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP (V51)

Band 5
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Jones Day
White & Case LLP

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:19 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:But DLA is likely to match, right?


I think they'll match salaries but skip the bonuses.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.
Because Vault doesn't mean anything significant. Once you start working, you will definitely realize.

As to Shearman, open up your Vault rankings, click rankings history to see older rankings and click 2007 or 2008, they used to be ranked in the top 20. They used to be ranked even in the top 10 back in late 90s or early 20s.

If you are interested in doing M&A and want to do the biggest deals, look at Chambers and Partners M&A bands, not Vault.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:48 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:But DLA is likely to match, right?
Every single major law firm will eventually match. But some firms may not fully match the new scale or bonus.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:57 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.
Vault rankings don't mean much of anything if you don't practice transaction law in NYC.
Wish this were true. The discrepancy between Vault and Chambers rankings is disheartening:

Band 1
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP

Band 3
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP

Band 4
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP (V49)
Shearman & Sterling LLP (V41)
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP (V51)

Band 5
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
What do you mean? At the top Vault and Chambers overlap a ton.

Band 1--V1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7

Band 2--V8, 10, 11, 14

Band 3--V5, 18

Band 4--V41, 49, 51

Band 5--V9, 16, 19

Aside from the Band 4 firms and the two California firms there's almost complete overlap.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wild Card wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
From a broader perspective, the law is about prestige, which is relatively subjective, whether you like it or not. Sure we can see how many top law schools and law review members are represented, but in the end of the day firms just get a reputation that sticks. And DLA seems to have the reputation of the Walmart of firms, but without the nice greeters. They are a wet blanket.
I don't get this DLA is ranked 33 on vault and a firm like Shearman is ranked 41, yet no one talks shit about Shearman. Hell, even Milbank is ranked lower at 40.
Vault rankings don't mean much of anything if you don't practice transaction law in NYC.
Wish this were true. The discrepancy between Vault and Chambers rankings is disheartening:

Band 1
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP

Band 3
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP

Band 4
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP (V49)
Shearman & Sterling LLP (V41)
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP (V51)

Band 5
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
What do you mean? At the top Vault and Chambers overlap a ton.

Band 1--V1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7

Band 2--V8, 10, 11, 14

Band 3--V5, 18

Band 4--V41, 49, 51

Band 5--V9, 16, 19

Aside from the Band 4 firms and the two California firms there's almost complete overlap.
Complete overlap only for band 1 and band 2.
How would you explain bands 3 to 5?

If you compare the Vault NYC rankings to the bands, you will see a more clear overlap. If you take the survey, you know the New York one is the only one that is close to being relevant.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
As to Shearman, open up your Vault rankings, click rankings history to see older rankings and click 2007 or 2008, they used to be ranked in the top 20. They used to be ranked even in the top 10 back in late 90s or early 20s.
Wow you weren't kidding, recession must've hit them hard

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:24 pm

Sorry I might be naive here but I don't understand why we're expecting Vault rankings to track Chambers M&A bands... Do you bodega-loving Yale/Columbia NYC folks really think that this is the only thing that matters?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:43 pm

Akin associates ordering extra palak chaat at Rasika before VIP seats at the KenCen for Hamilton and breakfast at the Hay Adams the next day after a night in their DuPoint 3-bedroom

Hogan/GDC/A&P drones skipping the guac at District Taco and running out of funds on their SmarTrip as they trek back to their Franconia studio

oblig.lawl.ref

Bronze
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by oblig.lawl.ref » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry I might be naive here but I don't understand why we're expecting Vault rankings to track Chambers M&A bands... Do you bodega-loving Yale/Columbia NYC folks really think that this is the only thing that matters?
It's significant and telling that it tracks it to the extent it does. It's not lamentable that it doesn't even closer.

oblig.lawl.ref

Bronze
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by oblig.lawl.ref » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Akin associates ordering extra palak chaat at Rasika before VIP seats at the KenCen for Hamilton and breakfast at the Hay Adams the next day after a night in their DuPoint 3-bedroom

Hogan/GDC/A&P drones skipping the guac at District Taco and running out of funds on their SmarTrip as they trek back to their Franconia studio
Classic.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Akin associates ordering extra palak chaat at Rasika before VIP seats at the KenCen for Hamilton and breakfast at the Hay Adams the next day after a night in their DuPoint 3-bedroom

Hogan/GDC/A&P drones skipping the guac at District Taco and running out of funds on their SmarTrip as they trek back to their Franconia studio
Easily the freshest post in the last 50 pages

dabigchina

Gold
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:22 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by dabigchina » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
As to Shearman, open up your Vault rankings, click rankings history to see older rankings and click 2007 or 2008, they used to be ranked in the top 20. They used to be ranked even in the top 10 back in late 90s or early 20s.
Wow you weren't kidding, recession must've hit them hard
Wasn't even the 2008 recession that hit them hard. It was the 2001 dot com bust that apparently hit them the hardest. They were the original LaTTTham

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1004483435980377880

few years later they did this:

http://observer.com/2005/04/shearminati ... -to-leave/

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:Akin associates ordering extra palak chaat at Rasika before VIP seats at the KenCen for Hamilton and breakfast at the Hay Adams the next day after a night in their DuPoint 3-bedroom

Hogan/GDC/A&P drones skipping the guac at District Taco and running out of funds on their SmarTrip as they trek back to their Franconia studio
This is amazing. And Covington associates?

redsox550

Moderator
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by redsox550 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any serious thoughts as to why Latham & GDC haven't matched yet?
Latham: they are cheap, and their process for approving raises/bonuses is complicated (and probably also slowed given their current lack of a chairman).

Gibson: they are cheap, and are waiting for Latham to match (which is the only firm they consider a true peer), so they can tell clients that they valiantly resisted raises to the bitter end, but were ultimately forced to match to remain competitive with peer firms.

Neither appears to care about the optics/messaging to current and future associates involved in such a long delay.
Why are Gibson and Latham so similar / Gibson’s only “true competitor”

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Akin associates ordering extra palak chaat at Rasika before VIP seats at the KenCen for Hamilton and breakfast at the Hay Adams the next day after a night in their DuPoint 3-bedroom

Hogan/GDC/A&P drones skipping the guac at District Taco and running out of funds on their SmarTrip as they trek back to their Franconia studio
This is amazing. And Covington associates?
Covington associates are late for work because they have to take the free sTTTreetcar.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Akin associates ordering extra palak chaat at Rasika before VIP seats at the KenCen for Hamilton and breakfast at the Hay Adams the next day after a night in their DuPoint 3-bedroom

Hogan/GDC/A&P drones skipping the guac at District Taco and running out of funds on their SmarTrip as they trek back to their Franconia studio
This is amazing. And Covington associates?
Someone’s got to make the Palak Chaat...

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:04 am

Gibson matched raise and bonus. You get the bonus if you’re annualizing 1950 at the end of June or, alternately, if you’re above 1950 at the end of the billable year.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:Gibson matched raise and bonus. You get the bonus if you’re annualizing 1950 at the end of June or, alternately, if you’re above 1950 at the end of the billable year.
Honest tip or sneaky Latham associate?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”