NYC to 200k

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:48 pm

ternarydaemon wrote:As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).


I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:50 pm

Westchester county and southern connecticut is in the house here for sure

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.


You god damn monster. Of course we deserve weekends.

70% conversion rate as a first year is really good for some groups. It really is group dependent.

It's better to look at Midlevels. Most midlevels, hopefully, get to around 85-90% conversion rate, especially in this economy. The real key comes in how you deal with your procrastination because no one can stay attentive 24/5 all week every second for years at a time. If you fail at this, your conversion rate will plummet.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.


You god damn monster. Of course we deserve weekends.

70% conversion rate as a first year is really good for some groups. It really is group dependent.

It's better to look at Midlevels. Most midlevels, hopefully, get to around 85-90% conversion rate, especially in this economy. The real key comes in how you deal with your procrastination because no one can stay attentive 24/5 all week every second for years at a time. If you fail at this, your conversion rate will plummet.


Original first year anon here. I'll get my conversion rate up if... NYC GOES TO $200K LETS GO SKADDEN/LATHAM/KIRKLAND!!!

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 am

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


ur trolling

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Tell him to prioritize hiring Yale/Columbia grads and to cut TX office salaries to fund your raise for your high CoL offices (SF/NYC/DC).

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Great question, and your sincerity is obvious so no need to worry that others will regard your post as unserious.

The TL;DR is that associates as a group widely expect 200k and corresponding raises up the seniority scale and anything less will invariably be viewed as a middle finger to the middle class working folk grinding away at these firms.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Tell him to prioritize hiring Yale/Columbia grads and to cut TX office salaries to fund your raise for your high CoL offices (SF/NYC/DC).


I am not to editorialize in any way. He just wants the key points from this thread for his meeting. I'm flipping through it and think I'm getting most things.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Great question, and your sincerity is obvious so no need to worry that others will regard your post as unserious.

The TL;DR is that associates as a group widely expect 200k and corresponding raises up the seniority scale and anything less will invariably be viewed as a middle finger to the middle class working folk grinding away at these firms.


Yes one of the bullets is that "Readers are disappointed with the amount of raise, and the length of time it takes to provide such raise. They unanimously expected all firms to go to $200,000 for first years by June 6 at the latest. However, Cravath's refusal to go above $190,000 dashed their hopes."

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Great question, and your sincerity is obvious so no need to worry that others will regard your post as unserious.

The TL;DR is that associates as a group widely expect 200k and corresponding raises up the seniority scale and anything less will invariably be viewed as a middle finger to the middle class working folk grinding away at these firms.


Yes one of the bullets is that "Readers are disappointed with the amount of raise, and the length of time it takes to provide such raise. They unanimously expected all firms to go to $200,000 for first years by June 6 at the latest. However, Cravath's refusal to go above $190,000 dashed their hopes."


Not a bad bullet, but more true to the content of this thread would be: "Readers are disappointed with the limited amount of raise, and the length of time it takes to provide incremental raises largely viewed as priced below cost of living adjustments. Posters unanimously expected all firms to go to $200,000 or higher for first years. Cravath's reluctance to go above $190,000 coupled with continued silence from other top movers has raised expectations that a new market leader will emerge in coming days."

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:44 am

Thanks. The COLA point is a separate bullet because I have to fill this memo.

"Fueling their resentment -- readers calculated that $160,000 in 2008 is, adjusted for inflation, equivalent to approximately $199,000 today. This calculation was echoed on legal sites such as Above The Law."

"Readers said that once things settle, they would immediately seek to lateral to the market leader in salaries. A debate ensued over whether such a move was worth an extra $10,000 to $20,000 per year, but it was quickly and near unanimously resolved in favor of a move, with respondents noting the high cost of living in Manhattan and student loan payments."

"Greenberg Traurig published a letter warning against a raise, but they were swiftly lambasted by readers and websites such as Above The Law. See e.g., Elie Mystal, Greenberg Traurig Explains Why It’s Too Cheap To Raise Associate Salaries, Above The Law (June 13, 2018) available at https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/greenbe ... -salaries/.

"Readers noted that if firms are sincerely concerned about the cost of legal services and their clients, they should reduce the growth of their ever-increasing profits per partner as well."

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:53 am

V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks. The COLA point is a separate bullet because I have to fill this memo.

"Fueling their resentment -- readers calculated that $160,000 in 2008 is, adjusted for inflation, equivalent to approximately $199,000 today. This calculation was echoed on legal sites such as Above The Law."

"Readers said that once things settle, they would immediately seek to lateral to the market leader in salaries. A debate ensued over whether such a move was worth an extra $10,000 to $20,000 per year, but it was quickly and near unanimously resolved in favor of a move, with respondents noting the high cost of living in Manhattan and student loan payments."


All well-stated. Don't forget a bullet stating that summer bonuses have been widely accepted as a new market trend that will be priced and will operate independent of end-of-year bonuses.

In context, independent here means that, in addition to future payment of biannual bonuses, an overall increase to gross annual associate bonus compensation is expected to be seen from all profitable firms still competing to retain their reputations as top of market legal services providers.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Wild Card » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.


It's no secret that Skadden sucks.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby malibustacy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.


The one good thing about living in New York is that you can just start screaming in the middle of the subway after a bad day, and no one would even tell you to stop or even look at you. Should definitely take advantage.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.


This is a tremendous parody of a Skadden associate post.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V5 midlevel here but I don’t give a fuck abt my V5 and have zero loyalty to it bc it is a cheap POS (not DPW altho those posts still hilarious) I can’t fucking wait for the day that associates everywhere wake the fuck up and ding our Vault ranking cuz we don’t deserve it.

1. Skipped past all the posts debating which city is better. Honestly all you non-NYC bitches need to stfu. If you’re at a “national” firm, I PROMISE you that your NY offices subsidize the fuck out you. I don’t care what your nominal billable rate is. It’s either discounted or you’re not billing enough to be competitive with your New York office re revenue. I’m more than willing to concede that your quality of life is better. Ofc it is. New York ducking blows. but no one should pretend that you deserve to be paid the same as your NY counterparts unless you’re a litigation-heavy firm or lit boutique. LOL @ you SF/TX mofos thinking you generate enough revenue to be on equal footing with your NY peers. A part of me dies every time we have to pick up an engagement with an “up and coming startup client” from our California office at like 2/3 discount.

2. Did someone seriously ask if Proskauer NOLA matched?Why does Proskauer even have a NOLA office. Fucking gross.

3. Whoever said KE Houston is more profitable than NY had no idea wtf they’re talking abt. I’m not KE but it’s clear as day that your NY and DC offices are carrying the other offices re revenue and selectivity, respectively. Don’t get me wrong, if I was to work in TX, it would be KE.

4. Fuck you remaining V10’s (including my firm). You fucking pussies. Fucking losers.


This is a tremendous parody of a Skadden associate post.


100%. Lmao at this guy’s firm’s pure shit job at expansion. Pro tip kid: firms don’t expand to lose money. Sorry you need to lateral.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:33 am

Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.



Houston or Austin are absolutely better than Philly. Doesn't PA have income tax and require you to buy liquor from government stores at designated times?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby OneTwoThreeFour » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.



Houston or Austin are absolutely better than Philly. Doesn't PA have income tax and require you to buy liquor from government stores at designated times?


Also, how many Philly firms are at 180? Isn't it just 2-3? Morgan Lewis and Dechert?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bodegas suck. I don't need a cat that walks all over my damn hot dogs.

WaWa is 180190.

Philadelphia market is the superior balance of high wage to cost of living ratio without having to move to racist fuck-ville texas.

Prove me wrong.



Houston or Austin are absolutely better than Philly. Doesn't PA have income tax and require you to buy liquor from government stores at designated times?

So is Dallas.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby MaxMcMann » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
ternarydaemon wrote:As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).


I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.


Lit or corp?

Anonymous User
Posts: 320900
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:27 am

seems like must be lit

Anonymous User
Posts: 320900
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Tell him to prioritize hiring Yale/Columbia grads and to cut TX office salaries to fund your raise for your high CoL offices (SF/NYC/DC).


Lolz, so much TX jealousy ITT. Sorry you'll never be a homeowner or enjoy as high of a quality of life in SF/NYC/DC.



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