Buying a home in NYC with student loan debt Forum

[PowerBag21]

I am a third year at a V100 with $200k of student loan debt and about $60k of savings. I refi'd 2 years ago with FRB and am making minimum payments on my loans ($2300/month) with a 2026 maturity and investing the money I save each month. My parents have indicated that they would be willing to help me financially with a down payment/closing costs on a home. Is it worth buying in NYC now vs. continuing to rent for someone who's so highly leveraged? I am currently considering (1) whether I could even get a home loan with my current debt load, (2) whether now is a good time to buy in NYC and (3) whether it is worth the risk of taking on a great amount of additional debt. I would feel much better paying down a home loan each month and building equity vs. paying rent into the abyss, but somewhat understand the not-so-hidden costs of home ownership and potential implications of the new tax law, so I just don't know what to think. Also, it seems that most people my age/seniority at firms are renting and not thinking about buying anytime soon, so maybe I am just being silly. Any other junior/midlevel associates thinking about buying in NYC?

[runinthefront]

I am a third year at a V100 with $200k of student loan debt and about $60k of savings. I refi'd 2 years ago with FRB and am making minimum payments on my loans ($2300/month) with a 2026 maturity and investing the money I save each month. My parents have indicated that they would be willing to help me financially with a down payment/closing costs on a home. Is it worth buying in NYC now vs. continuing to rent for someone who's so highly leveraged? I am currently considering (1) whether I could even get a home loan with my current debt load, (2) whether now is a good time to buy in NYC and (3) whether it is worth the risk of taking on a great amount of additional debt. I would feel much better paying down a home loan each month and building equity vs. paying rent into the abyss, but somewhat understand the not-so-hidden costs of home ownership and potential implications of the new tax law, so I just don't know what to think. Also, it seems that most people my age/seniority at firms are renting and not thinking about buying anytime soon, so maybe I am just being silly. Any other junior/midlevel associates thinking about buying in NYC?

If your parents weren't rich enough to help you not take out $200k in loans, they probably can't help you with a big enough DP to make buying worth it. And anyway, buying in NYC absent being independently wealthy or job-secure is insane. Based on your student loan balance and the fact that you're a third year at an NYC biglaw shop, I'm going to guess neither criterion applies to you. I would keep renting until you think you're "in it" (i.e., on partner track or have developed enough transferable skills to never want for work in NYC) for the long haul.

[englawyer]

It is ok to buy with some student loans, but not with that much. I would try to get the balance down to at least 100k or so before thinking about buying. Too much leverage otherwise.

It is tough to time the market, but NYC real estate has a pretty good track record over the past few decades. Unfortunately, interest rates are trending upwards which weighs toward buying sooner rather than later. Although if this trend continues, home prices may drop because fewer buyers can afford to buy at higher rates. As you mentioned, it is also not clear whether the trump tax plan's MID + SALT changes have already been priced into the market. In theory, both should cause prices to decrease.

Some mid-levels do buy places, but when doing so your budget should be based on your "exit option" salary rather than your current salary given the inherent instability of large law firms. For example, mid-level in-house jobs in NYC now pay around 200k. If folks from your firm can usually get such jobs and you plan to do so as well if you get the talk, then you can use that salary as a proxy for your budget. Using the 3x rule, that would put your budget around 600k which would have you to look at mid-tier suburbs for homes or 2BR apartments in the outer boroughs. In Manhattan itself, you are looking at studios:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/31-W ... 3184_zpid/
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1092 ... 9518_zpid/
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 7865-21504

Given law firm statistics, you should also carefully consider whether an NYC "exit option" is really where you want to be in 5-10 years. In-house salaries go a lot further in North Carolina or Texas than NYC. If you are willing to move elsewhere, you would likely be able to get a much nicer/bigger home and live a more comfortable life. 200k in NYC does not go that far as you already know as an associate, but buying a place here will skew your future towards staying in the city.

[Toni V]

Hard to conceive paying $600k for any of those places. You must really love NYC to put up with that and the sock-it-to-you taxes they charge.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread because it's still helpful and relevant.

I have about $160k in student loan debt with little to no credit card debt and few other expenses (I don't have children or a spouse). I think the amount I pay in rent per month would almost equate to monthly mortgage payments, so while I don't think I'm *quite* yet ready to buy, I am hoping to buy in the next year or two, and foresee myself spending at least the next 7-10 years in NYC, if not longer.

For folks who did buy a house/apartment/condo when they were still juniors/mid-level associates, what do you wish you knew, how did you go about figuring out what you could afford (e.g. going to any consultants or just talking to your broker), etc.?

[icansortofmath]

There is nothing wrong with carrying low interest loan forever if you can get higher return than interest rate on debt.

NYC real estate was remarkably resilient even during financial crisis and I think you can expect relatively low risk 5-7% annual appreciation. If you will get any student loan forgiveness at al, it’s probably worth it. If not, I suspect it’s close to break even, though almost certainly still in favor of buying a home.

It is incredibly important that you budget based on 110-150k annual income. You don’t want to be stuck with a mortgage you can’t afford or feel stuck to a biglaw job you hate.

A typical 1 bedroom in Manhattan (that’s decent) starts around 800k. With 30 year mortgage. 25% down, 4% int rate, you’re looking at about 3k a month in mortgage payment. Add another 400 for common fees, 600 in property taxes, and you’re looking at 4K a month before you start looking at maintenance. If you’re paying this much in rent on 220k a year with no other sources of income, you’re doing the wealth building thing wrong.

All that said, I know a couple people that bought properties similar to what previous poster linked and rented out rooms. If you collect even 1000 in monthly rent (low figure so you can be very selective with tenants), you will have much more financial flexibility.

[Pomeranian]

Given your six figure debt and the fact that most big law associates get pushed out soon after the 3 year mark, I would think its unlikely you could get financing?

[Anonymous User]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think its a bad idea with the down payment help. I bought a house the summer I graduated (admittedly not in NYC, but a $500k place) with down pay help from parents and I had $209k in debt. I have since paid them back and while all my friends are now buying houses, I have 6 figures in equity in my house. Now, my market could be different, my mortgage is less than rent for a comparable size place after accounting for equity.

I think the rule is this: will your COST (so take away monthly equity build) be lower than if you were to rent (which is a cost). If you can rent for $3,000 and your mortgage cost (taking away equity paydown) will be $2,500, then you should buy. If you mortgage cost is going to be $3k or more, don't because home ownership will also come with repair costs and other expenses you cannot always plan for.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Even if you're not as debt-averse as the typical TLSer, there's a few things you may want to consider:

Have you considered monthly maintenance charges and property taxes (which wouldn't be deductible since the NY and NYC income tax would max out the deduction anyway) as part of your calculus? StreetEasy typically lists these.

Have you looked at down payment options/requirements? Some apt buildings, i.e., coops, require a greater than 20% down payment. That of course would be on top of closing costs.

I'm not sure if it's been updated, but the Times has a calculator for if it's better to rent or buy, maybe google that and check it out.

[LBJ's Hair]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think its a bad idea with the down payment help. I bought a house the summer I graduated (admittedly not in NYC, but a $500k place) with down pay help from parents and I had $209k in debt. I have since paid them back and while all my friends are now buying houses, I have 6 figures in equity in my house. Now, my market could be different, my mortgage is less than rent for a comparable size place after accounting for equity.

I think the rule is this: will your COST (so take away monthly equity build) be lower than if you were to rent (which is a cost). If you can rent for $3,000 and your mortgage cost (taking away equity paydown) will be $2,500, then you should buy. If you mortgage cost is going to be $3k or more, don't because home ownership will also come with repair costs and other expenses you cannot always plan for.

eh. it's not really that simple though because you're also putting down a massive downpayment of cash, tied up in a single home, which would otherwise invested in the substantially-more-diversified, higher returning, and more liquid equity market. plus annual property taxes, which can be absolutely back-breaking in some markets. plus loss of geographic flexibility.

if you know where you're going to live for the next 25 years and can borrow at favorable rates, sure buying makes sense. but if you'e just doing it as an investment, IDK.

[icansortofmath]

A lot depends on what your effective rates are. Student loans are 5-7%, but tax-deductible to some extent and there is potential for forgiveness, driving effective rates lower. Student loans with income driven plans also are less risky (due to income based repayment) than your typical loan, making the rate less onerous.

S&P 500 has been going at 7+% annualized return since like 1970, including the crashes in the middle, so if you have 20+ year investment horizon, you definitely should max out your tax deferred investment accounts (please, at least max out 401k if you got employer contribution) before you make more than minimum payment on your student loans.

It's a lot closer for real estate. NY Real Estate is ~4% on capital growth, minus about 1 to 1.5% to property taxes and common fees, minus maintenance 1% (which is like 8-12k a year if you really take care of your place, this is likely low), plus 3-4% for rent saved, and you're looking at basically breaking even vs. paying down loans assuming no forgiveness. There is also a risk/golden handcuff component when you get get yourself into a mortgage/ownership situation. Without more, from rental income for example, or parents giving interest free loan for a substantial downpayment, buying a home may be rough. However, it is still probably still marginally plus EV so it comes down to your risk tolerance and access to other financial resources (wife/parents for examples).

If you are going to get loans forgiven (you won't, if you keep big law salary or anything close to it), the picture gets more complicated.

[sparty99]

Do not buy a home. You have a significant student loan debt and even admitted that you are not able to buy a home for 1 to 2 years. In 2 years you could pay off your student loan debt and in year 3 you would have enough to buy a condo with a down payment. You would be wise to pay off your student loan debt significantly rather than buying a home.

[Neff]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

[2013]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

Not everyone wants to live in Texas. Some people like very urban cities, which neither Dallas nor Houston are.

[Neff]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

Not everyone wants to live in Texas. Some people like very urban cities, which neither Dallas nor Houston are.

Fair enough. I cannot deny that NYC has 10x the cultural life of anything in Texas, but it's one thing if you are a student or artist in NYC and another thing if you are a biglaw associate billing 2300+ with no time to experience anything. During busy stretches I personally feel like it doesn't matter one bit where I am or what is outside the office.

Of course, most people are in NYC because that's by far the biggest market, but I think more people should seriously consider CoL and their own financial end-game than just take the V10 in NYC for preftige's sake. The NYC white-collar life has always seemed to me one giant hamster wheel -- capitalist hoodwinking at its saddest and most absurd.

[LBJ's Hair]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

Not everyone wants to live in Texas. Some people like very urban cities, which neither Dallas nor Houston are.

Fair enough. I cannot deny that NYC has 10x the cultural life of anything in Texas, but it's one thing if you are a student or artist in NYC and another thing if you are a biglaw associate billing 2300+ with no time to experience anything. During busy stretches I personally feel like it doesn't matter one bit where I am or what is outside the office.

Of course, most people are in NYC because that's by far the biggest market, but I think more people should seriously consider CoL and their own financial end-game than just take the V10 in NYC for preftige's sake. The NYC white-collar life has always seemed to me one giant hamster wheel -- capitalist hoodwinking at its saddest and most absurd.

I think most of us work all these hours and make all this money precisely because we want to live in expensive cultural Meccas like New York. To each her own, but I like spending my Saturday evening with my friends, family, and/or s/o (all of whom live in New York City) eating at expensive restaurants or watching interesting theater productions. That's kinda what makes this grind worth it. Sure, you have $300K in savings and a massive house, but like....what's the point of being rich if you're in a low CoL cultural desert. What's the money for?

Now if you *love* Texas - for example, your friends and family and s/o and whatever are there - totally get it. Or if you hate working long hours and want to drop the student debt ASAP and move to a low-hour gig, also get it.

But if you've been putting in long hours for years, pulling $20K a month pre-tax to buy a massive house in a city you think is second-class and to build up a big pile of money like...who's really the one "hoodwinked by capitalism."

[nixy]

I don’t think the capitalist hamster wheel is any different in Texas than in NY - arguably it’s worse in Texas because you can pretend it’s different.

[BasilHallward]

I don’t think the capitalist hamster wheel is any different in Texas than in NY - arguably it’s worse in Texas because you can pretend it’s different.

I'm just one data point, but heavily disagree. Of course, this will be city and, more importantly, firm dependent. The bottom-line financial flexibility and accompanying opportunity to pull the rip cord and reinvent yourself personally or professionally is not pretend.

[BigLawer]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

Not everyone wants to live in Texas. Some people like very urban cities, which neither Dallas nor Houston are.

Fair enough. I cannot deny that NYC has 10x the cultural life of anything in Texas, but it's one thing if you are a student or artist in NYC and another thing if you are a biglaw associate billing 2300+ with no time to experience anything. During busy stretches I personally feel like it doesn't matter one bit where I am or what is outside the office.

Of course, most people are in NYC because that's by far the biggest market, but I think more people should seriously consider CoL and their own financial end-game than just take the V10 in NYC for preftige's sake. The NYC white-collar life has always seemed to me one giant hamster wheel -- capitalist hoodwinking at its saddest and most absurd.

I think most of us work all these hours and make all this money precisely because we want to live in expensive cultural Meccas like New York. To each her own, but I like spending my Saturday evening with my friends, family, and/or s/o (all of whom live in New York City) eating at expensive restaurants or watching interesting theater productions. That's kinda what makes this grind worth it. Sure, you have $300K in savings and a massive house, but like....what's the point of being rich if you're in a low CoL cultural desert. What's the money for?

Now if you *love* Texas - for example, your friends and family and s/o and whatever are there - totally get it. Or if you hate working long hours and want to drop the student debt ASAP and move to a low-hour gig, also get it.

But if you've been putting in long hours for years, pulling $20K a month pre-tax to buy a massive house in a city you think is second-class and to build up a big pile of money like...who's really the one "hoodwinked by capitalism."

Second class? I don't think there is one first class city in the country. I would argue that NYC/LA/Chicago/Houston/Dallas are all very much "first-class" cities. It is obvious you have not spent significant time in Houston or Texas in general. Houston is the most diverse city in America, has a decent arts and performance scene (sure, not as good as NY) and a food culture that is probably only second to NYC. I guess this would be a loss for someone who is an arts critic or a restaurateur, but a biglaw associate? Sorry, you would not be missing much. Austin has great trails, lakes, rivers and a culture that EVERYONE loves, I have yet to meet someone who hates Austin. I know many people who hate living in NYC, including my wife who previously lived there before moving to TX (and her family lived in NY for 20 years). Some people don't want to live in some tiny, old, noisy apartment. Sure you get to go to a fantastic show MAYBE once a week, but I get to go to a nice house every night. Is NY for you? sure, but sounds like you haven't lived in another big city to really compare it to. Also, your biglaw life is better than most if your Saturdays are constantly free to enjoy this "mecca" because I work most Saturdays and am lucky if I get to make it to dinner with friends.

[nixy]

I don’t think the capitalist hamster wheel is any different in Texas than in NY - arguably it’s worse in Texas because you can pretend it’s different.

I'm just one data point, but heavily disagree. Of course, this will be city and, more importantly, firm dependent. The bottom-line financial flexibility and accompanying opportunity to pull the rip cord and reinvent yourself personally or professionally is not pretend.

But that’s all still part of the capitalist hamster wheel, just maybe at a slightly different speed and under slightly more pleasant conditions. (But I’m really just being philosophical in a way that’s beyond the intent of the thread so will stop now.)

[LBJ's Hair]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

Not everyone wants to live in Texas. Some people like very urban cities, which neither Dallas nor Houston are.

Fair enough. I cannot deny that NYC has 10x the cultural life of anything in Texas, but it's one thing if you are a student or artist in NYC and another thing if you are a biglaw associate billing 2300+ with no time to experience anything. During busy stretches I personally feel like it doesn't matter one bit where I am or what is outside the office.

Of course, most people are in NYC because that's by far the biggest market, but I think more people should seriously consider CoL and their own financial end-game than just take the V10 in NYC for preftige's sake. The NYC white-collar life has always seemed to me one giant hamster wheel -- capitalist hoodwinking at its saddest and most absurd.

I think most of us work all these hours and make all this money precisely because we want to live in expensive cultural Meccas like New York. To each her own, but I like spending my Saturday evening with my friends, family, and/or s/o (all of whom live in New York City) eating at expensive restaurants or watching interesting theater productions. That's kinda what makes this grind worth it. Sure, you have $300K in savings and a massive house, but like....what's the point of being rich if you're in a low CoL cultural desert. What's the money for?

Now if you *love* Texas - for example, your friends and family and s/o and whatever are there - totally get it. Or if you hate working long hours and want to drop the student debt ASAP and move to a low-hour gig, also get it.

But if you've been putting in long hours for years, pulling $20K a month pre-tax to buy a massive house in a city you think is second-class and to build up a big pile of money like...who's really the one "hoodwinked by capitalism."

Second class? I don't think there is one first class city in the country. I would argue that NYC/LA/Chicago/Houston/Dallas are all very much "first-class" cities. It is obvious you have not spent significant time in Houston or Texas in general. Houston is the most diverse city in America, has a decent arts and performance scene (sure, not as good as NY) and a food culture that is probably only second to NYC. I guess this would be a loss for someone who is an arts critic or a restaurateur, but a biglaw associate? Sorry, you would not be missing much. Austin has great trails, lakes, rivers and a culture that EVERYONE loves, I have yet to meet someone who hates Austin. I know many people who hate living in NYC, including my wife who previously lived there before moving to TX (and her family lived in NY for 20 years). Some people don't want to live in some tiny, old, noisy apartment. Sure you get to go to a fantastic show MAYBE once a week, but I get to go to a nice house every night. Is NY for you? sure, but sounds like you haven't lived in another big city to really compare it to. Also, your biglaw life is better than most if your Saturdays are constantly free to enjoy this "mecca" because I work most Saturdays and am lucky if I get to make it to dinner with friends.

I *love* Austin. But there's no meaningful BigLaw presence.

Houston and Dallas are, to me, massive exurban parking lots. Not "cities" in a traditional sense. If you enjoy the big house, car, and sprawl, that's wonderful. It's a matter of taste.

[Neff]

I’ve lived in both Houston and NYC and agree with all of the contradictory sentiments stated above. I love the excitement and passion of NYC, but at the end of the day your freedom in life is determined by how much money you have in the bank. So to me the only path that makes sense is one that will help me reach $1 million net worth as fast as possible and GTFO of the hamster wheel. NOT the path where you bill nonstop in perpetuity while self-medicating with Michelin restaurants and shows and deluding yourself that you are somehow living “the life”. There may be confusion here between living in NYC as a bohemian fully absorbed in cultural life vs being a biglaw slave who happens to have a bed/closet in Manhattan.

[boredtodeath]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

There are ~20 million people in the NYC metro area. Lots of people live here as biglawyers because they grew up here and all of their friends and family live here. I could move to Texas, pay off my loans, and buy a McMansion - but I'd be alone.

[BigLawer]

How are there people still working biglaw in NYC (serious question). Why have they not yet all fled to cheaper CoL places?

Class of 2015 biglaw associate in TX. Paid off $90K in student loans, paid off $25,000 car, now have $300K in savings, about to close on new 2500-sq. ft house that cost only $430,000. No independent sources of wealth from family or spouse.

Moral of the story: move to TX to live the life.

Not everyone wants to live in Texas. Some people like very urban cities, which neither Dallas nor Houston are.

Fair enough. I cannot deny that NYC has 10x the cultural life of anything in Texas, but it's one thing if you are a student or artist in NYC and another thing if you are a biglaw associate billing 2300+ with no time to experience anything. During busy stretches I personally feel like it doesn't matter one bit where I am or what is outside the office.

Of course, most people are in NYC because that's by far the biggest market, but I think more people should seriously consider CoL and their own financial end-game than just take the V10 in NYC for preftige's sake. The NYC white-collar life has always seemed to me one giant hamster wheel -- capitalist hoodwinking at its saddest and most absurd.

I think most of us work all these hours and make all this money precisely because we want to live in expensive cultural Meccas like New York. To each her own, but I like spending my Saturday evening with my friends, family, and/or s/o (all of whom live in New York City) eating at expensive restaurants or watching interesting theater productions. That's kinda what makes this grind worth it. Sure, you have $300K in savings and a massive house, but like....what's the point of being rich if you're in a low CoL cultural desert. What's the money for?

Now if you *love* Texas - for example, your friends and family and s/o and whatever are there - totally get it. Or if you hate working long hours and want to drop the student debt ASAP and move to a low-hour gig, also get it.

But if you've been putting in long hours for years, pulling $20K a month pre-tax to buy a massive house in a city you think is second-class and to build up a big pile of money like...who's really the one "hoodwinked by capitalism."

Second class? I don't think there is one first class city in the country. I would argue that NYC/LA/Chicago/Houston/Dallas are all very much "first-class" cities. It is obvious you have not spent significant time in Houston or Texas in general. Houston is the most diverse city in America, has a decent arts and performance scene (sure, not as good as NY) and a food culture that is probably only second to NYC. I guess this would be a loss for someone who is an arts critic or a restaurateur, but a biglaw associate? Sorry, you would not be missing much. Austin has great trails, lakes, rivers and a culture that EVERYONE loves, I have yet to meet someone who hates Austin. I know many people who hate living in NYC, including my wife who previously lived there before moving to TX (and her family lived in NY for 20 years). Some people don't want to live in some tiny, old, noisy apartment. Sure you get to go to a fantastic show MAYBE once a week, but I get to go to a nice house every night. Is NY for you? sure, but sounds like you haven't lived in another big city to really compare it to. Also, your biglaw life is better than most if your Saturdays are constantly free to enjoy this "mecca" because I work most Saturdays and am lucky if I get to make it to dinner with friends.

I *love* Austin. But there's no meaningful BigLaw presence.

Houston and Dallas are, to me, massive exurban parking lots. Not "cities" in a traditional sense. If you enjoy the big house, car, and sprawl, that's wonderful. It's a matter of taste.

Lol, I mean, again, it sounds like you haven't spent significant time in either city. I live in a townhouse pretty close to everything and it cost over $500k, still affordable by NY standards, but def not a mcmansion and not THAT cheap. I can walk to multiple bars, restaurants, fitness studios (Define, Pure Bar, etc... even though I don't). Again, to each their own, but all this "NY is the Mecca" "everywhere else is second class" is just absurd. Some people love living in NYC, some despise it. Some love Houston, some hate it. It is all about what you value.

[sparty99]

That is great that you love Houston, no one cares. You still have Ted Cruz and its very conservative in the surrounding suburbs in both houston and dallas. They also have weird laws where you spank kids in high school. Its also very religious with methodists and baptists. The cost of living is cheap and your money goes farther, but who cares. This has nothing to do with OP. Some people dont like the suburban life which is Houston and dallas with sprawling suburbs. The night life in both dallas and houston do not compare to NYC or Chiago for that matter. And there are many people who do not like austin and think it is overrated. Its not even that large of a city. But you can do you. Enjoy Texas. No one envies you or cares.