Classes Forum
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Classes
As a 2L picking classes right now... how much do potential summer employers care what I take? Do they want to see a full semester or do they not really care? Should I just focus on what's best for my GPA?
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Re: Classes
How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
- UVA2B
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Re: Classes
If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
- cavalier1138
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Re: Classes
I think the only exception to the "no one cares" rule is that I've heard of multiple federal judges wanting to see Fed Courts and Evidence (or hear that you're taking them in 3L).
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- Mullens
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Re: Classes
I’m a junior corporate/transactional attorney in biglaw. While the firm as a whole doesn’t care what you take, it’s very helpful/somewhat expected for you to have taken securities regulation in law school if you want to do any capital markets work. It’s just such a big learning curve where having learned the basics in law school is almost necessary. I also place corporations and fed income tax in that category for M&A.
- BaiAilian2013
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Re: Classes
Another exception to this is that a knowledge-heavy niche group like tax, ECEB, or T&E might be mildly pleased to see relevant courses. And in the unusual situation where I as the interviewer happen to know that your school has lots of relevant courses, I personally would be put off if your schedule is filled up with a bunch of random other shit. For any of this to matter, someone in that group would have to be interviewing you (or on the hiring committee), but that's fairly likely at the callback stage if you've expressed an interest.UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
- Mullens
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Re: Classes
I also want to clarify that this and my post above are more applicable to 3L hiring, post-grad hiring, and what the attorneys you work with will expect when you start. No one cares during 2L OCI what you took as your one or two 1L electives except to the extent it explains or is Part of your narrative of why you want to work in a niche practice group.BaiAilian2013 wrote:Another exception to this is that a knowledge-heavy niche group like tax, ECEB, or T&E might be mildly pleased to see relevant courses. And in the unusual situation where I as the interviewer happen to know that your school has lots of relevant courses, I personally would be put off if your schedule is filled up with a bunch of random other shit. For any of this to matter, someone in that group would have to be interviewing you (or on the hiring committee), but that's fairly likely at the callback stage if you've expressed an interest.UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
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Re: Classes
So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
- UVA2B
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Re: Classes
I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.Anonymous User wrote:So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
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Re: Classes
Just based on my first few months working at a firm, it helped to take a couple classes related to my practice groups. Not because anyone cared but because the learning curve is steep as it is, and having a passing familiarity makes getting up to speed less painful.
You don't need to stack your schedule though. A couple relevant classes will do. Everything else can be whatever you want.
You don't need to stack your schedule though. A couple relevant classes will do. Everything else can be whatever you want.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- pancakes3
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Re: Classes
upperclass course selection is art, not science.
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Re: Classes
Does this apply to 3L OCI as well?UVA2B wrote:I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.Anonymous User wrote:So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
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Re: Classes
^ bump (for T13)Anonymous User wrote:Does this apply to 3L OCI as well?UVA2B wrote:I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.Anonymous User wrote:So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
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Re: Classes
3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.Anonymous User wrote:^ bump (for T13)Anonymous User wrote:Does this apply to 3L OCI as well?UVA2B wrote:I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.Anonymous User wrote:So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?UVA2B wrote:If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.Anonymous User wrote:How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interestsUVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.
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Re: Classes
This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.sparkytrainer wrote: 3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.
3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Classes
have you seen much 3L oci hiring the last 2 years? Because there hasn't been. There used to be in the past, but over the last 2 years with smaller classes, it is a rare exception to get a biglaw gig from 3l ociruninthefront wrote:This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.sparkytrainer wrote: 3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.
3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"
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Re: Classes
I've seen enough over the past two years from my rather small T13 to know that a person's shot is not essentially 0%sparkytrainer wrote:have you seen much 3L oci hiring the last 2 years? Because there hasn't been. There used to be in the past, but over the last 2 years with smaller classes, it is a rare exception to get a biglaw gig from 3l ociruninthefront wrote:This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.sparkytrainer wrote: 3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.
3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"
It's uncommon to land a biglaw job after not summering as a 2L. But 3L OCI is not rare enough to claim that "it's no longer a thing." If a person has the grades (and the school), they can land interviews and offers.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Classes
Out of the four first years (including me) at my firm, three were 3L hires. It's not impossible. It's just unpredictable.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classes
Would having 8/26 credits in seminars for 2L year look slack for 3L OCI? I haven't done a survey of my T13, but it seems like 8 credits in either some easy-curve clinic/practical work or seminar is the norm for 2L anyway so I don't see that a firm would mind but just wanna double checkruninthefront wrote:I've seen enough over the past two years from my rather small T13 to know that a person's shot is not essentially 0%sparkytrainer wrote:have you seen much 3L oci hiring the last 2 years? Because there hasn't been. There used to be in the past, but over the last 2 years with smaller classes, it is a rare exception to get a biglaw gig from 3l ociruninthefront wrote:This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.sparkytrainer wrote: 3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.
3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"
It's uncommon to land a biglaw job after not summering as a 2L. But 3L OCI is not rare enough to claim that "it's no longer a thing." If a person has the grades (and the school), they can land interviews and offers.
- pancakes3
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Re: Classes
clinic is by no means easy. the grade is cush but you're signing up for a shit ton of work.
same goes for writing classes. if you think cramming for an exam is bad - trying to pull 40 pages out of your ass is twice as bad, if not worse.
this isn't to say that there aren't easy electives but you should ask around a little bit before jumping to conclusions.
same goes for writing classes. if you think cramming for an exam is bad - trying to pull 40 pages out of your ass is twice as bad, if not worse.
this isn't to say that there aren't easy electives but you should ask around a little bit before jumping to conclusions.
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