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firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:24 am
by Anonymous User
Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am
by mvp99
I think all firms are perpetually searching for juniors. Its the nature of the system. Would need more details to maybe conclude that it is a red flag like the size of the office.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:51 am
by 2014
Doesn't strike me as any more or less of a red flag than big law generally.
Employment practices are often some of the most busy at firms and can also be highly technical so it's tough to find enough people with genuine interest to fill chairs. It's why they tend to be very lateral heavy groups even at full service firms. Don't think that makes the practice necessarily bad i'd just know what you are getting into (a code-based, high volume, high stress (employment disputes are often very sensitive) practice with what i assume at this firm is a large litigation component).
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:31 pm
by Anonymous User
Idk, as a counter-example, CWT seems to eternally be hiring capital markets associates, and it's not a secret why. (Highly leveraged group, terrible QoL).
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:37 pm
by KM2016
If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:32 pm
by sparty99
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:23 pm
by tyroneslothrop1
sparty99 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.
Lewis Brisbois pay is extremely low for what is essentially biglaw hours.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:29 pm
by RaceJudicata
tyroneslothrop1 wrote:sparty99 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.
Lewis Brisbois pay is extremely low for what is essentially biglaw hours.
Plenty of firms require big law hours for non big law pay. Red flag? I guess, but not unique to Lewis brisbois (have no clue what this firm is like/anything about them)
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:54 pm
by LaLiLuLeLo
RaceJudicata wrote:tyroneslothrop1 wrote:sparty99 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.
Lewis Brisbois pay is extremely low for what is essentially biglaw hours.
Plenty of firms require big law hours for non big law pay. Red flag? I guess, but not unique to Lewis brisbois (have no clue what this firm is like/anything about them)
It’s basically a grinder firm where hours are high because insurance is paying to defend employment suits. Definitely not ideal, but probably among the best you could do for employment defense. Alternatively, stick it out making shit money doing plaintiffs work and then strike out on your own/join a small firm. Certainly has the potential to be lucrative.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:55 pm
by Anonymous User
KM2016 wrote:If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.
It wasn't that firm but I am curious to know because I was thinking about applying there. Can you please share your insight (and potentially save me) into why Lewis Brisbois is bad and if there's something particularly bad with their LA office?
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:57 pm
by Anonymous User
sparty99 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.
Ogletree. I didn't want to make unfair comments against the firm if it is in fact a reputable firm.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:49 pm
by sparty99
Anonymous User wrote:KM2016 wrote:If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.
It wasn't that firm but I am curious to know because I was thinking about applying there. Can you please share your insight (and potentially save me) into why Lewis Brisbois is bad and if there's something particularly bad with their LA office?
Lewis Brisbois is insurance defense and the majority of insurance defense firms require 2,100 billable hours. Although, 2,100 insurance defense billing is a little difference billing then Big Law because there is usually actual work to do from 8 am to 06 pm so while it seems high (it is) it is not necessairly as if you are working 8 am to 10 pm because you usually have that work available to keep you busy all day.
Moreover, Lewis Brisbois will actually give you hands on litigation experience. You will do depositions, go to court, prepare litigation reports, position statements. I would probably work there 1-3 years then try to go to Seyfarth or Littler or the employment group of a big law firm. But I would join Lewis Brisbois employment if that's what I wanted to do. I don't know the pay, but 70-90k starting is decent if you don't get big law and you need to work 1 to 3 years and then try getting the big pay.
Also, Ogletree Deakins is one of the preeminent labor and employment firms.
Not to mention, it is so easy to go in-house if you have labor and employment experience. Additionally, almost every government agency does employment law so it is transferable to a lot of legal positions.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:55 pm
by sparty99
sparty99 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:KM2016 wrote:If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.
It wasn't that firm but I am curious to know because I was thinking about applying there. Can you please share your insight (and potentially save me) into why Lewis Brisbois is bad and if there's something particularly bad with their LA office?
Lewis Brisbois is insurance defense and the majority of insurance defense firms require 2,100 billable hours. Although, 2,100 insurance defense billing is a little difference billing then Big Law because there is usually actual work to do from 8 am to 06 pm so while it seems high (it is) you are not always working 8 am to 10 pm because you usually have that work available to keep you busy all day.
Moreover, Lewis Brisbois will actually give you hands on litigation experience. You will do depositions, go to court, prepare litigation reports, position statements. I would probably work there 1-3 years then try to go to Seyfarth or Littler or the employment group of a big law firm. But I would join Lewis Brisbois employment if that's what I wanted to do. I don't know the pay, but 70-90k starting is decent if you don't get big law and you need to work 1 to 3 years and then try getting the big pay.
Also, Ogletree Deakins is one of the preeminent labor and employment firms.
Not to mention, it is so easy to go in-house if you have labor and employment experience. Additionally, almost every government agency does employment law so it is transferable to a lot of legal positions.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:34 pm
by barkschool
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
Skadden hires new associates every year, some say for menial and mind numbing work, potential red flag
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:47 pm
by RaceJudicata
barkschool wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
Skadden hires new associates every year, some say for menial and mind numbing work, potential red flag
No, no, no. Drafting sig pages for BILLION dollar deals > than actually getting hands on experience on million dollar deals.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:40 pm
by Person1111
Anonymous User wrote:sparty99 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.
As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.
This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.
Ogletree. I didn't want to make unfair comments against the firm if it is in fact a reputable firm.
Ogletree is a very good employment defense firm (along with Littler and Seyfarth). I don't know anything about what it's like to work there, but I've used them as local counsel before and they seemed pretty easy to get along with.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:29 pm
by lolwat
Ogletree is solid as far as reputation goes. Lewis Brisbois... well, let's just say there are worse places you can go to if you couldn't get a biglaw gig, or if you really, really wanted to do insurance defense. Their pay is horrible, the quality of their lawyers is, with some exceptions, generally mediocre, and so on. The partners I've worked with there have been generally good to work with, but everyone's kind of friendly when you're on the same side.
If you want substantive experience I would look more towards trying to get into a high-end boutique firm doing the kind of work you want to do.
But back to the original topic, firms perpetually looking for junior associates isn't necessarily a red flag. Some firms don't do summer associate programs because it's expensive and total bullshit, so the way they get associates is to hire juniors with a year or two worth of experience instead. No idea if that's what Ogletree's doing.
Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:26 pm
by Anonymous User
lolwat wrote:Ogletree is solid as far as reputation goes. Lewis Brisbois... well, let's just say there are worse places you can go to if you couldn't get a biglaw gig, or if you really, really wanted to do insurance defense. Their pay is horrible, the quality of their lawyers is, with some exceptions, generally mediocre, and so on. The partners I've worked with there have been generally good to work with, but everyone's kind of friendly when you're on the same side.
If you want substantive experience I would look more towards trying to get into a high-end boutique firm doing the kind of work you want to do.
But back to the original topic, firms perpetually looking for junior associates isn't necessarily a red flag. Some firms don't do summer associate programs because it's expensive and total bullshit, so the way they get associates is to hire juniors with a year or two worth of experience instead. No idea if that's what Ogletree's doing.
That's what Ogletree in my market normally does.