best firm growth for the future? Forum
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best firm growth for the future?
Hi, what firm do you think is best positioned for the next 10 years based on previous growth etc? Some say Kirkland just based on huge growth last year? What do people think
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
Hold on, let me invent that time machine and I'll get back to you.
Seriously, no answer anyone can give will be accurate beyond 1-2 years. There's just too many variables involved.
Seriously, no answer anyone can give will be accurate beyond 1-2 years. There's just too many variables involved.
- Johann
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
outside the mega firms, there is probably some debate. but i dont think theres any debate the mega-firms at a general level will continue separating from the pack -- Kirkland, Latham, Skadden, should continue crushing. The other top NY based firms will always be steady since its the legal capitol of the world.
lit boutiques, IP boutiques, and other non-powerhouses are anyone's best guess and will be dependent on where the legal market heads and whcih firms have the right groups/partners.
lit boutiques, IP boutiques, and other non-powerhouses are anyone's best guess and will be dependent on where the legal market heads and whcih firms have the right groups/partners.
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
Out of curiosity, why would it be a good thing to work at the firm with the most aggressive growth? That doesn't seem obvious to me.
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
Lol I like how in the law people shit on firms for gaining market share as "aggressive growth." Neither Latham or Kirkland are rapidly spreading their footprint--just gaining a greater share of work. Hard to see how that is a negative.
It's amazing how much "old money" sensibilities pervade in big law.
It's amazing how much "old money" sensibilities pervade in big law.
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- notDINGBAT
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
That's a really bad question. At one point, Dewey was the fastest growing firm
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
- nealric
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
Your odds of doing this are a going to be about as successful as choosing the next hot stock. Actually worse, because at least public companies have to publish audited financials.Anonymous User wrote:Hi, what firm do you think is best positioned for the next 10 years based on previous growth etc? Some say Kirkland just based on huge growth last year? What do people think
- rpupkin
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
They're both adding attorneys, as you would expect. What do you mean by "footprint"?ghostoftraynor wrote:Lol I like how in the law people shit on firms for gaining market share as "aggressive growth." Neither Latham or Kirkland are rapidly spreading their footprint--just gaining a greater share of work.
- Lincoln
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
The bolded is especially true if the growth is built on giving lateral partners distribution guarantees. That's often what is happening when rainmakers leave pure lockstep firms.notDINGBAT wrote:That's a really bad question. At one point, Dewey was the fastest growing firm
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
When times are tough, the non-lockstep firm has to take from other partners to satisfy the guarantees promised to new laterals. Those other partners then feel (rightly) they are not getting their fair share, and leave (to the extent they have a book of business) for somewhere where they will. And all of sudden, Dewey.
- notDINGBAT
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
a lot of firms provide some king of origination bonus beyond lock-step, which is reasonable. But the guaranteed distributions are a huge problem.Lincoln wrote:The bolded is especially true if the growth is built on giving lateral partners distribution guarantees. That's often what is happening when rainmakers leave pure lockstep firms.notDINGBAT wrote:That's a really bad question. At one point, Dewey was the fastest growing firm
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
When times are tough, the non-lockstep firm has to take from other partners to satisfy the guarantees promised to new laterals. Those other partners then feel (rightly) they are not getting their fair share, and leave (to the extent they have a book of business) for somewhere where they will. And all of sudden, Dewey.
Mergers are also interesting - some firm mergers are great, others are a disaster. It really depends on the synergies and competing interests
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
Generally agree with all of this.That's a really bad question. At one point, Dewey was the fastest growing firm
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
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- Posts: 58
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:35 am
Re: best firm growth for the future?
To be fair though, OP's question was broad -- best positioned firm based on prior growth. The question was not: who's the fastest grower and that's a good thing full stop. Obviously, Dewey-style growth is a bad thing, but Kirkland/Latham growth numbers are not dangerous just because they're big. Nobody on this thread really has the information to argue that their growth is not sustainable/healthy.lolwat wrote:Generally agree with all of this.That's a really bad question. At one point, Dewey was the fastest growing firm
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
- Desert Fox
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- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm
Re: best firm growth for the future?
A partner I worked with lateraled to a new firm last year. I dunno how. He had literally no book of business, just scamming work off firm clients. He brought over one case from a firm client that settled in two months. And then literally hasn't gotten a case in 18 months. I hope that firm didn't prepay him for that shit lol.
One of the associates who went with has billed 200 hours in 18 months. lulz.
One of the associates who went with has billed 200 hours in 18 months. lulz.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- notDINGBAT
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:08 pm
Re: best firm growth for the future?
I hope that associate bails before s/he gets shitcannedDesert Fox wrote:A partner I worked with lateraled to a new firm last year. I dunno how. He had literally no book of business, just scamming work off firm clients. He brought over one case from a firm client that settled in two months. And then literally hasn't gotten a case in 18 months. I hope that firm didn't prepay him for that shit lol.
One of the associates who went with has billed 200 hours in 18 months. lulz.
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Re: best firm growth for the future?
Yeah. I get it. I just think it's the wrong thing to ask, unless the OP is trying to decide between a few firms that had huge growth or something.charliekelly33 wrote:To be fair though, OP's question was broad -- best positioned firm based on prior growth. The question was not: who's the fastest grower and that's a good thing full stop. Obviously, Dewey-style growth is a bad thing, but Kirkland/Latham growth numbers are not dangerous just because they're big. Nobody on this thread really has the information to argue that their growth is not sustainable/healthy.lolwat wrote:Generally agree with all of this.That's a really bad question. At one point, Dewey was the fastest growing firm
The better question is how stable is a firm, and how is it growing.
If a firm is growing too aggressively, there's a risk they can't handle it.
If growth is coming from poaching partners, those partners could leave at a moment's notice
If a firm is growing organically and slowly, turning associates into partners rather than adding outside partners, that's far better
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