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Dumb thread

Yes big law over pays u relative to your actual skills
Yes it sucks still
Yes you are a broken person if you can tolerate it for more than a few years

I particularly enjoy the 1st/2nd year associates unbridled optimism in this thread.

Look at the midlevels in your group. That is your life soon. You're fucked.

Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:God damn it I’m going to die alone

Just get back with Diane, Mr. Peanutbutter.

BayCat24 wrote:I particularly enjoy the 1st/2nd year associates unbridled optimism in this thread.

Look at the midlevels in your group. That is your life soon. You're fucked.

It's not all that bad. According to one guy in this thread you can leave at 6:00 every day and bill 2100 hours, presumably through fraudulent time entries.

i mean... clearly it's the money. i think some ppl get lucky and are placed in groups that they legitimately like (p jealous of friends doing antitrust, and fintech) but even then it only makes things marginally better. i don't think anyone enjoys the core of the BL experience (fucked up hours and mad-king superiors)

DC Boutique associate here.

I like it. 9:30-6:30p. Then 8:30p-9:30p or 10p. Sleep at 12. Weekends, I work on average 4 hours each day, try to do 8-12 so I have the whole day free.

baseline 60 hrs a week is "fucked up hours" and ppl tolerate it because ppl have normalized it - i would hope that nobody actually "like" it.

i just met up w LS friends for drinks last night and all of us were checking our phones the entire time and didn't have anything to talk about except work, or what non-lawyers in our lives were doing. it didn't hit me at the time that our lives had changed for the worse but reading this thread really triggered me.

pancakes3 wrote:baseline 60 hrs a week is "fucked up hours" and ppl tolerate it because ppl have normalized it - i would hope that nobody actually "like" it.

i just met up w LS friends for drinks last night and all of us were checking our phones the entire time and didn't have anything to talk about except work, or what non-lawyers in our lives were doing. it didn't hit me at the time that our lives had changed for the worse but reading this thread really triggered me.

This is so true. I didn’t realize until my SO called me out on it, and then I started paying attention to it. It also makes you so fucking boring for regular people to be around.

PS I don’t know what type of work y’all do but in 3+ years of Big Law I haven’t worked a single week that was M-F 9-6 where I actually had work during those hours.

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Anonymous User wrote:DC Boutique associate here.

I like it. 9:30-6:30p. Then 8:30p-9:30p or 10p. Sleep at 12. Weekends, I work on average 4 hours each day, try to do 8-12 so I have the whole day free.

It’s great that you like it and I’m not knocking that, but the idea that working 8-12 means you have the whole day free...

JusticeJackson wrote:I’m a 7th year. I find it mostly not bad, though I’m afraid this post is going to jinx it. I’m in lit, do mostly appeals, and work for partners that plan way ahead. Sometimes I bill in the 250 hours per month range. But it’s been in the 140s for the last 3 months (maybe why I’m content now). I’ll bill a little over 2000 for the year, not counting pro bono, which the firm says it counts.

My goal is to get to work early so I can get home as early as possible to spend time with my family, work out every day so I don’t feel like my job is ruining my life, eat every lunch at my desk so I can get home sooner, avoid anything that’s not billable, and never work weekends.

If I need to work late, I’ll just grind till 1 am or later since I figure there’s no utility in getting home right after my family goes to bed. Might as well get the hours in then.

There’s no doubt that getting staffed on a bad case with a bad partner would change all of this. I had that happen a few times when I was a junior and I was close to leaving law because of it.

Mostly appeals is where I started smirking enviously

Yeah, appeals work removes a lot of what makes big law bad

JusticeJackson wrote:My goal is to get to work early so I can get home as early as possible to spend time with my family

I feel like that doesn't really fit in law practice. I can't really see telling a partner "Hey, I'm leaving 2-3 hours earlier than other associates because I came in early." Boomer partners want to see the associates at their desks on their way out of the office.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:DC Boutique associate here.

I like it. 9:30-6:30p. Then 8:30p-9:30p or 10p. Sleep at 12. Weekends, I work on average 4 hours each day, try to do 8-12 so I have the whole day free.

It’s great that you like it and I’m not knocking that, but the idea that working 8-12 means you have the whole day free...

Yeah, which also means no Friday or Saturday nights if you need to be up and productive by 8 the next day.

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A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:DC Boutique associate here.

I like it. 9:30-6:30p. Then 8:30p-9:30p or 10p. Sleep at 12. Weekends, I work on average 4 hours each day, try to do 8-12 so I have the whole day free.

It’s great that you like it and I’m not knocking that, but the idea that working 8-12 means you have the whole day free...

fair point.

BayCat24 wrote:I particularly enjoy the 1st/2nd year associates unbridled optimism in this thread.

Look at the midlevels in your group. That is your life soon. You're fucked.

this is a really important point, though. Do goodwork while you're there but do not let yourself get sucked into mid level because it gets much worse

1styearlateral wrote:

JusticeJackson wrote:My goal is to get to work early so I can get home as early as possible to spend time with my family

I feel like that doesn't really fit in law practice. I can't really see telling a partner "Hey, I'm leaving 2-3 hours earlier than other associates because I came in early." Boomer partners want to see the associates at their desks on their way out of the office.

In the big law world, seems to be much more doable for specialists.

JusticeJackson wrote:

1styearlateral wrote:

JusticeJackson wrote:My goal is to get to work early so I can get home as early as possible to spend time with my family

I feel like that doesn't really fit in law practice. I can't really see telling a partner "Hey, I'm leaving 2-3 hours earlier than other associates because I came in early." Boomer partners want to see the associates at their desks on their way out of the office.

I’ve worked for some total douches, but all of them had gotten over this type of hypersensitive insistence on face time. I guess thank god this isn’t anything I’ve experienced.

There were times where I tried this and some douche partner still gave me an ASAP assignment at 6, which sucks when youve been there since 8.

Still, as a general rule, if I can get my hours in early, I’ve been able to leave way earlier.

Yeah, I mean if you can be strategic about your facetime and productivity while in the office I'm sure you can be there as little as is necessary. But as you said, it's a huge risk (IMO) to try and come in early so you can leave early because there are times when something comes up between 5-7 PM that you're expected to take care of. Those days gotta suck.

toast and bananas wrote:In the big law world, seems to be much more doable for specialists.

Yeah, if you can make yourself more valuable by being a specialist in a niche area or something, you'll probably have more pull to make your own hours. From a partner's perspective, as long as you're meeting hours and doing good work, it's probably best to let you do your own thing since they likely don't know shit about your practice area.

4th year at a NYC V30 here. My take is, yes, if you are in M&A in NYC at a big firm, it is very difficult to maintain a life with solid amounts of time for self, family, friends, hobbies. I purposefully avoided that group because of it. I am in a smaller group that is known for having more normal hours, though I certainly do get put on deals that require late nights and hectic times. I would say in a good period, I'm billing 160-200 hours a month, getting in at 9:30 and leaving at 6:30, and doing work whenever else is necessary. I have been at my firm for over 3 years and have only had to come in one time over the weekend, but I do still do a good amount of work from home on the weekends, whenever necessary. In the end, it's about weathering the difficult storms, planning ahead, making sure your spouse/family are on the same page and aware of what is going on, and taking advantage when things are slower. Firms vary in terms of face time requirements, but after a year or two of solidly demonstrating that you are reliable, responsive, and deliver good work product, you get a level of autonomy that makes it easy to juggle and fit things in when you can. That being said, it does require the attitude of "come what may", and you can't really get too upset when plans get cancelled or too excited when it all works out; best to stay even keel and balanced. That's my two cents.

lagamemnon wrote:Serious question:

Do those of you who enjoy working in biglaw have hobbies? Significant others? I don't understand how having an hour or two of free time, max, per day is sustainable over even a few years for a person with significant outside interests or a significant other, let alone both.

I didn't mind biglaw too much for the three years I did it. I had hobbies (rock climbing and cycling), though I didn't have as much time for them as I liked. I had a significant other who was in law school during the time, but no kids.

In order to have a family and hobbies over the long term, you have to be willing/able to be a "hero." Meaning, do things like go to your kid's soccer game, then log on and work from 9 to 2AM afterwards, then get up at 6 the next day and function. I've known people who have successfully done this, but it certainly isn't easy.

lagamemnon wrote:

Yugihoe wrote:

lagamemnon wrote:

Yugihoe wrote:Its fine when you give up and stop trying to do anything on weekdays except go to work and come home.

Working on weekends blows, though you can usually count on nothing happening on Friday night, and at least one of Sat or Sunday night even if you have to work during the daytime.

Yeah, this is my point though bro. It's only when you resign yourself to being a sort of half-person, like one of the Neutrals lingering outside of Dante's hell, that biglaw goes easy for you.

Well that's how it is bro. It's not like other jobs, you're on call 24-7. I meant specially to stop trying to make plans with other people. Big law is harder if you're single or alone, but i feel like it's not too bad if you have someone at home waiting for you, where you can be home bodies together. I can generally leave around 630- 7ish if there is a lul when things are slowing down and get home and log in again around 8 or 830. Can chill with my family, eat dinner at home, and relax while working. I was stressed in the beginning though when I was trying to make plans to go out and actually do things where I wouldn't have a computer around.

Save plans to do things for fri/weekend.

So you're agreeing with me. You can't have real hobbies or real time with your significant other (an hour of dinner isn't a relationship) and be a biglaw attorney.

How much more would you possibly want to see someone for? Generally my problem with women is I get bored of them quickly, seeing someone for an hour a day sounds ideal. Hopefully she's also a doctor/lawyer and tired most of the time - that way the relationship can last for years where you never get to see each other enough and are always looking forward to it. If I worked 9-5 and had to see the same woman every day for 6+ hours and then whole day on weekends, I'd be sick of her.

MaxMcMann wrote:

lagamemnon wrote:

Yugihoe wrote:

lagamemnon wrote:

Yugihoe wrote:Its fine when you give up and stop trying to do anything on weekdays except go to work and come home.

Working on weekends blows, though you can usually count on nothing happening on Friday night, and at least one of Sat or Sunday night even if you have to work during the daytime.

Yeah, this is my point though bro. It's only when you resign yourself to being a sort of half-person, like one of the Neutrals lingering outside of Dante's hell, that biglaw goes easy for you.

Well that's how it is bro. It's not like other jobs, you're on call 24-7. I meant specially to stop trying to make plans with other people. Big law is harder if you're single or alone, but i feel like it's not too bad if you have someone at home waiting for you, where you can be home bodies together. I can generally leave around 630- 7ish if there is a lul when things are slowing down and get home and log in again around 8 or 830. Can chill with my family, eat dinner at home, and relax while working. I was stressed in the beginning though when I was trying to make plans to go out and actually do things where I wouldn't have a computer around.

Save plans to do things for fri/weekend.

So you're agreeing with me. You can't have real hobbies or real time with your significant other (an hour of dinner isn't a relationship) and be a biglaw attorney.

How much more would you possibly want to see someone for? Generally my problem with women is I get bored of them quickly, seeing someone for an hour a day sounds ideal. Hopefully she's also a doctor/lawyer and tired most of the time - that way the relationship can last for years where you never get to see each other enough and are always looking forward to it. If I worked 9-5 and had to see the same woman every day for 6+ hours and then whole day on weekends, I'd be sick of her.

You sound charming. But I suppose particularly well suited to biglaw.

Legit can’t tell if this whole thread is flame. Y’all serious or what now?

Thread should be renamed “People who have Stockholm Syndrome”