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Hey All,

Looking for the normal stuff: substantive work experience, good pay, culture (though I know culture at Boies will be different b/c it's way smaller). What are your thoughts?

boies will give you better quality for work bc PW is hella leveraged and is not about lean staffing

both seem like profoundly unpleasant places to work

have you considered a smaller office? If you can get Boies maybe look to Patterson or a similar lit shop, if you can get it

This is also an odd time of year for this thread

OP here. That's my general sense. What about lateral options? How do Boies and PW compare in terms of lateral options?

ugh

Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

You drank the shit out of his Kool-Aid.

There may be another reason why you rarely see people go from Susman/Munger/Boies to a "V10."

runinthefront wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

You drank the shit out of his Kool-Aid.

There may be another reason why you rarely see people go from Susman/Munger/Boies to a "V10."

Yeah, that seems backwards.

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. That's my general sense. What about lateral options? How do Boies and PW compare in terms of lateral options?

I’d wager slightly better for Boies but only bc leaner staffing = actually having to do real work earlier on.

Again, tho, if you have these options you probably have less painful ones. Strongly suggest you consider those.

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

Why would anyone want to go from one of those ultra elite firms to a V10?

Anonymous User wrote: Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

This is completely incorrect. Boies has an outsized pipeline of laterals into (and out of) AUSA, DOJ, BigFed. Very few people lateral from Boies to another elite lit boutique, because why would they need to?

Anonymous User wrote:Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

I really, really, really, really hope you didn't rely on this V10 partner's advice when choosing firms, because literally the exact opposite is true.

Anonymous User wrote: Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

Associates at those firms don't transfer to V10s for the same reason Yale students don't transfer to Columbia. If you're a lit associate it'd be a clear downgrade (unique circumstances withstanding).

Anonymous User wrote:
Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

this is absolutely crazy

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

This is completely incorrect. Boies has an outsized pipeline of laterals into (and out of) AUSA, DOJ, BigFed. Very few people lateral from Boies to another elite lit boutique, because why would they need to?

Anonymous User wrote:Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

I really, really, really, really hope you didn't rely on this V10 partner's advice when choosing firms, because literally the exact opposite is true.

Well, someone smart enough to get offers from Boies/Susman or Munger surely wouldn't have heeded that advice.

outed for using anon as a license to be a dick

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

this is absolutely crazy

Not to pile on, but wanted to reiterate that this is nuts. The idea that Boies "closes doors" that PW doesn't is...wrong. You can go virtually anywhere from Boies/Susman/etc., but why would you want to? It's already pretty ideal if you're looking for big law environment, smaller firm and substantive work.

Also, at least in the D.C. office, a lot of people move between Boies and the government...like, constantly...I would assume that NYC office is somewhat similar, at least.

PW is a much larger firm - like waaaaay larger. Admittedly I haven't worked at either, but I imagine the size alone would shape your experience.

I don't have any real advice regarding the choices, but I'm a pw lit junior and have had a relatively good experience. It is a huge office though.

cron1834 wrote:

runinthefront wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

You drank the shit out of his Kool-Aid.

There may be another reason why you rarely see people go from Susman/Munger/Boies to a "V10."

Yeah, that seems backwards.

It does (as everyone is saying), though you could make an argument that Boies is closer to PW than it is to Susman/Munger. Boies isn't old-school big law, but I think of it more as a Quinn/PW kind of shop (albeit with better compensation) and less of a Susman/Keker/W&C/MTO kind of place.

rpupkin wrote:

cron1834 wrote:

runinthefront wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

You drank the shit out of his Kool-Aid.

There may be another reason why you rarely see people go from Susman/Munger/Boies to a "V10."

Yeah, that seems backwards.

It does (as everyone is saying), though you could make an argument that Boies is closer to PW than it is to Susman/Munger. Boies isn't old-school big law, but I think of it more as a Quinn/PW kind of shop (albeit with better compensation) and less of a Susman/Keker/W&C/MTO kind of place.

Well, while we didn't necessarily need 10 people to pile on, it is good that crowd-sourcing managed to clarify for this anon

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

LMAO. Either you are a troll or an advanced spam robot. I refuse to believe someone is this naive. Coming from V10! lawyer if you doubt my creds.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

LMAO. Either you are a troll or an advanced spam robot. I refuse to believe someone is this naive. Coming from V10! lawyer if you doubt my creds.

Sorry accidental anon

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

LMAO. Either you are a troll or an advanced spam robot. I refuse to believe someone is this naive. Coming from V10! lawyer if you doubt my creds.

That's a little harsh. When I was a rising 2L doing OCI, partners at various firms said all sorts of bullshit to me that sounded believable at the time. It's tough for law students to know what's accurate. Though, if this anon poster is a 2L, I suppose it's fair to mock him for giving professional advice based on his "sense that [someone else's] advice was accurate."

rpupkin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Where you want to lateral is important to consider. PW places a lot of people as AUSAs, especially in SDNY/EDNY. A lot of their partners participate in the revolving door between firms/DOJ, and so have connections that can be useful for getting associates jobs at the latter. Boies will probably make it easier to lateral into another litigation boutique.

Not that you can't go Boies to AUSA or PW to boutique -- I'm sure many people do that each year -- but there is also a discernible trend.

Also, one thing that was useful to me when making a similar decision was a v10 partner telling me that you can always go v10 to Boies/Susman/Munger/etc. but rarely if ever the other way around. Going to PW doesn't close doors in the same way starting at Boies does. Of course he had a stake in the game, but I got the sense that his advice was accurate.

LMAO. Either you are a troll or an advanced spam robot. I refuse to believe someone is this naive. Coming from V10! lawyer if you doubt my creds.

That's a little harsh. When I was a rising 2L doing OCI, partners at various firms said all sorts of bullshit to me that sounded believable at the time. It's tough for law students to know what's accurate. Though, if this anon poster is a 2L, I suppose it's fair to mock him for giving professional advice based on his "sense that [someone else's] advice was accurate."

And yet, the original anon made several either patently false or negligently misleading comments all in one post. Doesn't TLS exist for the very purpose of dispelling inaccuracies, rather than perpetuating them? I for one see nothing wrong with us giving them a hard time for something they could have refuted through 30 seconds of searching past threads on this forum.

It does (as everyone is saying), though you could make an argument that Boies is closer to PW than it is to Susman/Munger. Boies isn't old-school big law, but I think of it more as a Quinn/PW kind of shop (albeit with better compensation) and less of a Susman/Keker/W&C/MTO kind of place.

What are our thoughts on this hot take?

FWIW: Check the Chambers & Partners attorney rankings. Boies has NOBODY through BAND FOUR even ranked (in NYC) aside from Boies and Schiller. Idk what that means for a 1st year associate, but it may say something about the quality of potential partners you might be able to work with.

FWIW: Check the Chambers & Partners attorney rankings. Boies has NOBODY through BAND FOUR even ranked (in NYC) aside from Boies and Schiller. Idk what that means for a 1st year associate, but it may say something about the quality of potential partners you might be able to work with.

SOLID anon post.

Anonymous User wrote:

FWIW: Check the Chambers & Partners attorney rankings. Boies has NOBODY through BAND FOUR even ranked (in NYC) aside from Boies and Schiller. Idk what that means for a 1st year associate, but it may say something about the quality of potential partners you might be able to work with.

SOLID anon post.

The irony is amazing.