Path to AUSA Position Forum

[Anonymous User]

I would like to be an AUSA. I have had interviews without any luck.

I have big law and clerkship experience (I am currently clerking). I am considering trying to be an ADA to get trial experience, but I have no desire to be a career ADA. I am concerned that I would be unable to go back to private practice if I am an ADA. I am also considering trying to be a SAUSA, but I have the same concerns about being unable to go back to private practice.

Ultimately, my top goal is to be an AUSA or to return to private practice. I fear that returning to private practice would not make me a more competitive AUSA applicant.

Can anyone offer some advice?

[Anonymous User]

I'd apply to AUSA jobs as the primary path (just like you're doing).

If you don't get any bites, get a SAUSA position liek you mentioned. As long as you can afford it, it's fantastic. Most of the time, it does not translate into AUSA position but it's very easy to go back to big law after 1 or 2 years as a SAUSA. Then take your time applying to AUSA positions again, this time with SAUSA on the resume.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thank you for your reply! Is there any reason why being an SAUSA does not translate into an AUSA position? I have made it to the final round in AUSA interviews on multiple occasions and was hoping that being an SAUSA would help me to more quickly obtain a position as an AUSA.

[Anonymous User]

I would like to be an AUSA. I have had interviews without any luck.

I have big law and clerkship experience (I am currently clerking). I am considering trying to be an ADA to get trial experience, but I have no desire to be a career ADA. I am concerned that I would be unable to go back to private practice if I am an ADA. I am also considering trying to be a SAUSA, but I have the same concerns about being unable to go back to private practice.

Ultimately, my top goal is to be an AUSA or to return to private practice. I fear that returning to private practice would not make me a more competitive AUSA applicant.

Can anyone offer some advice?

OP if you don't mind me asking, what has your career been like up to your current clerkship? Were you in biglaw beforehand? If so, for how long? I too want to be an AUSA, but am clerking straight out of school right now and am going into biglaw afterwards.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, I was in biglaw before clerking for about three years.

[Anonymous User]

Current DOJ attorney here.

From personal experience and observation, becoming an AUSA will depend on multiple factors.
If you are targeting a large city office, biglaw and a clerkship really helps.

I would not recommend you become an ADA, it will not help your applications unless you are trying to break into a smaller, rural, USAO office.

I would also try to use your judge, especially if she/he was a former USAO in an office you want to go, for contacts and networking.

If all else fails go back to biglaw with your clerkship bonus. You can always apply later to the USAO, but it is true that the longer you are in biglaw the less likely you are to make the jump. The sweet spot for biglaw to USAO is around year 3-6.

Good luck!

[JakeTappers]

I would like to be an AUSA. I have had interviews without any luck.

I have big law and clerkship experience (I am currently clerking). I am considering trying to be an ADA to get trial experience, but I have no desire to be a career ADA. I am concerned that I would be unable to go back to private practice if I am an ADA. I am also considering trying to be a SAUSA, but I have the same concerns about being unable to go back to private practice.

Ultimately, my top goal is to be an AUSA or to return to private practice. I fear that returning to private practice would not make me a more competitive AUSA applicant.

Can anyone offer some advice?

Hate to hijack (but not so much that i will refrain) but care to share any tips for getting interviews and and getting to final round and/or what has precluded you from getting past the final round? This comes with the caveat that I am likely your competition. 3.5 years biglaw then dual clerkships. Starting to apply now, planning on hitting all AUSA offices I can and then biglaw apps next month or so. Thus far, one bite in a major market and not much else.

[Anonymous User]

I would like to be an AUSA. I have had interviews without any luck.

I have big law and clerkship experience (I am currently clerking). I am considering trying to be an ADA to get trial experience, but I have no desire to be a career ADA. I am concerned that I would be unable to go back to private practice if I am an ADA. I am also considering trying to be a SAUSA, but I have the same concerns about being unable to go back to private practice.

Ultimately, my top goal is to be an AUSA or to return to private practice. I fear that returning to private practice would not make me a more competitive AUSA applicant.

Can anyone offer some advice?

What's so appealing about being an AUSA to you? The pay is low compared to other federal prosecutors (Main Justice) and very very low compared to other federal regulators (CFPB, SEC, etc). While you get significant court time, it isn't like you're going to trial every day. 90% of the cases plead out. You say you're worried about being an AUSA because it will limit you from moving back to private practice. Well, so will becoming an AUSA unless you're able to join a sexy unit like Cyber or Fraud.

[andythefir]

I would like to be an AUSA. I have had interviews without any luck.

I have big law and clerkship experience (I am currently clerking). I am considering trying to be an ADA to get trial experience, but I have no desire to be a career ADA. I am concerned that I would be unable to go back to private practice if I am an ADA. I am also considering trying to be a SAUSA, but I have the same concerns about being unable to go back to private practice.

Ultimately, my top goal is to be an AUSA or to return to private practice. I fear that returning to private practice would not make me a more competitive AUSA applicant.

Can anyone offer some advice?

This is a weird disjunctive, AUSA or private practice. Except for the meat grinder districts, the gigs are super different. 1 pays super well, but sucks as a job. The other pays pretty badly (considering how hard it is to get), but is an awesome job. Lots of in between jobs: DA, AG, other federal agency.

As for the substance of your question, no one can answer that until we know if you're targeting 1 any USAO, 2 a big town's USAO, or 3 a specific USAO.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack, but I left biglaw for a non-DOJ agency and I've also wondered what the draw of an AUSA spot is as well. AUSA's handle (most) of our district court cases while we sort of act as the AUSA's "client." Seems like the AUSAs work much longer hours and get paid less than the attorneys here at my agency. Not sure why anyone would want to be in that situation.

[Anonymous User]

I mean, you're right wrt pay and hours, but some people like being prosecutors, running cases and being in court (I know that tons of cases settle, but comparatively speaking), and it pays way better than most state prosecution gigs.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I personally don't like criminal law and if I was doing that work would lean more toward the defense side. I think AUSA is prized because if you do it and do well you can lateral to big law partner and at that point you have lots of courtroom and other substantive experience. There's an easier chance to become a big law partner via AUSA than by grinding it out at the firm.

[Anonymous User]

I personally don't like criminal law and if I was doing that work would lean more toward the defense side. I think AUSA is prized because if you do it and do well you can lateral to big law partner and at that point you have lots of courtroom and other substantive experience. There's an easier chance to become a big law partner via AUSA than by grinding it out at the firm.

That is certainly the lore but I don't think this is quite as true any more as is often said. I'm sure it does still happen, because you have a lot of discussion here of people making connections with former AUSAs in their firms as a way to get an AUSA gig. But I think this is primarily the case for a few, big, prestigious offices. Maybe it's because I've spent my time in more flyover offices, but most AUSAs don't work at SDNY or EDVA or the like and many don't do work that's going to transfer directly to biglaw. The vast majority of AUSAs I've seen leave either 1) go to another USAO 2) go to a more specialized section of Main Justice (it's true that doing so may make it easier to make biglaw partner, but it will depend on what division. The Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section isn't likely to do it, for instance); 3) go into criminal defense; or 4) become a judge (often magistrate to start). I know only one person who went to a biglaw firm as partner, and they went pretty high up in DOJ admin first.

(Now, it may be that when people on TLS talk about going AUSA they only mean the fancy SDNY/EDVA type offices, which is cool if that works out for them, but I don't think those few major offices are actually that representative of most AUSAs' experiences.)

[andythefir]

I mean, you're right wrt pay and hours, but some people like being prosecutors, running cases and being in court (I know that tons of cases settle, but comparatively speaking), and it pays way better than most state prosecution gigs.

Being a prosecutor is a blast. If I had to quit being a prosecutor I'd leave the profession. But that's why it's weird plan A AUSA plan B biglaw. If you want to be a prosecutor, be a prosecutor. It's a completely different lifestyle than a big firm. You also might think AUSAs make a lot more than they do. I've known some state prosecutors who took pay cuts to go federal.

AUSA is a cool job because you 1 work cool cases 2 in front of good judges 3 with good substantive and procedural law 4 with very high levels of autonomy 5 occasionally doing trials 6 with pretty great work/life balance (in some jurisdictions) while 7 getting paid pretty well, but not super well.

[dixiecupdrinking]

A lot of good advice in this thread, but I'd also just note that if OP is getting to the final round of AUSA interviews, then I'd probably just stay the course, since from my understanding it's luck as much as anything at that stage. Haven't applied myself but I know really well qualified people with great recommendations in their corner who haven't gotten past that stage, and it just seems like a numbers game.

[Anonymous User]

I mean, you're right wrt pay and hours, but some people like being prosecutors, running cases and being in court (I know that tons of cases settle, but comparatively speaking), and it pays way better than most state prosecution gigs.

Being a prosecutor is a blast. If I had to quit being a prosecutor I'd leave the profession. But that's why it's weird plan A AUSA plan B biglaw. If you want to be a prosecutor, be a prosecutor. It's a completely different lifestyle than a big firm. You also might think AUSAs make a lot more than they do. I've known some state prosecutors who took pay cuts to go federal.

AUSA is a cool job because you 1 work cool cases 2 in front of good judges 3 with good substantive and procedural law 4 with very high levels of autonomy 5 occasionally doing trials 6 with pretty great work/life balance (in some jurisdictions) while 7 getting paid pretty well, but not super well.

I'm the anon above, but not the OP. You don't have to convince me. And I'm not claiming that the pay is anything like big law, just that in all the states where I've worked, AUSAs make more than state prosecutors. I think California is an exception and there may well be others.

[Anonymous User]

I personally don't like criminal law and if I was doing that work would lean more toward the defense side. I think AUSA is prized because if you do it and do well you can lateral to big law partner and at that point you have lots of courtroom and other substantive experience. There's an easier chance to become a big law partner via AUSA than by grinding it out at the firm.

That is certainly the lore but I don't think this is quite as true any more as is often said. I'm sure it does still happen, because you have a lot of discussion here of people making connections with former AUSAs in their firms as a way to get an AUSA gig. But I think this is primarily the case for a few, big, prestigious offices. Maybe it's because I've spent my time in more flyover offices, but most AUSAs don't work at SDNY or EDVA or the like and many don't do work that's going to transfer directly to biglaw. The vast majority of AUSAs I've seen leave either 1) go to another USAO 2) go to a more specialized section of Main Justice (it's true that doing so may make it easier to make biglaw partner, but it will depend on what division. The Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section isn't likely to do it, for instance); 3) go into criminal defense; or 4) become a judge (often magistrate to start). I know only one person who went to a biglaw firm as partner, and they went pretty high up in DOJ admin first.

(Now, it may be that when people on TLS talk about going AUSA they only mean the fancy SDNY/EDVA type offices, which is cool if that works out for them, but I don't think those few major offices are actually that representative of most AUSAs' experiences.)

Not the anon above but I think this is pretty spot on. SDNY and EDVA are the two of the three most selective and prestigious USAOs in the country (along with EDNY). Even if you're an AUSA there, it's hard to become a partner at a big law firm.

As the anon above said the people being hired are people who have had really substantial leadership or supervisory positions. Line AUSAs making partner is a thing of the past.

I think it may swing back, however, because a lot of that hiring was by virtue of Obama era DOJ people leaving as his second term was winding down. Now that there's a new administration with not a lot of supervisors/AAG types on the market, firms might look to line AUSAs again to fill their white collar needs. I don't have any idea though.

Even if it did swing back, you still have to probably be at Sdny edny edva etc to have a realistic shot.

[andythefir]

That is certainly the lore but I don't think this is quite as true any more as is often said. I'm sure it does still happen, because you have a lot of discussion here of people making connections with former AUSAs in their firms as a way to get an AUSA gig. But I think this is primarily the case for a few, big, prestigious offices. Maybe it's because I've spent my time in more flyover offices, but most AUSAs don't work at SDNY or EDVA or the like and many don't do work that's going to transfer directly to biglaw. The vast majority of AUSAs I've seen leave either 1) go to another USAO 2) go to a more specialized section of Main Justice (it's true that doing so may make it easier to make biglaw partner, but it will depend on what division. The Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section isn't likely to do it, for instance); 3) go into criminal defense; or 4) become a judge (often magistrate to start). I know only one person who went to a biglaw firm as partner, and they went pretty high up in DOJ admin first.

(Now, it may be that when people on TLS talk about going AUSA they only mean the fancy SDNY/EDVA type offices, which is cool if that works out for them, but I don't think those few major offices are actually that representative of most AUSAs' experiences.)

[/quote]

It's also super important to note that there are tiers of difficulty in getting into the USAO. EDVA/SDNY/NDCA>Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas, Chicago>Bangor, Las Cruces, Yuma. SDNY seems to be a real meat grinder re hours/expectations, and I'd bet folks move back and forth from biglaw much more frequently there than, say, Van Horn.

As it pertains to the original post, if you're trying to get into SDNY you would take a very different track than SDTX Van Horn. SDNY shoot for the usual prestige signs-fancy clerkship, fancy firm. SDTX demonstrate competence in handling a caseload (either criminal or running your own civil cases), give the interviewers the feel you won't need to be babysat, and convince the office they won't have to train you re how to do trials.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thank you for all of your responses.

I am willing to relocate to be an AUSA, but if I am never able to obtain a position as an AUSA, then my strong preference is to remain where I am currently clerking. I will likely soon have an opportunity to work at a firm that is far from my preferred geographic location, but, unfortunately, my preferred geographic location does not have many firm jobs and is over saturated with attorneys. I will also have an opportunity to be an ADA in a location that is far from my preferred location, but my preferred location does not have any ADA spots. Given these circumstances, I am not sure whether I should continue clerking while trying to obtain an AUSA spot, go to a firm while trying to obtain an AUSA spot, or go be an ADA while trying to obtain an AUSA spot.

Some have pointed out that my issue is disjunctive because being an AUSA vs. being in private practice is very different. However, I am not interested in being a career ADA because I do not think that I would enjoy being in court every day. I like research and writing as well, which is why being an AUSA would be my ideal career. That is also why I would prefer to go back to firm life if I am unable to be an AUSA. I'm between 6-8 years out of law school, and I have not worked at a law firm for over 3 years, as I have been clerking (in different courts) during that time. If I return to working at a law firm, would USAOs view me as not being committed to wanting to serve as an AUSA? If so, then should I try to obtain an SAUSA spot? I think that I would love to be an SAUSA, but I struggle with the idea of no income/limited benefits and the possibility of still never becoming an AUSA. While I have made it to the final round in the past, I have not had much luck at all this year. I get referred but have not yet had any interviews.

[andythefir]

OP here. Thank you for all of your responses.

I am willing to relocate to be an AUSA, but if I am never able to obtain a position as an AUSA, then my strong preference is to remain where I am currently clerking. I will likely soon have an opportunity to work at a firm that is far from my preferred geographic location, but, unfortunately, my preferred geographic location does not have many firm jobs and is over saturated with attorneys. I will also have an opportunity to be an ADA in a location that is far from my preferred location, but my preferred location does not have any ADA spots. Given these circumstances, I am not sure whether I should continue clerking while trying to obtain an AUSA spot, go to a firm while trying to obtain an AUSA spot, or go be an ADA while trying to obtain an AUSA spot.

Some have pointed out that my issue is disjunctive because being an AUSA vs. being in private practice is very different. However, I am not interested in being a career ADA because I do not think that I would enjoy being in court every day. I like research and writing as well, which is why being an AUSA would be my ideal career. That is also why I would prefer to go back to firm life if I am unable to be an AUSA. I'm between 6-8 years out of law school, and I have not worked at a law firm for over 3 years, as I have been clerking (in different courts) during that time. If I return to working at a law firm, would USAOs view me as not being committed to wanting to serve as an AUSA? If so, then should I try to obtain an SAUSA spot? I think that I would love to be an SAUSA, but I struggle with the idea of no income/limited benefits and the possibility of still never becoming an AUSA. While I have made it to the final round in the past, I have not had much luck at all this year. I get referred but have not yet had any interviews.

Some USAs insist on a public service background because they're afraid you'll do 2 years and then leverage the experience to a bigger firm. If possible, continuing to clerk until you get an AUSA offer somewhere>transfer to your preferred jurisdiction when a spot opens up is the best strategy.

It sounds like you'd be a much better fit in a large, big city office than a small office if you don't like being in court and prefer research/writing. There are also appellate sections in most offices, which sounds like where you really want to be. If it were me, I'd work as a DA and spam every opening across the country. You'll lose out on the big salary, but your package would be crazy competitive in almost any jurisdiction.

You also implied the SAUSAs don't get paid, which isn't usually accurate. SAUSAs are usually employees of a city/state/grant funded agency whose job it is to report to a USAO. Some report just like a regular AUSA, some go one day/week, it depends on the host agency.

[A. Nony Mouse]

There are actually two kinds of SAUSAs. One is the kind you describe, but there are also unpaid SAUSAs not associated with another state/federal agency (basically a way for the USAO to get free labor).

[andythefir]

There are actually two kinds of SAUSAs. One is the kind you describe, but there are also unpaid SAUSAs not associated with another state/federal agency (basically a way for the USAO to get free labor).

I was under the impression most of those advertised free-labor-looking SAUSA spots are actually invitations for state agencies to volunteer their people. A question I've had is what kind of paperwork would it take to create one of those totally unpaid SAUSA positions. If you went to a given USAO and said "I will literally work for you for free" what kind of paperwork would it take if they wanted to do it?

[A. Nony Mouse]

There are actually two kinds of SAUSAs. One is the kind you describe, but there are also unpaid SAUSAs not associated with another state/federal agency (basically a way for the USAO to get free labor).

I was under the impression most of those advertised free-labor-looking SAUSA spots are actually invitations for state agencies to volunteer their people. A question I've had is what kind of paperwork would it take to create one of those totally unpaid SAUSA positions. If you went to a given USAO and said "I will literally work for you for free" what kind of paperwork would it take if they wanted to do it?

No, they're not - the free-labor-looking SAUSAs are, in fact, free labor. The state/other agency stuff is worked out based on agency needs and attorney expertise (I guess I can't say that state agencies *never* their volunteer people in response to free SAUSA job postings, but I don't think that's what they're for; I've never known a state/other agency SAUSA that got the job that way, and I personally know three free labor SAUSAs, two of whom worked with a number of other free labor SAUSAs).

I don't know what paperwork would be required to set up one. Given federal bureaucracy, probably a lot.

[Anonymous User]

There are actually two kinds of SAUSAs. One is the kind you describe, but there are also unpaid SAUSAs not associated with another state/federal agency (basically a way for the USAO to get free labor).

I was under the impression most of those advertised free-labor-looking SAUSA spots are actually invitations for state agencies to volunteer their people. A question I've had is what kind of paperwork would it take to create one of those totally unpaid SAUSA positions. If you went to a given USAO and said "I will literally work for you for free" what kind of paperwork would it take if they wanted to do it?

No, they're not - the free-labor-looking SAUSAs are, in fact, free labor. The state/other agency stuff is worked out based on agency needs and attorney expertise (I guess I can't say that state agencies *never* their volunteer people in response to free SAUSA job postings, but I don't think that's what they're for; I've never known a state/other agency SAUSA that got the job that way, and I personally know three free labor SAUSAs, two of whom worked with a number of other free labor SAUSAs).

I don't know what paperwork would be required to set up one. Given federal bureaucracy, probably a lot.

OP here. The SAUSAs positions that I was looking into would be unpaid and would require me to move. If you don't mind answering, what happened to the three SAUSAs you know?

[A. Nony Mouse]

One got hired as a permanent AUSA in the same office where they were a SAUSA, one got hired as a permanent AUSA in a different office from where they were a SAUSA, one is in a temporary (but paid) AUSA position in a different office.