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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:02 pm

Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
I know a couple of associates that lateraled from there to my firm -

#notevenonce

Big Law sucks no matter what, but some places just seem like they are trying to make it worse. Paul Hastings is one such place.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
I predict a lot of biglaw firms will be doing this in the next few years. If you want to do anything else at Ropes you're probably fine.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
Don't think this bodes well for Nixon Peabody either:

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/08/biglaw-f ... nterviews/
Just finished Nixon summer here. The problem has been because the classes are so small since 2009/2010, the firm hasn't been doing OCI at a bunch of the offices. I know NYC and DC haven't done OCI in a few years.

Now they are moving away from OCI altogether because it has been successful and also transitioning to an internship type deal where you come in as a 2L, work during the school year, and then get a shot at being a summer. Essentially they are cutting all the BS of OCI and finding kids who fit well. The internship model worked extremely well this summer I have heard from another office, so the firm seems to be moving that way. I didn't even know the firm was still doing OCI for some offices. Looks like they will continue in the offices they need to.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
I predict a lot of biglaw firms will be doing this in the next few years. If you want to do anything else at Ropes you're probably fine.
I've heard some rumors that my firm wants to acquire some patent pros partners so they can cross sell services. Do you think this us a good idea? Given what a going on at ropes and elsewhere I was inclined to think it wasn't...

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Roy McAvoy

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Roy McAvoy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
I predict a lot of biglaw firms will be doing this in the next few years. If you want to do anything else at Ropes you're probably fine.
I've heard some rumors that my firm wants to acquire some patent pros partners so they can cross sell services. Do you think this us a good idea? Given what a going on at ropes and elsewhere I was inclined to think it wasn't...
From my understanding that's how it's been done for a long time, but now billing rates for pros can't keep up. That's why most of the pros work is done out of boutiques rather than big law now. I expect to see more firms do what Ropes has done.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:30 pm

Roy McAvoy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
I predict a lot of biglaw firms will be doing this in the next few years. If you want to do anything else at Ropes you're probably fine.
I've heard some rumors that my firm wants to acquire some patent pros partners so they can cross sell services. Do you think this us a good idea? Given what a going on at ropes and elsewhere I was inclined to think it wasn't...
From my understanding that's how it's been done for a long time, but now billing rates for pros can't keep up. That's why most of the pros work is done out of boutiques rather than big law now. I expect to see more firms do what Ropes has done.
The firm has to be willing to embrace alternative fee arrangements and lower billing rates for the pros group, and accept that the profit will be lower for the group. Ropes wasn't willing to do this, making it impossible for the group to compete with smaller, cheaper firms.

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Roy McAvoy

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Roy McAvoy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Roy McAvoy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
I predict a lot of biglaw firms will be doing this in the next few years. If you want to do anything else at Ropes you're probably fine.
I've heard some rumors that my firm wants to acquire some patent pros partners so they can cross sell services. Do you think this us a good idea? Given what a going on at ropes and elsewhere I was inclined to think it wasn't...
From my understanding that's how it's been done for a long time, but now billing rates for pros can't keep up. That's why most of the pros work is done out of boutiques rather than big law now. I expect to see more firms do what Ropes has done.
The firm has to be willing to embrace alternative fee arrangements and lower billing rates for the pros group, and accept that the profit will be lower for the group. Ropes wasn't willing to do this, making it impossible for the group to compete with smaller, cheaper firms.
Right, my understanding is most big law firms aren't willing to embrace those agreement and lower billing rates. At least not to the extent they used to.

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by SmokeytheBear » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
I know a couple of associates that lateraled from there to my firm -

#notevenonce

Big Law sucks no matter what, but some places just seem like they are trying to make it worse. Paul Hastings is one such place.
Which office? Their LA office has been searching for corporate associates for at least a year. On again off again searches. Can't be a good sign.

Is the issue a yeller?

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone with anything specific to Boston offices?
Dechert Boston is obviously struggling like the rest of the firm. Ropes & Gray is still the best in town, but they recently kicked out their entire patent prosecution group.
Don't think this bodes well for Nixon Peabody either:

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/08/biglaw-f ... nterviews/
What the hell is a Nixon Peabody? Anyway, jeez what a TTT firm. They're not even paying the market 180k salary; still at 160k lol.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:39 pm

Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
(Guy who likes cubicles)

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:25 pm

Bryan Cave no offered a few summers at different offices this year. I am aware of no offers in NY and SF. Seems they overprojected their needs in both offices. Also below market compensation. Avoid if you have any other options.

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Wild Card

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Wild Card » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:48 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
(Guy who likes cubicles)
They have glass at Simpson Thacher. You can't even yawn or adjust yourself or catnap. What a sick world!

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:14 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
(Guy who likes cubicles)
They have glass at Simpson Thacher. You can't even yawn or adjust yourself or catnap. What a sick world!
Glass is becoming a thing. And believe me, it sucks.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by jingosaur » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:28 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Wild Card wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
(Guy who likes cubicles)
They have glass at Simpson Thacher. You can't even yawn or adjust yourself or catnap. What a sick world!
Glass is becoming a thing. And believe me, it sucks.
That office jerk off thread fucked it up for everyone.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:46 pm

jingosaur wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Wild Card wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Everybody is always shitting on Paul Hastings, but plenty would be happy to accept an offer from a V22 firm.
(Guy who likes cubicles)
They have glass at Simpson Thacher. You can't even yawn or adjust yourself or catnap. What a sick world!
Glass is becoming a thing. And believe me, it sucks.
That office jerk off thread fucked it up for everyone.
Yeah now you have to go all the way to the breast pump room :roll:

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:49 pm

Link?

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by jingosaur » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Link?
Brave anon use
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... d#p8437805

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dykema no offered a huge chunk of their summer class last year, and waited until early September to do it.
Midwestern SA here - I was going to post Dykema too. Not that I think they're a bad firm, but they no offer at higher rates than other firms. The same goes (from my experience) to Ice Miller. Again, great firm, but antiquated/annoying offer rates.

Edit: Jk looks like Ice Miller offered everyone in 2016. Well that's good!

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know what's going on with Sidley DC?
Sidley in general is weird with offers. They never have a 100% offer rate at all their offices. And based on prior NALP history, they have no-offered at least one person at every office at some point in the past few years.

Good firm, but they definitely seem to be more strict on offers than their peers.
I mean - is Sidley DC even hiring summers? They're the only Sidley office who didn't come to our OCI (in a MVPD) and I know I read somewhere on their website they weren't hiring DC summers but were accepting qualified applicants.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know what's going on with Sidley DC?
Sidley in general is weird with offers. They never have a 100% offer rate at all their offices. And based on prior NALP history, they have no-offered at least one person at every office at some point in the past few years.

Good firm, but they definitely seem to be more strict on offers than their peers.
I mean - is Sidley DC even hiring summers? They're the only Sidley office who didn't come to our OCI (in a MVPD) and I know I read somewhere on their website they weren't hiring DC summers but were accepting qualified applicants.
Their recruiting calendar shows the DC office represented at OCIs for Michigan, Virginia, and Penn.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:41 am

Definitely stay away from Paul Hastings in Southern California (LA, OC, SD). Associates have been departing in huge numbers because of the negative culture and the partners are continuing to double down on that culture.

Incoming associates are often pushed into practice areas they don't want to be in (the ones no one wants to do because they have terrible partners and hours). More in-demand areas like litigation have totally inconsistent hours, with associates doing 50 hours one month and 200+ in another. And yet the firm requires face time, so you could end up toiling away doing nothing during the work day but then working all night and weekend.

PH has been looking for corporate lateral associates for a while now but haven't gotten many hits (even though it's a V25 firm in a good location) because of how toxic the culture is.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:44 am

I have yet to hear anything positive about Paul Hastings. I would stay away from their New York office as well. I have heard terrible things about WSGR and Greenberg as well. For Greenberg I have heard of associates being reprimanded for not billing enough when they are over 200 a month.

As a general matter, be very careful of smaller law firms. Usually the partners at small law firms have a free reign of terror over their employees.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:Norton Rose Fullbright. They are super shaky financially, and have no offered a good chunk of their class in recent years. If I was going into OCI, I'd only go here if I had no other option.
My take is that many of the senior partners who are making decisions are still in denial about the state of the firm and hiring like it's the good 'ol days. Then, when new associates arrive, there's no work for them. It's partially bad luck on their part- they are a litigation dominated firm at a time where litigation is declining as a revenue source. They don't have critical mass to get good deal work.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have yet to hear anything positive about Paul Hastings. I would stay away from their New York office as well. I have heard terrible things about WSGR and Greenberg as well. For Greenberg I have heard of associates being reprimanded for not billing enough when they are over 200 a month.

As a general matter, be very careful of smaller law firms. Usually the partners at small law firms have a free reign of terror over their employees.
Greenberg is just cheap as fuck from what I hear.

On the opposite side, I hear nothing but awesome things about Wilmer. I don't know how much of it is "grass is greener" thinking, but everything I hear is positive.

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Re: Law Firms to Stay Away From

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have yet to hear anything positive about Paul Hastings. I would stay away from their New York office as well. I have heard terrible things about WSGR and Greenberg as well. For Greenberg I have heard of associates being reprimanded for not billing enough when they are over 200 a month.

As a general matter, be very careful of smaller law firms. Usually the partners at small law firms have a free reign of terror over their employees.
Greenberg is just cheap as fuck from what I hear.

On the opposite side, I hear nothing but awesome things about Wilmer. I don't know how much of it is "grass is greener" thinking, but everything I hear is positive.
I've heard bad things from one NY associate. Not anything huge to worry about, but worth noting that few firms are perfect.

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