Chicago OCI 2017 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone want to get this started?

[chicago-gunner123]

Here is a link to last year's OCI thread and then below that is the text from the OP in that thread. Feel free to post in this thread with any and all questions you have about OCI. There are a bunch of alums and 2Ls/3Ls who look through these posts and can provide advice regarding specific markets, bidding, when to start mass mailing, how to prepare for interviews, differentiating firms, etc.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... o+OCI+2016


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When posting a bidlist to get advice, please include the following information:

Form that would be helpful for future questions (you don't have to use it, but it'll help the people trying to help you). Under Misc put other info you think may be helpful for us--any idiosyncratic preference you may have. Under bidlist provide city of office / # of interview spots / expected incoming SAs (ex for New York/ 42 interviews / 30 incoming SAs: NY/42/30)

Grades:
URM/Female:
Work Exp:
Preferred Market:
Practice Area:
Misc:
Bid list:


In addition to general advice, please post ITT when you receive: 1) your final bid list, 2) a callback, 3) a ding, or 4) an offer (god willing).

That way people know a firm has started giving callbacks or dings. This should, where possible, include the firm name, the office (e.g. LA, DC), the method of notification (phone call, email, owl), and your approximate GPA. If an invitation for a reception or dinner is given, please mention it in your post. It will also be helpful to future classes to post bid lists and what firms you successfully bid on and those you didn't. I encourage share this information - it will not out you for most large firms, and it helps everyone know where the firm stands in the process.

[Vincent Adultman]

Alum tagging. Happy to provide general OCI advice, although I'm maybe less up to date re: bidding.

[Anonymous User]

First, thanks to the alums and rising 3Ls for helping out again.

Is there a consensus on when we should start mass mailing? Should we mass mail firms that we know will be at OCI?

[zhenders]

Mass mail now or earlier. Mail firms that will be at OCI. Things are moving more quickly every year; last summer, a really substantial number of offers went out well before OCI.

Best of luck all! Tagging as well; rising 3L.

[2014]

I'm not going to help with any sort of detailed bid list surgery but i'm here to help with any general questions that i can (or will answer PM). At this point I'm best (or perhaps only) equipped to help those looking to go to NY.

[chicago-gunner123]

Mass mail now or earlier. Mail firms that will be at OCI. Things are moving more quickly every year; last summer, a really substantial number of offers went out well before OCI.

Best of luck all! Tagging as well; rising 3L.

Seconding this, pre-OCI hiring is moving up more and more in recent years and non-Chicago firms do not hold as many spots as you think. So, it makes sense to put yourself out there. If nothing else, it is a good opportunity to shake off the rust on your interviewing skills before OCI itself.

I know more about NY than other markets so I cannot be helpful outside of that, but here are firms in NYC that people interested in NYC should consider mailing now. These are the firms that I know about that gave out offers to Chicago students before OCI the last two years, I am sure there are more I do not know about. I put stars next to the firms that were most active pre-OCI and also tried to order it generally in tiers of grade-selectiveness, though the distinctions are not very definite:

Simpson Thacher
Davis Polk
Paul, Weiss*
Cleary Gottlieb

Debevoise
Weil Gotshal*

Cahill Gordon*
Sidley Austin
Willkie Farr
Shearman and Sterling
White and Case
Arnold & Porter, Kaye Scholer (formerly just Kaye Scholer)

Schulte, Roth, and Zabel*
Stroock & Stroock & Levan

Anyone who knows more should add, and to echo the posters above, am happy to answer any PMs or questions in this thread about NYC OCI

[Anonymous User]

What happened last year? It looks like everyone had to bid high to get DC screeners and screeners with the major Chicago firms were easy to get. Is that normal?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience doing mass mailing while at a 1LSA? I'm interested in sending out apps, but the amount of time I can take off for interviews is obviously kinda limited.

[Anonymous User]

What happened last year? It looks like everyone had to bid high to get DC screeners and screeners with the major Chicago firms were easy to get. Is that normal?

Chicago firms give us like a million interview slots, DC not so much. DC was also popular with my class for some reason, might not be the case for your class.

[Anonymous User]

Does the mass-mailing (even for firms that will be at OCI) apply for non-NY markets like CA as well? I've been seeing mixed messages on that across Legal Employment.

[Vincent Adultman]

Does the mass-mailing (even for firms that will be at OCI) apply for non-NY markets like CA as well? I've been seeing mixed messages on that across Legal Employment.

Yes

[2014]

Those of you in NY for the summer will be doing yourself a disservice if you don't mass mail even the firms coming to OCI btw. Firms save a ton of money by paying for your cab across town vs flight/hotel/per diem and are often willing to bring you in before OCI. It's a win for you too because with an incumbent offer(s) in hand you can afford to aggressively trim your OCI list which is good for you and everyone else.

[zhenders]

Those of you in NY for the summer will be doing yourself a disservice if you don't mass mail even the firms coming to OCI btw. Firms save a ton of money by paying for your cab across town vs flight/hotel/per diem and are often willing to bring you in before OCI. It's a win for you too because with an incumbent offer(s) in hand you can afford to aggressively trim your OCI list which is good for you and everyone else.

+100

Anyone have experience doing mass mailing while at a 1LSA? I'm interested in sending out apps, but the amount of time I can take off for interviews is obviously kinda limited.

You'll need to be a bit creative here, but don't miss out on a possible interview if you get offered one. Obviously the approach is not asking for time off for the purpose of interviewing at another firm, but there are diplomatic ways to step out of the office for a period of time without raising flags or people noticing.

[Anonymous User]

What are the best firms to target for Chicago lit? Word is that the market is not great and some firms are hiring fewer lit associates than in years past (e.g., Mayer Brown).

[Jaqen]

Alum in Houston. I took a zig-zaggy path but I'm happy to chat - I know these threads can be lonely for TX-minded folks!

[Vincent Adultman]

What are the best firms to target for Chicago lit? Word is that the market is not great and some firms are hiring fewer lit associates than in years past (e.g., Mayer Brown).

I don't think the analysis is materially different from corporate firms in Chicago. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the best firms in Chicago are the best firms in pretty much anything. They will hire more and have better work and offer rates. Exception is of course like Bartlett - but they don't hire 2Ls.

[Anonymous User]

Well, I guess I'll go first. This is a really rough list, and I would obviously appreciate any feedback. I will have an offer from a good NY firm going into OCI, but I'd like to try a different city and firm for next summer. Please let me know if there are any other firms I should consider. Thanks!

Grades: 181+
URM/Female: URM
Work Exp: K-JD
Preferred Market: DC, Chicago, LA, NY
Practice Area: Litigation
Misc: COA clerkship lined up
Bid list:

1. Covington & Burling (D.C.) (21 slots)
2. Sidley (Chicago) (84)
3. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago) (84)
4. Jenner & Block (Chicago) (63)
5. Gibson & Dunn (D.C.) (84)
6. Arnold & Porter (D.C.) (21)
7. Latham & Watkins (Chicago) (52)
8. Mayer & Brown (Chicago) (24)
9. Skadden (Chicago) (84)
10. WilmerHale (D.C.) (21)
11. Sidley (D.C.) (21)
12. O’Melveny (D.C.) (21)
13. Boies (D.C.) (21)
14. Munger (LA) (21)
15. Williams & Connolly (42)
16. Mayer Brown (D.C) (21)
17. Latham & Watkins (D.C.) (21)
18. Kirkland & Ellis (D.C.) (21)
19. Jenner & Block (D.C.) (21)
20. Irell (LA) (21)
21. Fried Frank (D.C.) (21)
22. Cleary (D.C.) (42)
23. Skadden (D.C.) (21)
24. White & Case (D.C.) (21)
25. Crowell (D.C.) (21)
26. Baker Botts (D.C) (63)
27. Wachtell (NY) (42)

[Vincent Adultman]

Don't shit on the interviewer. You'll be fine.

[Anonymous User]

Seriously, don't bid 27 firms. Just pick the 10 or so you most want. Presumably feeder clerkship plus K&E should mean that you can do whatever you want.

[Anonymous User]

Related to the above, I know that the conventional wisdom is that once you reach a certain grade threshold that firm is looking for grades stop mattering and interviewing/personality/fit take over. Anyone have any experience whether or not this is true once you get into K&E territory?

[Vincent Adultman]

Grades are a sliding scale. Think of them as benefit of the doubt points. Grades alone will not yet you the job. If you have a 181 plus, then if you flub an answer or two, the interviewer will be more likely to laugh it off and not hold it against you. You're walking into the interview only needing to confirm that you have some sort of personality and that you match up to what they've seen on paper. But if you come off as not knowing details about the firm, or not seeming like you've done your research in general, then you can still get dinged.

If you have a 174-175, then you're going to really need to impress some people to overcome any perceived weaknesses. The ironic and horrible part is that the way to impress people is to seem relaxed and confident and personable - and someone with a low gpa might have a harder time demonstrating those qualities.

Of course, most people are in the 176-178. Which means that you'll be in something of a twilight zone, where not everything has to be perfect, but you'll still need to be polished and demonstrate that you are going to be a good fit and someone who they'll want to work next to late at night when everyone is busy.

[Vincent Adultman]

Caveats to all of that:

The super selective firms like Wachtell can have their cake and eat it too. They can pick really qualified and personable people. So never assume you'll get a callback/offer at these places.

I personally know multiple people with 180+ gpas who received one to no offers from OCI. Meaning that it can be really hard if you arent confident or articulate in person. I also know people with abysmally low gpas get great offers. Perhaps not at Sidley Chicago, but still something I'd be happy with. On average higher gpas will do better, but personality and background and other soft factors still matter for each individual person.

Then nice part is that it shouldn't matter what your gpa vis a vis how you prepare for OCI. You aren't busy this summer so you might as well do your research, take people out to coffee, practice your answers, polish your resume, etc.

[Anonymous User]

This thread has been so quiet! So I'll try to get it active again by posting my bidlist. I don't know what I'm doing so any advice is appreciated.

Grades: 180.5+, no K&E, no journal
URM/Female: Female
Work Exp: Some, relatively unrelated
Preferred Market: Chicago > NY, some ties to Boston
Practice Area: Litigation
Misc: My resume is pretty public interest heavy, so might have a lower screener-->callback ratio
Bid list:

1. Ropes & Gray (Chi) (21)
2. Jenner & Block (Chi) (63)
3. Kirkland & Ellis (Chi) (84)
4. Sidley (Chi) (84)
5. Skadden (Chi) (84)
6. Latham & Watkins (Chi) (52)
7. Paul Weiss (NY) (21)
8. Mayer & Brown (Chi) (24)
9. Jones Day (Chi) (42)
10. Fried Frank (Chi) (42)
11. Paul Hastings (Chi) (21)
12. O’Melveny (NY) (21)
13. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) (42)
14. Cravath (NY) (42)
15. Debevoise (NY) (63)
16. Proskauer (NY) (21) *
17. Williams & Connolly (42)
18. WilmerHale (Bos) (10)
19. Barack Ferrazzano (Chi) (42)
20. Winston & Strawn (Chi) (42)
21. McDermott (Chi) (63)
22. Eimer Stahl (Chi) (21)
23. Wachtell (NY) (42)
24. Boies (NY) (21) *
25. Goodwin (Bos) (21)

* I know I will not get a screener but wanted to include to be able to follow up and try to get on the schedule

Pre-OCI interviews at: Simpson Thacher, Davis Polk, Morrison Foerster, Gibson Dunn, and Cleary

[chicago-gunner123]

This thread has been so quiet! So I'll try to get it active again by posting my bidlist. I don't know what I'm doing so any advice is appreciated.

Grades: 180.5+, no K&E, no journal
URM/Female: Female
Work Exp: Some, relatively unrelated
Preferred Market: Chicago > NY, some ties to Boston
Practice Area: Litigation
Misc: My resume is pretty public interest heavy, so might have a lower screener-->callback ratio
Bid list:

1. Ropes & Gray (Chi) (21)
2. Jenner & Block (Chi) (63)
3. Kirkland & Ellis (Chi) (84)
4. Sidley (Chi) (84)
5. Skadden (Chi) (84)
6. Latham & Watkins (Chi) (52)
7. Paul Weiss (NY) (21)
8. Mayer & Brown (Chi) (24)
9. Jones Day (Chi) (42)
10. Fried Frank (Chi) (42)
11. Paul Hastings (Chi) (21)
12. O’Melveny (NY) (21)
13. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) (42)
14. Cravath (NY) (42)
15. Debevoise (NY) (63)
16. Proskauer (NY) (21) *
17. Williams & Connolly (42)
18. WilmerHale (Bos) (10)
19. Barack Ferrazzano (Chi) (42)
20. Winston & Strawn (Chi) (42)
21. McDermott (Chi) (63)
22. Eimer Stahl (Chi) (21)
23. Wachtell (NY) (42)
24. Boies (NY) (21) *
25. Goodwin (Bos) (21)

* I know I will not get a screener but wanted to include to be able to follow up and try to get on the schedule

Pre-OCI interviews at: Simpson Thacher, Davis Polk, Morrison Foerster, Gibson Dunn, and Cleary

Congrats on the grades, looks good. One thing to think about is if you end up getting offers from those pre-OCI interviews then you should cancel the screeners at firms you would 100% not go to over your offer in hand.

With your grades, I would not be so worried about a public interest background hurting your screener --> cb ratio. Just make sure you have an articulable reason for why you want to work at a firm and you will be more than fine!