Columbia EIP 2017

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Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:35 pm

Hey fellow Class of 2019ers,

I didn't see an EIP thread for 2017 so I figured I would flagrantly steal last year's and start it.

Grades are coming back and the Offers by Honors reports are up on Symplicity, meaning that it's about time to start putting together bidlists for EIP. In this thread, we help one another put together suitable bidlists, share information, assuage fears, offer advice on interviews and callbacks, etc.

Past threads:
2016: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=265024
2015: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=248971
2014: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=231040
2013: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=211338
2012: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=187757
2011: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=162163

Here are the rules and some tips from last year:

I. Anonymous Handles

We all want to maintain some privacy during this process. That said, it is also nice to keep track of who is saying what. I recommend that everyone pick a handle with which to sign her anonymous posts (although you obviously don’t have to) so that we can keep track of one another.

II. Bidding

The basics of bidlist stuff should be straightforward even if you’re not Socrates: if you think other people are more likely to bid on a firm, you should bid it high. Firms that are less grade-selective or that have fewer interview spots are more competitive, so you should probably rank them higher. Don’t rank a firm high just because you want it, but if you really want a particular firm it might be good to rank it high for your peace of mind. The EIP Failed Bid Report helps with this, although relying too heavily on it could be a mistake (or so I've heard). Finally, spreading bids out between multiple markets increases the risk of striking out, especially if you don't have strong ties to those markets. We’ve all seen the data: there are just more jobs in New York, so NY is a solid backup for folks who are trying to head to California, Chicago, DC, etc.

III. Callbacks

Once we’re at least part-way through the first rings of interviewing hell, people will get callbacks. In past years, people would post the firm name and the initials of the person who interviewed them when they received a callback so that people would know that callbacks had gone out.

Good luck.

-Reinhold Niebuhr

dabigchina
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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby dabigchina » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:06 pm

good luck people.

Also, if you want feedback on bidlists, it would be helpful to post the FFB of each firm/office on your list.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:12 am

Do people already have most of their grades? I'm still waiting on 3 out of 4 spring grades

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:16 am

Waiting on two of four grades. They're supposed to be due 6/15 (this Thursday).

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:41 pm

Don't forget to pick a handle everyone.

I'm waiting on 2 grades. Was a 3.66 first semester (A, A-, B+) but I've gotten (B, B) back so far so I'm sitting at a 3.42. Really can't wait for these other two grades to come in. And i really hope I dont get 4 Bs.

I'll cut and paste Mono's advice for people with garbage grades too at some point.

~ Half-Grey Eyebrow

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:42 pm

Here's Mono's advice from previous years. It's good stuff.

~Half-Grey Eyebrow

Okay, here are some things to think about:

(A) Strikeouts are real, even if it doesn't feel that way because nobody talks about it IRL. It was 13% for c/o 2016, and that is not a meaningless number. Everyone thinks it won't happen to them, until it does. Therefore, your number one priority is to get a job. If it happens to be the specific one you were angling for, great. But the downside risk you create by angling towards the hard-to-reach is way, way, WAY larger than the upside risk of getting this firm instead of that firm.



(B) The top three reasons people strike out are, in order:

3. Bad grades--Hopefully you've made your peace with this one by now, because it isn't changing. Bad grades, of course, won't help your case. But CLS has a very strong placement record, and bottom-of-the-class grades do not make it impossible, or even unlikely, that you'll be able to get a Biglaw job. Be comforted with that knowledge, and move on to the things you can actually affect.

2. Bad interviewing--Some people have dynamite charisma. Because you read TLS, that isn't you. So get your ass to OCS and start doing practice interviewing. Do as many as you can until they stop letting you in the building. Email them until they let you in purely on the knowledge that you'll annoy them if they don't. I think I did like seven. If you're so inclined, go to outside consultants who do this for a living. It helps you with the two important skills of EIP: Giving scripted answers that sound like you just came up with them, and giving the consistent energy/enthusiasm that makes it look like you'll shit bricks for the opportunity to talk to Insert Firm Name Here. It's a skill, and just like most other skills, some people are more naturally inclined, but pretty much everyone can get better with practice. If you do a shitton, then by the time EIP rolls around there won't be any questions that you haven't heard before. If you're tremendously awkward, the interviews aren't going to turn you into Don Draper overnight, but they have a decent chance of making you passable enough to hire.

1. Bad bidding--This is the worst thing students do every year. Many, maybe most, of the people who strikeout from CLS are doing something other than the prudent play, which is to fill your schedule with large-class NYC firms. Anything else entails an unnecessary risk. It's up to you to decide how badly you want something that isn't that, and whether your specific situation is such that you can afford to take on some kind of risk. But a good rule of thumb if you want to minimize the probability of debtfucking your life is that non-Stone students should be bidding a minimum of 20 large-class NYC firms. Regardless of GPA, this should include all of the following, unless you have a seriously good reason not to bid one of the above: Cadwalader, Clifford Chance, Fried Frank, Greenberg Traurig, Hogan, K&L Gates, Kaye Scholer, Kramer Levin, Mayer Brown, Milbank, Paul Hastings, Proskauer, Schulte, Sidley, and Willkie. If you are at least median-ish, that list should also include Kirkland, Ropes, and Shearman. To focus on anything besides the firms most likely to hire you if you are non-Stone is a significant risk.


(C) Do as many interviews as you can. OCS told me and other students, and will probably tell you, that you should keep your schedule to no more than 20 or so. That's utter nonsense. There is no risk to doing more interviews and you should not be shutting the door to any opportunity. Yes, it will be tiring. Drink some goddamn coffee. I had two cups each day, and those of you with higher caffeine tolerances will need more. Doesn't matter; there are available pots in the reception area. I was so tired at the end of each day that I immediately crashed when I got home. But I didn't do any interviews with anything less than 100% enthusiasm. I had 28 after bidding and raced like a madman to pick up anything that fit my schedule. For several days I was checking literally every 15 minutes to see if anyone had dropped anything (you don't have to be quite that insane). In the end, one of my offers was from a firm I picked up late in the process. I was lucky to have two others before that, but you never know which one you pick up might be the difference between Biglaw and debtpwnage. In the end, it's something of a numbers game. Think in terms of probability. It's tremendously hard to predict which firms will like you and which won't. There is often not a lot of rhyme or reason as to why Firm A called you back and Firm B didn't. Think of more interviews as more free tickets to a raffle--why would you turn down a chance to increase your odds? I had very bad grades and I don't think I'm any more likable than the next guy, but I had six callbacks, just due to the sheer volume of interviews that I did.


(D) OCS' advice is frequently bad. Take everything they say with a grain of salt. TLS consistently gives better advice. Last year, OCS told one kid that he couldn't get Simpson with a 3.7 without WE. That's nonsense. They told another kid that if he really wanted Cravath, he should bid them in his top five. That's just demonstrably really inefficient. I'm sure there are other "gems" I've forgotten.


(E) I have always been really confused as to why the average student seems to get so few of their lottery bids. This is really not a hard process. People who get fewer than 25 of their bids are doing something wrong. The first failed bid stuff is remarkably consistent year-to-year. Look up where Firm X could not be had last year. Move it a few spots above that to account for variability. This is really so easy and yet so many people in the past have messed it up. Do not be like those people.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:56 pm

All my friends at other T14s have already got their grades... this wait is killing me.

Did the school post first failed bid data? I only see offer/honor list on symplicity.

- Dominos

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:All my friends at other T14s have already got their grades... this wait is killing me.

Did the school post first failed bid data? I only see offer/honor list on symplicity.

- Dominos


I dont even see offer/honor. Where are you finding that?

Half-Grey Eyebrow

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:All my friends at other T14s have already got their grades... this wait is killing me.

Did the school post first failed bid data? I only see offer/honor list on symplicity.

- Dominos


They'll post it (maybe on the EIP website), but I don't think it's up yet.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All my friends at other T14s have already got their grades... this wait is killing me.

Did the school post first failed bid data? I only see offer/honor list on symplicity.

- Dominos


I dont even see offer/honor. Where are you finding that?

Half-Grey Eyebrow


It's under Interview Programs tab, at the bottom of the blue box.

- Dominos

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:28 am

Having gone through this process last year, a few random points of advice:

1. Block as much time in the weeks post EIP for callbacks as you can. I did not appreciate how fast and crazy things get right after EIP. OCS will tell you to avoid vacations, ect. They are right about this. Also try to avoid continuing work commitments after this date.

2. Bidding effectively is very important, but so is hustling for more interviews. One technique that I found very effective for firms I failed to bid high enough was to visit the hospitality suite as early in the morning as possible to drop off a resume and transcript. This often lead to scheduled interviews in open slots. Likewise, e-mailing recruiting from firms that you failed to get interviews at expressing continued interest also helped lead to more interviews.

3. Compile lots of data. I found the most important data to be an analysis of the offer rate. The specific formula I used was [(interviews/callbacks completed) * (callbacks offered/interviews)]. Depending on grades, this could be further adjusted in light of Stone %.

4. Don't waste your lower bids. It's easy to disregard bids 25-30 but used strategically they can valuable. They can be very helpful in the following ways:

A. You can use them to get interviews at firms that have low FFB but high offer rates (see #3 above). These firms might not be top choices but may be key to getting at least one offer.

B. You can use them to express interest to firms even if they are unlikely to have a FFB. Some firms are niche or in unusual locations and therefore are unlikely to fill all their interview slots. Even though these interviews can likely be added at the add/drop stage, by bidding these firms you can show that you are actually interested as opposed to simply seeking extra interviews.

C. They can be used to express interest in firms that are popular and for which your available bids will be too low. If a firm has a FFB of 1 and you've already used bid #1, it's possibly better to express interest by bidding it 30 than bidding it #2 on a hope the FFB will drop.

5. When considering your bid list pay careful attention to the numbers of schedules. On the EIP website under "Employers at EIP," compare the "EIP Results 2016" to the "Employer Schedules - 2Ls" and see if employers have increased or decreased the number of available interviews. Each schedule is 20 interviews. For example, if a firm gave 80 interviews last year but has only 3 schedules this year they have reduced their slots by 20, this will likely force up the FFB.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:34 pm

^thanks for the advice.

Checking in.

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby RSN » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:59 pm

One interview tip I picked up somewhere that I found useful -- namedrop tactfully but frequently. Screeners are pretty short, and it can be really helpful when they ask you what interests you about their firm to drop the name of someone you met at their reception or some other function in the spring/summer, which helps you stand out a little more from the other 200 kids who want to do M&A. Obviously that requires having met the people and written their names down, so hopefully you've done that already or will at upcoming events this summer. Doesn't need to be someone in a practice area you're interested in, can just say you met them and had a great conversation and you're excited to learn more about the firm.

Also, I have EIP results data going back to 2011. I don't want to post the spreadsheets publicly or answer a boatload of PMs, but if one of the 1Ls wants to PM me and be the keeper of the numbers to share with your class, let me know.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:46 pm

FFB is up on Symplicity!

-Reinhold Niebuhr

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:03 pm

Does anyone know what, roughly, median GPA is? And how do you even calculate GPA...is a B+ a 3.33, A- a 3.66, etc?

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know what, roughly, median GPA is? And how do you even calculate GPA...is a B+ a 3.33, A- a 3.66, etc?

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito

No idea what median is. Assuming professors all give the most generous curve possible, that everyone takes a 3 credit elective, and randomly distributed grades, it would be 3.35. So probably a bit below that. For GPA you can use https://www.college.columbia.edu/academ ... calculator except A+=4.0.

-Reinhold Niebuhr

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:20 pm

Okay, I guess I'll get the bidlists started. Thanks in advance to everyone for any feedback. GPA is on the higher side of the 3.6-3.7 range. Goal is DC lit, though I want to make sure I'm doing a good enough job bidding NYC for backup. I imagine the top of my bidlist could be a bit tighter but really don't want to risk any of those interviews. All bids NYC unless otherwise noted. 2016 FFB is in parenthesis.

  1. Boies (1)
  2. Sidley DC (4)
  3. Hogan Lovells DC (6)
  4. Paul Weiss (9)
  5. Gibson Dunn (10)
  6. Gibson Dunn DC (11)
  7. Cleary (10)
  8. Davis Polk (11)
  9. Skadden (10)
  10. Skadden DC (15)
  11. Covington DC (16)
  12. Latham (13)
  13. Arnold & Porter DC (18)
  14. Jones Day DC (18)
  15. Latham DC (19)
  16. W&C (19)
  17. WilmerHale DC (22)
  18. Kirkland DC (22)
  19. Debevoise DC (24)
  20. STB (22)
  21. Cleary DC (26)
  22. White & Case DC (26)
  23. Paul Weiss DC (28)
  24. O'Melveny DC (28)
  25. Davis Polk DC (new)
  26. Kirkland (28 lol)
  27. Debevoise (3)
  28. Weil (4)
  29. Ropes (6)
  30. Sidley (2)

-Reinhold Niebuhr

dabigchina
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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby dabigchina » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Okay, I guess I'll get the bidlists started. Thanks in advance to everyone for any feedback. GPA is on the higher side of the 3.6-3.7 range. Goal is DC lit, though I want to make sure I'm doing a good enough job bidding NYC for backup. I imagine the top of my bidlist could be a bit tighter but really don't want to risk any of those interviews. All bids NYC unless otherwise noted. 2016 FFB is in parenthesis.

  1. Boies (1)
  2. Sidley DC (4)
  3. Hogan Lovells DC (6)
  4. Paul Weiss (9)
  5. Gibson Dunn (10)
  6. Gibson Dunn DC (11)
  7. Cleary (10)
  8. Davis Polk (11)
  9. Skadden (10)
  10. Skadden DC (15)
  11. Covington DC (16)
  12. Latham (13)
  13. Arnold & Porter DC (18)
  14. Jones Day DC (18)
  15. Latham DC (19)
  16. W&C (19)
  17. WilmerHale DC (22)
  18. Kirkland DC (22)
  19. Debevoise DC (24)
  20. STB (22)
  21. Cleary DC (26)
  22. White & Case DC (26)
  23. Paul Weiss DC (28)
  24. O'Melveny DC (28)
  25. Davis Polk DC (new)
  26. Kirkland (28 lol)
  27. Debevoise (3)
  28. Weil (4)
  29. Ropes (6)
  30. Sidley (2)

-Reinhold Niebuhr


Make sure these firms allow you to bid multiple offices. I want to say many (most?) firms don't.

Also, I would take out Weil ropes and sidley at the end. Those are wasted bids.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:36 pm

I suspect you may not need to bid Boies #1 anymore since their base salary is no longer above market. Besides, it's relatively easy to pick up an interview (or go straight to a callback) by stopping by their hospitality suite and chatting with them.

Williams and Connolly is a wasted bid with under a 3.7.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:49 pm

By my calculation, I'm at a 3.408 (B+/B+/B+ | A (3 cr)/A- (4 cr)/B+ (3 cr)/B (4 cr)). I think Stone is 3.41 - any chance they round?

Assuming they don't, how much will that 0.002 matter? Will certain firms be out of reach because of it?

Interested in Chicago (from the Midwest). Anyone know if I have decent chance at Skadden/Latham/K&E/Sidley's Chicago offices at EIP? Mayer Brown?

Thanks for the help!

-oh hello

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:58 pm

They don't round. Stone is 3.4100 and above.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:36 pm

Which are the best firms to bid if you have crap grades? I see the other post copy+pasted from an older thread above but I'm wondering if things have changed or if there are any new additions to shitbiglaw since then.

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Okay, I guess I'll get the bidlists started. Thanks in advance to everyone for any feedback. GPA is on the higher side of the 3.6-3.7 range. Goal is DC lit, though I want to make sure I'm doing a good enough job bidding NYC for backup. I imagine the top of my bidlist could be a bit tighter but really don't want to risk any of those interviews. All bids NYC unless otherwise noted. 2016 FFB is in parenthesis.

  1. Boies (1)
  2. Sidley DC (4)
  3. Hogan Lovells DC (6)
  4. Paul Weiss (9)
  5. Gibson Dunn (10)
  6. Gibson Dunn DC (11)
  7. Cleary (10)
  8. Davis Polk (11)
  9. Skadden (10)
  10. Skadden DC (15)
  11. Covington DC (16)
  12. Latham (13)
  13. Arnold & Porter DC (18)
  14. Jones Day DC (18)
  15. Latham DC (19)
  16. W&C (19)
  17. WilmerHale DC (22)
  18. Kirkland DC (22)
  19. Debevoise DC (24)
  20. STB (22)
  21. Cleary DC (26)
  22. White & Case DC (26)
  23. Paul Weiss DC (28)
  24. O'Melveny DC (28)
  25. Davis Polk DC (new)
  26. Kirkland (28 lol)
  27. Debevoise (3)
  28. Weil (4)
  29. Ropes (6)
  30. Sidley (2)

-Reinhold Niebuhr


- Seconded on checking to make sure firms allow you to bid multiple offices. I know Gibson doesn't for example, but they do have a very lax splitting policy. So I'd recommend bidding the NYC office (probably easier to get an offer there) and then trying to split with DC if you want.

- I'd guess Davis Polk DC is going to go higher, so I'd find a way to move that up if you care about it. Also decent chance you'll miss Kirkland.

- Not a big fan of just throwing away bids at the bottom, but maybe bidding a firm does help you pick up an interview at EIP. The Ropes bid is weird too--is there a particular reason you're interested in that?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:26 am

FascinatedWanderer wrote:I suspect you may not need to bid Boies #1 anymore since their base salary is no longer above market. Besides, it's relatively easy to pick up an interview (or go straight to a callback) by stopping by their hospitality suite and chatting with them.


Don't think I agree with this. Boies wasn't above market during EIP bidding last year and it still went #1. People bid it for the prestige, not the salary.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:55 pm

I'll throw another bidlist up. Is this too aggressive? I want DC litigation. What other firms should I have? I tried to get the good DC litigation firms and round out the list with NY firms with big classes.

GPA: 3.86

1. Boies (NY) (1)
2. Debevoise (NY) (3)
3. Hogan Lovells (DC) (6)
4. Cleary (NY) (10)
5. Sullivan and Cromwell (NY) (10)
6. Gibson Dunn (DC) (11)
7. Davis Polk (NY) (11)
8. Akin Gump (DC) (12)
9. Latham (NY) (13)
10. Skadden (DC) (15)
11. Covington and Burling (DC) (16)
12. Jones Day (DC) (18)
13. Arnold Porter (DC) (18)
14. Mayer Brown (DC) (18)
15. Williams and Connelly (DC) (19)
16. Cravath (NY) (19)
17. Watchell (NY) (21)
18. Steptoe (DC) (21)
19. WilmerHale (DC) (22)
20. Simpson Thatcher (NY) (22)
21. Schulte (NY) (27)
22. Paul Weiss (DC) (28)
23. Kirkland Ellis (NY) (28)
24. Skadden (London) (28)
25. Munger, Tolles, Olson (LA) (29)
26. Wilkie (DC) (30)
27. ?
28. ?
29. ?
30. ?




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