Northwestern OCI 2017 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when we'll hear back about journals?

[Anonymous User]

IIRC mid to late July?

[Anonymous User]

Before OCI but not much before. For anything pre-OCI I'm just putting in my cover letter memberships have not been released yet.

[Anonymous User]

CSO says new OCI data will be up this week.

New data is up!

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

[Mullens]

Hey, just starting the OCI research process and want some advice. Top 10% - top 5% GPA, not sure about journal, Moot Court/Trial Team, limited WE. "All-in" on litigation, interested in appellate (who isn't) but this isn't mandatory. Strong ties to Denver, NW is my only ties to Chicago (though my wife has job opportunities here, so that's a +), have a lot of friends in DC (& wife has job opportunities here as well), no connection to NYC but I'm holding it as an option. Working with a State SG/AG's office this summer (not any of the areas discussed above).

I would appreciate feedback on (1) what I should be doing to network this summer, especially since I won't be in DC, NYC, Chi, or Denver. (2) What I should be doing for mass-mailing, and (3) what my general bidding strategy should be (and anything else you think would be pertinent).

Thanks!

(1) There's two people on the OCI firm contact list you got emailed that are/were in Denver for their 2L SA. You should reach out to both of them. It's a small market and they will know more than CSC.

(2) You should probably mass mail Denver firms since not many will come to OCI, but ask the people working there. I also think you should mass mail NY firms so you can try to get pre-OCI callbacks in and not have to bid NY at OCI. I would suggest limiting yourself to two markets at OCI, unless you're just going to apply to the top-end firms in each city and truly don't care where you want to work.

(3) See above. Also would be helpful to know your actual GPA to give bidding advice. To be honest, none of us know what a GPA in the top 5-10% is and the margins matter at this level for top top firms. It's an anonymous forum.

(4) Never say the words "appellate litigation" in any of your interviews. You want to do litigation. The issue is that at most firms the appellate groups very small and are solely staffed with people who have done appellate clerkships. You're in the ballpark to get an appellate clerkship (and you should contact Kadens/Emily Brown about clerkship applications), but you won't have the credential until after you clerk. Even if you mention that you want to do litigation but have an aspiration to do appellate or simply that you are "interested" in it (unless someone asks you directly then it's okay), many interviewers will only hear "I want to do appellate litigation" and it will hurt you. It's honestly one of the easier ways to strike out at OCI with good grades. The goal at OCI is simply to get a job. Do everything you can to get that job and then worry about doing appellate litigation.

To answer (3), my GPA is 3.89.

So at a 3.89 you're on the very border of being competitive for the most competitive firms (Wachtell, Williams & Connolly, Munger). You might be on the outside looking in, but you have a shot if you're diverse, have an interesting/unique background, or you're a very good interviewer. You can confirm this with the new OCI data but I'm guessing you'll be below the bottom 25% callback GPA for the highly highly selective firms. Still a decent strategy to bid them at the bottom of your list (to the extent they come to OCI and are not done through massmail or CSC handpicking) since you can grab them late as there's only a small percentage of the class that has any real shot.

You should also look at some of the smaller litigation boutiques that come to OCI like Eimer Stahl and Barrack Ferrazzano. Might also be worth looking into sending hail mary apps to Susman and the other lit boutiques that do 4-week summers to split with.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

What even is that? Is that the equivalent of booking a class?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

What even is that? Is that the equivalent of booking a class?

Yes, plus $500. Last year awards for fall classes went out first week of June. I didn't book conlaw so I don't know when spring awards come out, but my guess is within the next few weeks. You could always email the school.

[Mothetgoo]

The K and E awards for the fall semester went out April 10, so I would imagine spring semester is still a ways off.

[Anonymous User]

The K and E awards for the fall semester went out April 10, so I would imagine spring semester is still a ways off.

April for fall semester classes? That's very late. Maybe we are looking at December for the spring semester,

[homestyle28]

Went from a 3.4 to a 3.6 cumulative, which is nice, but is such a small bump going to impact how I should approach OCI? I'm hoping for Chicago lit (have decent ties), but would also be open to smaller Midwest markets. Just trying to identify if I have a realistic shot, although I should probably wait until employer reveal before I over-analyze this whole process.

-H

I actually think it's a pretty big bump because you meet a lot of firm's GPA floors with this new GPA. Also, it brings you from barely above median to top 35-ish? Think it should affect your strategy here in that you can bid on higher firms, but others should chime in.

I was under the impression that 3.6 is closer to 25% (not op here), 3.7 is ~15, and 3.8 is 10-12% after 1L (with these all subject to rise over next two years). I think 4.0+ is 5% and higher as of now, which would mean 10ish people are at 4.0 or higher, or roughly 2-3 per section. Wish NU gave at least ranges.

Any upper classpeople ITT find career services helpful for non NY bid advice?

3.6 won't get you dinged from any big firm, it won't blow anyone's mind either, but you'll have the comfort of knowing your dings aren't grade-based.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

I found out 6/30 last year

[Anonymous User]

Hey, just starting the OCI research process and want some advice. Top 10% - top 5% GPA, not sure about journal, Moot Court/Trial Team, limited WE. "All-in" on litigation, interested in appellate (who isn't) but this isn't mandatory. Strong ties to Denver, NW is my only ties to Chicago (though my wife has job opportunities here, so that's a +), have a lot of friends in DC (& wife has job opportunities here as well), no connection to NYC but I'm holding it as an option. Working with a State SG/AG's office this summer (not any of the areas discussed above).

I would appreciate feedback on (1) what I should be doing to network this summer, especially since I won't be in DC, NYC, Chi, or Denver. (2) What I should be doing for mass-mailing, and (3) what my general bidding strategy should be (and anything else you think would be pertinent).

Thanks!

(1) There's two people on the OCI firm contact list you got emailed that are/were in Denver for their 2L SA. You should reach out to both of them. It's a small market and they will know more than CSC.

(2) You should probably mass mail Denver firms since not many will come to OCI, but ask the people working there. I also think you should mass mail NY firms so you can try to get pre-OCI callbacks in and not have to bid NY at OCI. I would suggest limiting yourself to two markets at OCI, unless you're just going to apply to the top-end firms in each city and truly don't care where you want to work.

(3) See above. Also would be helpful to know your actual GPA to give bidding advice. To be honest, none of us know what a GPA in the top 5-10% is and the margins matter at this level for top top firms. It's an anonymous forum.

(4) Never say the words "appellate litigation" in any of your interviews. You want to do litigation. The issue is that at most firms the appellate groups very small and are solely staffed with people who have done appellate clerkships. You're in the ballpark to get an appellate clerkship (and you should contact Kadens/Emily Brown about clerkship applications), but you won't have the credential until after you clerk. Even if you mention that you want to do litigation but have an aspiration to do appellate or simply that you are "interested" in it (unless someone asks you directly then it's okay), many interviewers will only hear "I want to do appellate litigation" and it will hurt you. It's honestly one of the easier ways to strike out at OCI with good grades. The goal at OCI is simply to get a job. Do everything you can to get that job and then worry about doing appellate litigation.

To answer (3), my GPA is 3.89.

So at a 3.89 you're on the very border of being competitive for the most competitive firms (Wachtell, Williams & Connolly, Munger). You might be on the outside looking in, but you have a shot if you're diverse, have an interesting/unique background, or you're a very good interviewer. You can confirm this with the new OCI data but I'm guessing you'll be below the bottom 25% callback GPA for the highly highly selective firms. Still a decent strategy to bid them at the bottom of your list (to the extent they come to OCI and are not done through massmail or CSC handpicking) since you can grab them late as there's only a small percentage of the class that has any real shot.

You should also look at some of the smaller litigation boutiques that come to OCI like Eimer Stahl and Barrack Ferrazzano. Might also be worth looking into sending hail mary apps to Susman and the other lit boutiques that do 4-week summers to split with.

Above advice is all credited.

I had same stats and same secondary market as you, and was all in for lit, and only wanted to do appellate lit. The short story is you'll be fine. For DC, demonstrate a legitimate interest, be likable in your interviews, and you should get a few offers, although you never know. If you have no Chicago ties, expect some resistance, but you should be fine.

As to what you should be doing. Starting the last week of june you should mass mail the firms that won't be at OCI. For those firms that will, set up informational phone calls with associates in the firms you're most interested in (think about ten of these) so that you can reference the associate/phone call in your screener in a non-weird way to demonstrate your interest.

Another important tip: because you're going after multiple markets, you should tell the Denver firms that you're really only interested in Denver, the Chicago firms that you're really only interested in Chicago, and so on. And generate a story to back it up that you can quickly plug in. This was probably the best advice I got. The simple fact is that good grades are a dime a dozen, so the most selective firms won't care about you if you can't demonstrate a commitment to the market.

With your stats, I also went for multiple markets -- four in total, actually: I got "crushed" in Chicago (three offers) and "crushed" other markets (DC with seven, for example).

Oh, and don't say you want to do appellate lit.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

I found out 6/30 last year

Is it safe to assume you receive the K&E award if you got an A+?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

I found out 6/30 last year

Is it safe to assume you receive the K&E award if you got an A+?

Nope. Got an A+ last semester and no K&E

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

I found out 6/30 last year

Is it safe to assume you receive the K&E award if you got an A+?

Nope. Got an A+ last semester and no K&E

[Mullens]

Does anyone know when the school will send email notices to K&E scholar recipients?

I found out 6/30 last year

Is it safe to assume you receive the K&E award if you got an A+?

Each professor gives out 3-4 A+'s per class and there is only one K&E award per class. You're more likely to not get one than to get one.

[Anonymous User]

As a heads up, I've heard some NYC firms have started giving pre oci callbacks

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

As a heads up, I've heard some NYC firms have started giving pre oci callbacks

And Chicago, which means y'all should be emailing where necessary.

[Anonymous User]

As a heads up, I've heard some NYC firms have started giving pre oci callbacks

And Chicago, which means y'all should be emailing where necessary.

And Seattle. If you are going to a secondary market (i.e. not LA, CHI, NY), and you haven't had at least initial "meetings" with the major firms in your target market, you are probably behind the curve.

[Anonymous User]

As a heads up, I've heard some NYC firms have started giving pre oci callbacks

And Chicago, which means y'all should be emailing where necessary.

And Seattle. If you are going to a secondary market (i.e. not LA, CHI, NY), and you haven't had at least initial "meetings" with the major firms in your target market, you are probably behind the curve.

Different anon. Don't let this stress you out. In fact, you're probably not behind the curve, because I doubt that half of Northwestern's rising 2Ls have already had meetings with the major firms in secondary markets. I'd wager that the number is closer to fifteen to twenty students. But at least let the above motivate you. Ride or die.

[Mullens]

As a heads up, I've heard some NYC firms have started giving pre oci callbacks

And Chicago, which means y'all should be emailing where necessary.

And Seattle. If you are going to a secondary market (i.e. not LA, CHI, NY), and you haven't had at least initial "meetings" with the major firms in your target market, you are probably behind the curve.

Such a broad statement like that is toxic and definitely inaccurate. Sure some firms might be reaching out to people, but no one is behind the curve if they haven't had a screener or callback yet. People should be mass mailing and networking. If you haven't yet, you should start now. But you're not behind some imaginary curve or anything. OCI is still more than a month away and firms will still hire through OCI. Especially if you're not in your target market this summer.

[Anonymous User]

As a heads up, I've heard some NYC firms have started giving pre oci callbacks

And Chicago, which means y'all should be emailing where necessary.

And Seattle. If you are going to a secondary market (i.e. not LA, CHI, NY), and you haven't had at least initial "meetings" with the major firms in your target market, you are probably behind the curve.

Such a broad statement like that is toxic and definitely inaccurate. Sure some firms might be reaching out to people, but no one is behind the curve if they haven't had a screener or callback yet. People should be mass mailing and networking. If you haven't yet, you should start now. But you're not behind some imaginary curve or anything. OCI is still more than a month away and firms will still hire through OCI. Especially if you're not in your target market this summer.

Not if you are trying to get into one of the higher-paying law firms in a market like Seattle (maybe there are 3-5 market-paying SA slots). But you are probably right in that not all markets are as small and insular as Seattle. But like, shit, why wouldn't people already be reaching out and developing contacts and stuff?

[Anonymous User]

what have people's experience been cold-emailing Chicago firms? There were some posts in last years OCI's thread that this was not advisable for Chicago and we should wait for OCI. Is this still a good idea? Has anyone gotten anything from Chicago firms yet via mass mail?

i wanna send sidley/kirkland/skadden/latham/etc my resume and transcript, but i don't wanna do anything to make myself or the school look bad.

also, i should note that Winston sent an email after the recruiting event inviting us to send grades and resumes to them before July 1, so it looks at like at least one firm is on board.

[Anonymous User]

Chicago is very much a game. I wouldn't send anything unsolicited but I would touch base with connections and have coffee and then give them your resume when they ask to pass along. If they don't ask, ask to get connected to more people in the firm to get informational meet and greets with. At some point someone will ask for your resume or you'll hit OCI with a ton of networking done.