h1b Forum

[Anonymous User]

In my experience, firms are reluctant to hire people who need h1b sponsorship in the first place. Why pay for summer associate and possibly the first year given the high uncertainty of the lottery? Back in 2014, I know 3 foreign students with above median grades at a T10 all struck out at OCI. The amount of H1B applicants this year is already much lower than last year, so things technically are not as bad as before...

[freekick]

In my experience, firms are reluctant to hire people who need h1b sponsorship in the first place. Why pay for summer associate and possibly the first year given the high uncertainty of the lottery? Back in 2014, I know 3 foreign students with above median grades at a T10 all struck out at OCI. The amount of H1B applicants this year is already much lower than last year, so things technically are not as bad as before...

Not as bad as before thanks to the much needed crackdown on H1B abuse by Asian tech companies. Hope this frees up spots for the kind of jobs H1B was originally meant for. Would mitigate the risk somewhat.

[freekick]

In my experience, firms are reluctant to hire people who need h1b sponsorship in the first place. Why pay for summer associate and possibly the first year given the high uncertainty of the lottery? Back in 2014, I know 3 foreign students with above median grades at a T10 all struck out at OCI. The amount of H1B applicants this year is already much lower than last year, so things technically are not as bad as before...

Not as bad as before thanks to the much needed crackdown on H1B abuse by Asian tech companies. Hope this frees up spots for the kind of jobs H1B was originally meant for. Would mitigate the risk somewhat.

[heythatslife]

Some immigrnation attorneys claim a high rate of success and 'expertise' in the field. I am temped to think that expertise refers to their understanding of how the 'algorithm' works and how one's chances of winning the putative lottery could be increased. Purely speculative thought though.

I doubt there's a way to "game the algorithm." The regs actually provide for randomized selection. And just in terms of practicality, running a random number generator is far easier to do than coming up with some algorithm and plugging in all the information provided in the applications. I don't see why USCIS would create unnecessary work for itself.

Seems to me the only way you can maximize your chances is to ensure the paperwork is in order so your petition doesn't get dropped out of the running.

[sanzgo]

how would 2L OCI interviewers know that a particular applicant needs work authorization? i thought it was illegal to ask that kind of stuff. or is it more of a "*checks resume. asian name, check. asian accent, check. foreign undergrad, check. yup, this person needs work authorization"

if there are any caucasian biglaw associates here who do OCI interviews, could y'all comment on the whole "discrimination against asian names"-thing? no need to be politically correct and all that shit. nobody's gonna get mad, we all just wanna get jobs here folks. when you guys reflect back on some of the interviews that y'all did, do any of you feel that, once hearing a super-asian name, you maybe subconsciously started harboring certain expectations about that person that negatively contributed to your impression of him/her?

i keep hearing stories/reading statistics about how asian/black names get the short end of the stick when it comes to job interviews in general but just wanted to feel out the biglaw oci landscape. i mean, shit i would absolutely hate to drop the name i formed my identity around for all my life but if it's going to give me a nontrivial edge during OCI (not so much an edge, but a lack of disadvantage i suppose), then you can't blame 'em for dropping it. esp with 6 figures loans looming over your head.

if i had to guess, if you're a decent looking asian female, you probably don't need to drop. all other asian females + all asian guys probably benefit from dropping. sad thing is, i'm actually not trolling lol

[Phil Brooks]

how would 2L OCI interviewers know that a particular applicant needs work authorization? i thought it was illegal to ask that kind of stuff. or is it more of a "*checks resume. asian name, check. asian accent, check. foreign undergrad, check. yup, this person needs work authorization"

if there are any caucasian biglaw associates here who do OCI interviews, could y'all comment on the whole "discrimination against asian names"-thing? no need to be politically correct and all that shit. nobody's gonna get mad, we all just wanna get jobs here folks. when you guys reflect back on some of the interviews that y'all did, do any of you feel that, once hearing a super-asian name, you maybe subconsciously started harboring certain expectations about that person that negatively contributed to your impression of him/her?

i keep hearing stories/reading statistics about how asian/black names get the short end of the stick when it comes to job interviews in general but just wanted to feel out the biglaw oci landscape. i mean, shit i would absolutely hate to drop the name i formed my identity around for all my life but if it's going to give me a nontrivial edge during OCI (not so much an edge, but a lack of disadvantage i suppose), then you can't blame 'em for dropping it. esp with 6 figures loans looming over your head.

if i had to guess, if you're a decent looking asian female, you probably don't need to drop. all other asian females + all asian guys probably benefit from dropping. sad thing is, i'm actually not trolling lol

Not to be harsh, but your experience as a foreigner better provide you with special skills that most Americans don't have. Ideally the native language of your home country will be useful to the firm or the law of your home country/region will be useful to the firm. If you're just a generic applicant like all other generic applicants + you have the added burden of needing work authorization, you will be discriminated against.

All this means is choose your firms carefully. Maybe the firms that do work involving the law, culture, or native language of your home country are not the most prestigious or highest Vault ranked. But if the highest Vault ranked firms just do domestic American litigation (or even transactional) work, it would be objectively silly to limit your search to them.

[Anonymous User]

how would 2L OCI interviewers know that a particular applicant needs work authorization? i thought it was illegal to ask that kind of stuff. or is it more of a "*checks resume. asian name, check. asian accent, check. foreign undergrad, check. yup, this person needs work authorization"

if there are any caucasian biglaw associates here who do OCI interviews, could y'all comment on the whole "discrimination against asian names"-thing? no need to be politically correct and all that shit. nobody's gonna get mad, we all just wanna get jobs here folks. when you guys reflect back on some of the interviews that y'all did, do any of you feel that, once hearing a super-asian name, you maybe subconsciously started harboring certain expectations about that person that negatively contributed to your impression of him/her?

i keep hearing stories/reading statistics about how asian/black names get the short end of the stick when it comes to job interviews in general but just wanted to feel out the biglaw oci landscape. i mean, shit i would absolutely hate to drop the name i formed my identity around for all my life but if it's going to give me a nontrivial edge during OCI (not so much an edge, but a lack of disadvantage i suppose), then you can't blame 'em for dropping it. esp with 6 figures loans looming over your head.

if i had to guess, if you're a decent looking asian female, you probably don't need to drop. all other asian females + all asian guys probably benefit from dropping. sad thing is, i'm actually not trolling lol

Well for some foreign students, their resume pretty much shows they need work authorization (e.g. coming to the U.S. for law school straight from abroad)

[TheoO]

telltale signs would be a foreign undergrad. like if you transferred to a US school from another school, typically from China, that would be easy to spot. If on the othethand, you went to college and or high school in the US that is harder to spot and will mean firms will have a harder time. But info gets out at some point.

[sanzgo]

telltale signs would be a foreign undergrad. like if you transferred to a US school from another school, typically from China, that would be easy to spot. If on the othethand, you went to college and or high school in the US that is harder to spot and will mean firms will have a harder time. But info gets out at some point.

wouldn't it be silly to list my high school though? (i graduated from US middle+high school)

[Npret]

I used to do some interviewing for my former V10 firm. Never heard anything about this discrimination. Never felt any differently about an Asian name. I'm Caucasian and my family has been here since just after the Mayflower if that matters to you for some reason.

To be fair I doubt anyone would post admitting that discrimination exists at their firm.

[TheoO]

telltale signs would be a foreign undergrad. like if you transferred to a US school from another school, typically from China, that would be easy to spot. If on the othethand, you went to college and or high school in the US that is harder to spot and will mean firms will have a harder time. But info gets out at some point.

wouldn't it be silly to list my high school though? (i graduated from US middle+high school)

I mean, nobody is listing high school, and honestly, I dont think this discrimination is happening. But I don't know, I didn't go through the experience. Off the top of my head, the people who I know who need H1bs did fine for themselves.

[albanach]

Well for some foreign students, their resume pretty much shows they need work authorization (e.g. coming to the U.S. for law school straight from abroad)

Yet you don't know if they're a citizen, permanent resident or have some other work authorization. National origin discrimination is a real thing that the Government will investigate complaints about. For a big firm with a decent class size that can afford some attrition, the risk is much smaller to accept someone might not get authorization that to risk that.

Stats wouldn't be difficult to generate, since most schools keep track of OCI outcomes.

[RictusErectus]

Hey everyone,

I'm a first year associate at a biglaw firm in a major market, currently on OPT, and at this point, pretty much not getting an H1B visa through the lottery. Anyone else out there in the same boat? How is your firm resolving the situation?

Hey OP, is there any chance I can persuade you to DM me? I will be in a similar place soon so I'd love to know more — the nitty-gritties especially

[MangoPapi]

Do you guys think those with TN status will go through the same difficulties as those requiring H1B during OCI? I understand that those with TN do eventually require sponsorship

[Anonymous User]

The legal risk of nationality discrimination basically doesn't exist. We are not talking about firms rejecting stellar candidates who need work authorization. The point is things tend to be more difficult for solid candidates who need work authorization than similar candidates who don't. This may not even be sensible from the interview itself. For firms that have encountered problems with the lottery (e.g. having to let someone go cuz that person didn't win the lottery and the firm doesn't want to put that person overseas for a year), the firm HR may very well tell the interviewer beforehand that they prefer not to hire someone who needs work authorization, and the interviewer could still make you feel like you had a good interview.

[freekick]

Every candidate dependent on work authorisation is a risk for firms because of the lottery. Whether a firm wants to take that risk would seem to depend on what the individual brings to the table and how dearly the firms needs/wants it. Even domestic leaning US firms have sponsored H1B in the past. (Source: USCIS data.) Hiring international JDs thus appears to be an applicant-centric process more than a firm-centric one. That said, some firms do sponsor more applicants than others every year. (Source: USCIS data.)

So, one's chances of (a) getting an SA at OCI and (b) relocating abroad if struck out in H1B lottery - wait for it - 'depend'.

[Npret]

telltale signs would be a foreign undergrad. like if you transferred to a US school from another school, typically from China, that would be easy to spot. If on the othethand, you went to college and or high school in the US that is harder to spot and will mean firms will have a harder time. But info gets out at some point.

wouldn't it be silly to list my high school though? (i graduated from US middle+high school)

I mean, nobody is listing high school, and honestly, I dont think this discrimination is happening. But I don't know, I didn't go through the experience. Off the top of my head, the people who I know who need H1bs did fine for themselves.

I'm not going to advise you one way or the other but I have seen resumes where people who went to prep schools or exclusive private high schools in the city list their high school on the resume. It's rare but I've seen it. If you think it might help, I wouldn't say absolutely don't do it. I'm neutral on whether it would help.

[Anonymous User]

Very helpful discussion everyone.

I second Freekick's previous question: at what point should a candidate reveals that he/she needs visa and ask about the firm's approach on this. Or would the best strategy be just remain silent until one is actually in, if that's the case the candidate also risks himself/herself in the uncertainty of the firm's sponsorship policy.

[JustMe83]

Very helpful discussion everyone.

I second Freekick's previous question: at what point should a candidate reveals that he/she needs visa and ask about the firm's approach on this. Or would the best strategy be just remain silent until one is actually in, if that's the case the candidate also risks himself/herself in the uncertainty of the firm's sponsorship policy.

I don't really see any reason for someone to reveal that they require sponsorship during interviewing if they aren't asked about it. But I'm pretty sure that your firm would certainly find out before you start working as a SA when you have to fill out all of the employment paperwork, so you would probably want to ask before accepting an offer. That said, I had some CB's where they had me fill out an 'application' with all the standard questions before the interviews, so presumably in these cases the firms would know before making a decision.

[Anonymous User]

Very helpful discussion everyone.

I second Freekick's previous question: at what point should a candidate reveals that he/she needs visa and ask about the firm's approach on this. Or would the best strategy be just remain silent until one is actually in, if that's the case the candidate also risks himself/herself in the uncertainty of the firm's sponsorship policy.

I don't really see any reason for someone to reveal that they require sponsorship during interviewing if they aren't asked about it. But I'm pretty sure that your firm would certainly find out before you start working as a SA when you have to fill out all of the employment paperwork, so you would probably want to ask before accepting an offer. That said, I had some CB's where they had me fill out an 'application' with all the standard questions before the interviews, so presumably in these cases the firms would know before making a decision.

Very informative. Thank you so much.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, I read about the "master’s degree or higher CAP pointing out "The FIRST 20.000" if that is correct, that mean if your employee apply for you right away 1 april you get the visa securely? (having the JD degree already)

from uscis.gov:

How USCIS Determines If an H-1B Petition Is Subject to the FY 2019 Cap
An exemption from the H-1B cap for beneficiaries who have earned a U.S. master’s degree or higher (commonly known as the “advanced degree exemption”) is available until the number of beneficiaries who are exempt on this basis exceeds 20,000

[paperrev]

Hey guys, I read about the "master’s degree or higher CAP pointing out "The FIRST 20.000" if that is correct, that mean if your employee apply for you right away 1 april you get the visa securely? (having the JD degree already)

from uscis.gov:

How USCIS Determines If an H-1B Petition Is Subject to the FY 2019 Cap
An exemption from the H-1B cap for beneficiaries who have earned a U.S. master’s degree or higher (commonly known as the “advanced degree exemption”) is available until the number of beneficiaries who are exempt on this basis exceeds 20,000

No. This is just the advanced degree lottery. How it works is that they have 20,000 spots for advanced degree holders. If the number of people who apply for that degree class exceed 20,000 (which it undoubtedly will), then they run a lottery to see who will get those 20,000 spots. The people who do not get the visa through that lottery will then be added to the regular H-1B lottery (for undergrad degrees) for 65,000 spots and then run through the lottery again. So essentially, you get to apply twice, but it is not a sure thing. I know several people who have not go it, even applying as an advanced degree holder.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all -

I know the post is a few years old, but wanted to share my recent experience and see if anyone can relate and/or share any words of advice. I got a biglaw full-time offer, and unfortunately it is the only amlaw 100 that doesn’t have overseas offices so L-1, London/Canada is not an option apparently. I am a 3L and the firm just applied fo the FY 2022 h-1b cycle and of course I didn’t get picked. I assume at this point I will use my OPT and re-try for h-1b next year. The question is: what’s gonna happen if I don’t get h-1b next year? Any alternative options to h-1? Can the firm apply for green card directly, or better - is that a conversation I can have with the firm at some point? Could the firm submit a referral on my behalf with a firm they have a relationship with and that is based in London eventually?

I am seriously demotivated and exhausted. I gave up everything to stay in the US, be in the top of my class and secure a biglaw spot. And the fun part of the matter is that during OCI I interviewed for a SA position with a US law firm in London and didn’t get the callback .... if things go south, I will have to drop law and do something else I guess

[NoLongerALurker]

Hi all -

I know the post is a few years old, but wanted to share my recent experience and see if anyone can relate and/or share any words of advice. I got a biglaw full-time offer, and unfortunately it is the only amlaw 100 that doesn’t have overseas offices so L-1, London/Canada is not an option apparently. I am a 3L and the firm just applied fo the FY 2022 h-1b cycle and of course I didn’t get picked. I assume at this point I will use my OPT and re-try for h-1b next year. The question is: what’s gonna happen if I don’t get h-1b next year? Any alternative options to h-1? Can the firm apply for green card directly, or better - is that a conversation I can have with the firm at some point? Could the firm submit a referral on my behalf with a firm they have a relationship with and that is based in London eventually?

I am seriously demotivated and exhausted. I gave up everything to stay in the US, be in the top of my class and secure a biglaw spot. And the fun part of the matter is that during OCI I interviewed for a SA position with a US law firm in London and didn’t get the callback .... if things go south, I will have to drop law and do something else I guess

Do a practice group that you can turn around and pitch for a gig in London or Hong Kong as a lateral if it comes to that. Cap markets. Then when firm tries to fire you after H1B doesn’t work out next year, lateral.

I seriously doubt they would take a second year through PERM so green card seems like a dead end (also a second year lawyer probably just wouldn’t qualify for a PERM certification, especially with the firm that initially hired them) and I wouldn’t bank on their generosity to “refer” you.

OPT -> fingers crossed next H1B lottery -> have a backup plan.

[Anonymous User]

The discrimination is sadly very real. I'm somewhere in the top 20% at a T10 school, fluent in 2 languages, and was told I'm an above average interviewer. I struck out with every single firm that asked whether I would need H1B sponsorship (their way of getting around the anti nationality discrimination laws), but I got offers at firms which didn't. I'm going to a great firm, and I'm incredibly grateful for it. But I certainly had to jump over many more hurdles than peer applicants. The Google Legal Institute outright told me they wouldn't even consider my application because their partner firms don't sponsor H1Bs (f*ck u Cleary for bragging about your great international work lol). If you need a visa I strongly recommend tons of research into firms that are international friendly. Firms will out themselves by outright asking on the application if you will need any sort of immigration-related sponsorship in the future. I had great experiences with secondary-market-born firms in those markets, and some major market firms with international offices proud of their cross-border work. Particularly, look at firms with offices in your home countries or in countries where any languages you speak are spoken (English or otherwise). In addition, pretty much all work done by US JDs in international offices is transactional, so go that route instead of lit unless you're certain you can stay.

I am very happy to talk to anyone about my experiences! I also realize that I'm very fortunate to be marrying an amazing US citizen soon (although firms didn't know this), so I won't face the tallest hurdle international students face.