Summer Associate Class of 2017 Forum

[2014]

I've never been to a summer reception but the invites came in. Other than being a normal human being and not being desperate af, any advice on how to make the event worth it?

Either be memorable in a positive way or be mostly anonymous and use it for information gathering.

Being on the attendance list is important but after that any benefit will require someone to remember your name and conversation days or weeks later and that can be tough to do in a mass reception setting.

Assuming I'm somewhat indicative of others, it takes a VERY positive performance for me to put in a good word and most memorable interactions were memorable for the wrong reasons so the more conservative approach is just to attend and absorb and use the information you learn in an interview later in the summer.

[axel.foley]

I've never been to a summer reception but the invites came in. Other than being a normal human being and not being desperate af, any advice on how to make the event worth it?

Eat and drink a lot. But seriously, practice talking to lawyers, see what's on their mind. That's what will help you for OCI.

I never went to any of those events, just always felt too forced to socialize, awkward, and having little to no chance of creating a job opportunity. I think the real benefit is just to practice talking/communicating

An additional benefit is just having a convincing answer during OCI when an interviewer inevitably asks you why you want to work at their firm. These firms are so similar - especially from the information available online - that it's hard to come up with a convincing substantive answer. But if you can say, at a reception I talked to these associates and partners and they mentioned XYZ reasons they like it here, you come off as someone who did your homework. Often at a reception you'll find out things you might not necessarily be able to from generally available information. But even if it's the same information, it's more convincing to say that Tom, Dick, and Harry all told me what a great experience they had in the rotation system so I want to do it as well as opposed to just saying you like the rotation system generally.

[buckiguy_sucks]

I've never been to a summer reception but the invites came in. Other than being a normal human being and not being desperate af, any advice on how to make the event worth it?

Eat and drink a lot. But seriously, practice talking to lawyers, see what's on their mind. That's what will help you for OCI.

I never went to any of those events, just always felt too forced to socialize, awkward, and having little to no chance of creating a job opportunity. I think the real benefit is just to practice talking/communicating

They create job opportunities if you make them create job opportunities. If you follow up with attorneys you click with then they can lead to interviews and offers

If you suck at networking then yeah they're not going to do you any good

[Anonymous User]

I've never been to a summer reception but the invites came in. Other than being a normal human being and not being desperate af, any advice on how to make the event worth it?

Eat and drink a lot. But seriously, practice talking to lawyers, see what's on their mind. That's what will help you for OCI.

I never went to any of those events, just always felt too forced to socialize, awkward, and having little to no chance of creating a job opportunity. I think the real benefit is just to practice talking/communicating

They create job opportunities if you make them create job opportunities. If you follow up with attorneys you click with then they can lead to interviews and offers

If you suck at networking then yeah they're not going to do you any good

While I don't know anyone at the office, I met one of their attorneys at an networking-ish event so I was going to reach out to them and ask who I should reach out to in this office and then mention that I'm here because that attorney suggested that I learn more about the firm. Also I have been told that I can hold a conversation, so here's to hoping that works.

[barkschool]

I didn't realize it at the time, but these events are the best for "why X firm?" answers later on. Easy to ask why someone else joined, then just repeat that with spin when you interview.

[Anonymous User]

I've never been to a summer reception but the invites came in. Other than being a normal human being and not being desperate af, any advice on how to make the event worth it?

I'm an SA who just went to a reception for rising 2Ls. It also gives a feel for the people at the firm and is a chance for you to ask questions you might not want to ask during an interview. Students asked about tips for interviewing, tips for the application process, favorite part of the SA program, favorite assignment, do I like the work I'm getting, etc etc. One weird/eye brow raising Q during an interview is something you want to avoid. At a reception, no one is going to remember what you asked unless it was REALLY bad.

Ask information you want to know. Talk to people and ask yourself whether or not you actually like the people you're talking to. It could help rule out a firm or make you really excited to apply somewhere (I didn't love my some of my interviewers, but have loved everyone I've worked with this summer. A reception like that would have showed me that earlier.)

Try to find/meet alumni from your school. Follow up with an email thanking them for their time/asking to have coffee/talk further. A few associates said whenever students follow up with them they send their resumes on to recruiting - a better alternative to mass mailing.

Those are probably my top tips based on what I saw. But don't make people feel like you are drilling them. I had one person walk up to me, introduce herself, ask five question in quick succession, and then leave to talk to someone else as soon as she got her answers.

[Anonymous User]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

[Anonymous User]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

I'd send an email that quickly says like "I am finding a lot of x but not a lot y. Do you have any suggestions for how best to address the question?"

[zhenders]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

Keep track of where you looked, and what keyword searches you ran. It's helpful for them to know what you actually did, and it can help to show that you actually searched competently.

[Anonymous User]

Started my second half today. Wore a suit and tie, partner told me to dress down from now on. Not that I expected to, but pretty happy I don't have to deal with that shit every day. Good start.

[Anonymous User]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

Welcome to legal practice. If answers were obvious you wouldn't need to pay someone upwards of $1,000 an hour.

[A. Nony Mouse]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

Why are you posting in this thread, 4L?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

Welcome to legal practice. If answers were obvious you wouldn't need to pay someone upwards of $1,000 an hour.

Based on (i) egregious use of anon, (ii) douchey tone, and (iii) stupid answer, you are a law student and likely K-JD.

[Anonymous User]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

Welcome to legal practice. If answers were obvious you wouldn't need to pay someone upwards of $1,000 an hour.

Based on (i) egregious use of anon, (ii) douchey tone, and (iii) stupid answer, you are a law student and likely K-JD.

Stupid answer? You really expect to find direct support for every legal theory you have? Sure, sometimes a position is genuinely untenable but the majority of the time the answer is far from simple and you need to look outside the box. Life is not law school.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

How do you guys handle those memos where the law the assigning attorney is looking for just isn't out there? Or is the opposite of the position you are looking for?

Welcome to legal practice. If answers were obvious you wouldn't need to pay someone upwards of $1,000 an hour.

Based on (i) egregious use of anon, (ii) douchey tone, and (iii) stupid answer, you are a law student and likely K-JD.

Stupid answer? You really expect to find direct support for every legal theory you have? Sure, sometimes a position is genuinely untenable but the majority of the time the answer is far from simple and you need to look outside the box. Life is not law school.

How would you know? You're still in law school anon.

[BlendedUnicorn]

Yeah what is going on here. Anon asker, wtf? And anon answerer, stop using anon to be a dick.

[BlendedUnicorn]

Anyway, "anon number one" your question really has two parts to it.

The first is what to do if you find an answer that you don't think your assigning attorney wants to hear. For that, the correct response is to a: make sure you're right about that and b: tell them the bad news. The absolute worst thing you can do is to spin an answer in any way to make the result sound more positive or whatever. That's their job. Your job is to give them an impartial analysis of the law.

The second question is what to do if you just can't find the answer. Again, honesty is the key, but you want to make sure it's clear you didn't just give up after like 5 minutes with Westlaw. Keeping track of your search history is a good idea, as is making sure you're clear on the assignment. Since you can, you really should take a look at the graduate forum- a lot of the associates cop to assigning questions they don't think are answerable to summers as a way of making them go away/throwing up a hail marry. You've got to know the nature of the assignment (is it time sensitive, do they want a memo or just a quick answer, would they care about close analogies or out of circuit/state answers, etc...) but if you've got time write a response that leads with "I could not find a direct answer" and then goes into your best guess based on your research and kind of illuminates your research process.

But, like, only do that if you think it would be helpful to your assigning attorney. Getting them an answer might be the priority, even if that answer is "there is no answer."

[Anonymous User]

I hate this so much. Ugh

[Anonymous User]

I hate this so much. Ugh

Same. Have even though about quitting, as insane as that is.

[Anonymous User]

I hate this so much. Ugh

Same. Have even though about quitting, as insane as that is.

Me too! It helps to know I'm not the only person not loving the SA life.

For me one of the worst parts is that people keep pressuring me to act like it's fun. I mean, there's only so much to enjoy about hanging out with associates who seem miserable and burnt out and partners who are clearly evaluating me...at this point it would be a relief to show up and just do work (that will inevitably be useless or, worse, wrong) and then go the fuck home without talking to anyone.

[KunAgnis]

I hate this so much. Ugh

Same. Have even though about quitting, as insane as that is.

Me too! It helps to know I'm not the only person not loving the SA life.

For me one of the worst parts is that people keep pressuring me to act like it's fun. I mean, there's only so much to enjoy about hanging out with associates who seem miserable and burnt out and partners who are clearly evaluating me...at this point it would be a relief to show up and just do work (that will inevitably be useless or, worse, wrong) and then go the fuck home without talking to anyone.

For me it would be tolerable if it was once a week thing - but there are usually at least 3 events a week and they're not exactly optional. Hard to keep up when we go to all of these while the attorneys can pick and choose.

[Anonymous User]

I hate this so much. Ugh

Same. Have even though about quitting, as insane as that is.

Me too! It helps to know I'm not the only person not loving the SA life.

For me one of the worst parts is that people keep pressuring me to act like it's fun. I mean, there's only so much to enjoy about hanging out with associates who seem miserable and burnt out and partners who are clearly evaluating me...at this point it would be a relief to show up and just do work (that will inevitably be useless or, worse, wrong) and then go the fuck home without talking to anyone.

For me it would be tolerable if it was once a week thing - but there are usually at least 3 events a week and they're not exactly optional. Hard to keep up when we go to all of these while the attorneys can pick and choose.

I don't go to any of them and IDGAF. whats the worst that can happen, they don't offer me a job?

[snowball2]

I don't go to any of them and IDGAF. whats the worst that can happen, they don't offer me a job?

So you're only attending law school for the anxiety or sleeplessness?

[Anonymous User]

I don't go to any of them and IDGAF. whats the worst that can happen, they don't offer me a job?

So you're only attending law school for the anxiety or sleeplessness?

Yeah that and the jobs that pay like crap.

[RaceJudicata]

I hate this so much. Ugh

Same. Have even though about quitting, as insane as that is.

Me too! It helps to know I'm not the only person not loving the SA life.

For me one of the worst parts is that people keep pressuring me to act like it's fun. I mean, there's only so much to enjoy about hanging out with associates who seem miserable and burnt out and partners who are clearly evaluating me...at this point it would be a relief to show up and just do work (that will inevitably be useless or, worse, wrong) and then go the fuck home without talking to anyone.

For me it would be tolerable if it was once a week thing - but there are usually at least 3 events a week and they're not exactly optional. Hard to keep up when we go to all of these while the attorneys can pick and choose.

I totally understand if y'all don't like the substance of the work and would rather be doing something else. But yikes, sounds like you guys just don't want a job. All jobs -- Public Interest, small law, midlaw, nonlegal, etc. have inherent responsibilites (e.g., do your work, get evaluated by superiors, play nice in the office by going to work events, etc.).

Going to be a tough road to hoe if the minimal responsibilites of a SA have y'all so shaken.

Again, I totally understand if its the substance of the work, but it sounds like your gripes are about the stuff that is inherent in any job. Don't kid yourselves -- your friends at public interest gigs/etc. are being evaluated, forced to attend events, etc.