Big law associate in SF -- where do you live with family? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'd check out the East Bay for sure - Concord, Walnut Creek, and Pleasant Hill would be good. You can get a four bedroom in Concord (and parts of Pleasant Hill) for under $750K. Walnut Creek is inching towards $1 million but there are some really great schools there. Lots of people living there commute into the city on BART every day.

[rpupkin]

would rather live in Evanston than El Cerrito, but to each his own I guess.

I wasn't opining on whether Evanston is nicer than El Cerrito or Albany. I was just responding to bruinfan's "NOT decent commutes" comment. If you want to buy a large house for a big family in a residential neighborhood, it's going to be tough to avoid a long commute. Your Evanston example supports that--the commute from Evanston to downtown Chicago is similar to the commute from Albany/El Cerrito to the Financial District in SF.

[dabigchina]

would rather live in Evanston than El Cerrito, but to each his own I guess.

I wasn't opining on whether Evanston is nicer than El Cerrito or Albany. I was just responding to bruinfan's "NOT decent commutes" comment. If you want to buy a large house for a big family in a residential neighborhood, it's going to be tough to avoid a long commute. Your Evanston example supports that--the commute from Evanston to downtown Chicago is similar to the commute from Albany/El Cerrito to the Financial District in SF.

I used to live near Oakland 19th street and my door to door to Montgomery street station was 35-40 mins when Bart wasn't running late.

Somehow I seriously doubt u are getting into the city from el cerito in under an hour.

[rpupkin]

would rather live in Evanston than El Cerrito, but to each his own I guess.

I wasn't opining on whether Evanston is nicer than El Cerrito or Albany. I was just responding to bruinfan's "NOT decent commutes" comment. If you want to buy a large house for a big family in a residential neighborhood, it's going to be tough to avoid a long commute. Your Evanston example supports that--the commute from Evanston to downtown Chicago is similar to the commute from Albany/El Cerrito to the Financial District in SF.

I used to live near Oakland 19th street and my door to door to Montgomery street station was 35-40 mins when Bart wasn't running late.

It's of course not a 35-40 minute BART ride from Oakland 19th to the FiDi. You're obviously adding in walking and waiting time--which you'd have to do with an Evanston-Chicago commute as well.

[bruinfan10]

I'm not sure that's true. Chicago real estate is an order of magnitude cheaper than NYC and SF.

Chicago is not an "order of magnitude" cheaper, but it is much cheaper. The point is that if you have a large family and you want to live in a nice neighborhood with good schools, it's not going to be easy to find something close to work.

you can get a 4br 3ba for around 600k in Evanston. 40 min commute. You can easily afford a 2500 mortgage on an associate's salary.

Exactly.

would rather live in Evanston than El Cerrito, but to each his own I guess.

El Cerrito wasn't 40 minutes door to door either, much closer to an hour even without Bart delays, which are constant and relentless. No way I was doing 2 hours of commuting best case largely in a urine soaked cattle car with spotty cell reception and no wifi ON TOP of my BigLaw hours (and you're telling me you're going to do that with kids you want to see once in a while??) Come on now.

Parking at BART stations is a big hassle---reserved passes are on years-long waiting lists at a number of stations---and there's not an insignificant level of crime as you head toward Richmond (I had locks cut on my cheap wal-mart bikes twice). my BL friends in SF don't live that far into the East Bay....they just paid way way more than 750k for houses in SF and Oakland.

the thing that really got me is that their houses and neighborhoods in the east bay (and large swathes of the peninsula) suck. Maybe the schools are good, I don't have kids so I tune out when that topic comes up. But imho real estate all over the overcrowded, strip-mall-y Bay is outrageously overpriced compared to what you can get in other, better cities. OP, my $.02, RUN, don't walk, away from SF.

[dabigchina]

I'm not sure that's true. Chicago real estate is an order of magnitude cheaper than NYC and SF.

Chicago is not an "order of magnitude" cheaper, but it is much cheaper. The point is that if you have a large family and you want to live in a nice neighborhood with good schools, it's not going to be easy to find something close to work.

you can get a 4br 3ba for around 600k in Evanston. 40 min commute. You can easily afford a 2500 mortgage on an associate's salary.

Exactly.

would rather live in Evanston than El Cerrito, but to each his own I guess.

El Cerrito wasn't 40 minutes door to door either, much closer to an hour even without Bart delays, which are constant and relentless. No way I was doing 2 hours of commuting best case largely in a urine soaked cattle car with spotty cell reception and no wifi ON TOP of my BigLaw hours (and you're telling me you're going to do that with kids you want to see once in a while??) Come on now.

Parking at BART stations is a big hassle---reserved passes are on years-long waiting lists at a number of stations---and there's not an insignificant level of crime as you head toward Richmond (I had locks cut on my cheap wal-mart bikes twice). my BL friends in SF don't live that far into the East Bay....they just paid way way more than 750k for houses in SF and Oakland.

the thing that really got me is that their houses and neighborhoods in the east bay (and large swathes of the peninsula) suck. Maybe the schools are good, I don't have kids so I tune out when that topic comes up. But imho real estate all over the overcrowded, strip-mall-y Bay is outrageously overpriced compared to what you can get in other, better cities. OP, my $.02, RUN, don't walk, away from SF.

+1 to all of this. People who don't have family obligations or who are not getting giant raises should stay far away from the Bay Area.

[BottomOfTotem]

It all comes down to commute. Just about anywhere outside of SF proper will take some time. With that said, you can certainly find a 4 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood if you're willing to commute 45-1hour each way. For example, just about everywhere in Marin county has a good school district, and central to northern Marin have houses of that size for 750-1m. They are not necessarily the norm, but they are also not incredibly rare.

I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of neighborhoods that are fine in the Bay Area that have homes at that price range, they just include a similar commute.

Put succinctly, you're looking at a 45+ minute commute, which sounds like it is not uncommon for peer markets.

Ps - go with the advice of rupkin (sp), regarding renting. Traffic flow, weather, food, nightlife, etc all considerably vary.

[Mr. Fancy]

The lesson from all of this is to not have kids. Makes things so much easier.

[Abbie Doobie]

this thread just further solidifies my desire to never want to live in the bay area. which is too bad because, as a patent attorney, there are a ton of in-house jobs there.

[Anonymous User]

The lesson from all of this is to not have kids. Makes things so much easier.

+1, and also have boomer parents who already live in the Bay Area. If you're okay with working until 80-90 just to pay off a mortgage on a standard house, then by all means...some of us would rather not work until we die though.

I was born and raised in the Bay, now live in NYC. I've been considering moving back but it looks like the only way I'd ever do that if is I ended up living with my parents again. The COL is obscene. Now I'm looking to move to Denver/Seattle/somewhere more manageable but also nice. I don't get people who don't come from family money who settle down in the Bay or NYC.....like wut? Do you want to work until you literally die?

[Abbie Doobie]

also, to me, i don't think that a 45 min-1hr commute by train is that bad because i just get work done on the train. driving, on the other hand, would be absolute pure hell.

[Anonymous User]

also, to me, i don't think that a 45 min-1hr commute by train is that bad because i just get work done on the train. driving, on the other hand, would be absolute pure hell.

Having done that in NYC biglaw, it's also bad. Because you end up spending like 14-18 hours commuting plus in the office on an average day. I also hate taking public transportation and having to commute on someone else's schedule.

I just want to live somewhere where I can drive 15-20 minutes one way and be there.

[dabigchina]

this thread just further solidifies my desire to never want to live in the bay area.

This is exactly what the housing policy in the Bay Area is designed to do. See: http://sf.curbed.com/2016/8/23/12603188 ... -interview

[Anonymous User]

The lesson from all of this is to not have kids. Makes things so much easier.

+1, and also have boomer parents who already live in the Bay Area. If you're okay with working until 80-90 just to pay off a mortgage on a standard house, then by all means...some of us would rather not work until we die though.

I was born and raised in the Bay, now live in NYC. I've been considering moving back but it looks like the only way I'd ever do that if is I ended up living with my parents again. The COL is obscene. Now I'm looking to move to Denver/Seattle/somewhere more manageable but also nice. I don't get people who don't come from family money who settle down in the Bay or NYC.....like wut? Do you want to work until you literally die?

Haha, I just get this image of a big law of counsel living in her parent's basement. SF is crazy!

[Abbie Doobie]

Having done that in NYC biglaw, it's also bad. Because you end up spending like 14-18 hours commuting plus in the office on an average day. I also hate taking public transportation and having to commute on someone else's schedule.

i hate to break it to you, but your life probably sucks not because 2 hours of your 14-18 hour day is commuting, it's because 12-14 hours of it is spent grinding away in biglaw. i'm in-house and may day is 10-12 hours with 2 hours of commuting, which isn't that bad at all (or uncommon in the working world outside of law).

I just want to live somewhere where I can drive 15-20 minutes one way and be there.

i know, me too, i wanted to live in river forest, not way out in naperville/downers grove/wheaton area. but so does every boomer, director, vp, president, c-level officer, partner, etc., that works in the city. but they got their first, and the ones that are getting there now are making way more than you and i ever will

[Anonymous User]

The lesson from all of this is to not have kids. Makes things so much easier.

+1, and also have boomer parents who already live in the Bay Area. If you're okay with working until 80-90 just to pay off a mortgage on a standard house, then by all means...some of us would rather not work until we die though.

I was born and raised in the Bay, now live in NYC. I've been considering moving back but it looks like the only way I'd ever do that if is I ended up living with my parents again. The COL is obscene. Now I'm looking to move to Denver/Seattle/somewhere more manageable but also nice. I don't get people who don't come from family money who settle down in the Bay or NYC.....like wut? Do you want to work until you literally die?

Haha, I just get this image of a big law of counsel living in her parent's basement. SF is crazy!

Yup, unless you come from family money, I think buying in SF/NYC is insane. I guess I've just realized I'd rather retire at 45-50 living with my parents and saving up $$ than having some huge mortgage and having to work until 80 just to retire/hoping my real estate investment would pay off (and who knows at this point - a lot of places probably won't beat the market if you buy now).

This is the new American dream - living with parents (even if married) and stacking cash through adulthood.

[favabeansoup]

This is the new American dream - living with parents (even if married) and stacking cash through adulthood.

Unless you live in the rest of America that's not SF/NYC where you can actually afford to work, buy a home, and retire early all by yourself if you are smart and have a decent job.

[zot1]

What I got out of this thread is that I should never move to San Francisco.

[rpupkin]

What I got out of this thread is that I should never move to San Francisco.

The TLS dream is to do big law in Houston, remain a virgin, live with your parents, and retire at 42.

[Abbie Doobie]

What I got out of this thread is that I should never move to San Francisco.

The TLS dream is to do big law in Houston, remain a virgin, live with your parents, and retire at 42.

the saddest part of all of this is that the tls dream is still involves doing biglaw

[Anonymous User]

What I got out of this thread is that I should never move to San Francisco.

The TLS dream is to do big law in Houston, remain a virgin, live with your parents, and retire at 42.

the saddest part of all of this is that the tls dream is still involves doing biglaw

I thought the TLS dream was to be able to live off of prestige and not have to work

[zot1]

What I got out of this thread is that I should never move to San Francisco.

The TLS dream is to do big law in Houston, remain a virgin, live with your parents, and retire at 42.

the saddest part of all of this is that the tls dream is still involves doing biglaw

I thought the TLS dream was to be able to live off of prestige and not have to work

lol definitely not my dream. I am in a low COL area, not doing biglaw, not living with my parents BUT there's no way I get to retire at 42. I admit *that* would be my dream.

As a former Californian though, I do not miss the long commutes. That's time of my life I'll never get back.

[Anonymous User]

What I got out of this thread is that I should never move to San Francisco.

The TLS dream is to do big law in Houston, remain a virgin, live with your parents, and retire at 42.

the saddest part of all of this is that the tls dream is still involves doing biglaw

I thought the TLS dream was to be able to live off of prestige and not have to work

The TLS dream is to inherit lots of money, win the lotto or marry rich and never have to work for money again. Dunno if TLS really cares about prestige. If that can't be done, then I guess I'll just stick with working some shit, grinder job for a few years, live with my parents (even though I'm married lols), and invest all of my money into the stock market and retire by 45-50.

[Anonymous User]

This is the new American dream - living with parents (even if married) and stacking cash through adulthood.

Unless you live in the rest of America that's not SF/NYC where you can actually afford to work, buy a home, and retire early all by yourself if you are smart and have a decent job.

Easier for non-lawyers to find these jobs. Law is unfortunately centered in major metro areas.

Another reason why I shouldn't have gone to law school.....

[Anonymous User]

Anything under a million is hard. Most houses are 1.2-4 million a piece. If you work in downtown SF, you can try Daly City. If you're in SV, maybe downtown SJ. Other than that, you're looking at ~1.5m for a house.

Piece of advice: find a 3 bedroom house and either make your kids share a room or get rid of the guest room