Summer Classes 2017 Edition Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since no one has bothered posting this:

Kirkland & Ellis - NYC

NYU - 14
Columbia - 9
Harvard - 9
Berkeley - 6
Georgetown - 5
GWU - 5
Fordham - 5
Cornell - 4
Penn - 4
Chicago - 3
Cardozo - 3
Duke - 2
Michigan - 2
Northwestern - 2
UVA - 2
Tulane - 1
Minnesota - 1
Boston College - 1
Emory - 1

79 Total

[bearsfan23]

At least two Cornellians turned down Wachtell for Cravath and another firm this year. Whether they are dummies remain to be seen, but it happens

What do you mean "remains to be seen". The firms are very similar and your hours are pretty much the same, but Watchell pays almost twice as much.

Not really a tough choice

[Anonymous User]

Cornell seems to be the opposite with respect to what people are pointing out with the Cravath trend at Yale. The top of the class at Cornell mostly took the Cravath offer over other peer firms.

This also happened at Columbia this year. Lot of people turned down Wachtell for Cravath.

Really? I've heard of one (1) person at Crvath who turned down Wachtell. Would be very surprised if it was "lots".

Anon from above. Exaggerating I guess, but I know of more than one, and with the number of offers Wachtell gives out, that's a decent proportion. Thanks for specifying one is (1) btw

[lawlorbust]

Cornell seems to be the opposite with respect to what people are pointing out with the Cravath trend at Yale. The top of the class at Cornell mostly took the Cravath offer over other peer firms.

This also happened at Columbia this year. Lot of people turned down Wachtell for Cravath.

I'm sure

Lol yeah what kind of dummy turns down wachtell for cravath or s&c?

Someone who's not interested in sell-side M&A?

[Anonymous User]

At least two Cornellians turned down Wachtell for Cravath and another firm this year. Whether they are dummies remain to be seen, but it happens

Why do people come on this site and lie? Happen to know that Wachtell gave one Cornell offer this year and it was accepted.

[Anonymous User]

Really? I heard Wachtell only offered one person at Cornell in the last few years?

Not true. At all.

I can confirm that this is not true. At all. In fact, Wachtell has offered two people at Cornell in the last few years.

[SamuelDanforth]

So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?

One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).

I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.

[RaceJudicata]

So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?

One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).

I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.

No where close to 50% of summers are splitting. The number is, IMO, more like 5%

[Anonymous User]

Very few Berkeley students in NY SAs generally, any reason why this is different for Kirkland?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?

[cron1834]

Cornell getting Wachtell offers left and right, 2Ls splitting 50% of the time... where do people come up with this stuff?

[SamuelDanforth]

So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?

One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).

I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.

No where close to 50% of summers are splitting. The number is, IMO, more like 5%

Ok, ok you made me count from the CDO '18 spreadsheet for 2L summer. 40/176 people report splitting their summer. Bad guess on my part. Mea culpa.

[Anonymous User]

Very few Berkeley students in NY SAs generally, any reason why this is different for Kirkland?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?

Berkeley 2L here, I know some of the folks going to Kirkland NY. The answer is no, nobody knows. 6 is a lot for NY. Some have NY ties, some don't. I think they just gave out a lot of offers.

[Anonymous User]

Very few Berkeley students in NY SAs generally, any reason why this is different for Kirkland?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?

Berkeley 2L here, I know some of the folks going to Kirkland NY. The answer is no, nobody knows. 6 is a lot for NY. Some have NY ties, some don't. I think they just gave out a lot of offers.

Thank you! Any chance you know the kind of grades at Berkeley someone needs for an offer like that?

[Anonymous User]

Regarding splitting--I think the numbers may go down because some firms seem to be getting less amenable to allowing people to spend the second half at their firm. E.g. MTO changed their policy this year to disallow that and a lot of that summer class used to split.

[Anonymous User]

So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?

One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).

I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.

Cravath allows you to split your summer, but only if the other firm is outside of NYC. I would guess the number who did so in last summer's class was single digits (out of 110 or so summers).

[Anonymous User]

So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?

One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).

I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.

Cravath allows you to split your summer, but only if the other firm is outside of NYC. I would guess the number who did so in last summer's class was single digits (out of 110 or so summers).

Cravath required 10 weeks when I asked to split with them and a firm outside of NY (DC/LA). It was not possible for me to split with 10 weeks at CSM. They were very difficult about splitting; DPW and S&C were much more amenable. Maybe that policy has changed since.

[Anonymous User]

Any other firms release their classes?

[Anonymous User]

Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing

[trebekismyhero]

Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing

First, Chicago has classes under 200 people usually, NYU has over 500 students. Second, on average about 1/3 of UChi students stay in chicago so that is the main reason they are lower.

[Anonymous User]

Ropes & Gray - NYC

NYU - 10
Columbia - 10
Harvard - 5
Fordham - 5
Brooklyn - 2
Cornell - 2
GWU - 2
UNC - 2
Yale - 2
Duke - 1
Michigan - 1
Georgetown - 1
BU - 1
Northeastern - 1
St. John's - 1
Santa Clara - 1
South Carolina - 1
Suffolk - 1

49 Total

[Anonymous User]

Yalies at a satellite office? Really?

[jbagelboy]

Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing

going to skadden or cravath is not the height of ambition in the private sector

the top 1/4 of chicago students are not trying to go to those firms, they're more likely trying to get away from them and consider them fallbacks

[Wild Card]

Yalies at a satellite office? Really?

And one that's only ten years old.

Hiring partner was going on and on about how they loved hiring NYU students, but 10 NYU and 10 Columbia shows that this is bullshit.

[Anonymous User]

MoFo SF (including 1Ls: diversity fellows and patent summers)

Berkeley - 12
Harvard - 8
NYU - 3
Stanford - 3
Duke - 2
Georgetown - 2
UCLA - 2
Yale - 1
Illinois - 1
Davis - 1

[lawlorbust]

Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing

going to skadden or cravath is not the height of ambition in the private sector

the top 1/4 of chicago students are not trying to go to those firms, they're more likely trying to get away from them and consider them fallbacks

Debatable but in any case nonresponsive, since the observation you were replying to was about the uchicago student body in general.