Summer Classes 2017 Edition Forum
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Since no one has bothered posting this:
Kirkland & Ellis - NYC
NYU - 14
Columbia - 9
Harvard - 9
Berkeley - 6
Georgetown - 5
GWU - 5
Fordham - 5
Cornell - 4
Penn - 4
Chicago - 3
Cardozo - 3
Duke - 2
Michigan - 2
Northwestern - 2
UVA - 2
Tulane - 1
Minnesota - 1
Boston College - 1
Emory - 1
79 Total
Kirkland & Ellis - NYC
NYU - 14
Columbia - 9
Harvard - 9
Berkeley - 6
Georgetown - 5
GWU - 5
Fordham - 5
Cornell - 4
Penn - 4
Chicago - 3
Cardozo - 3
Duke - 2
Michigan - 2
Northwestern - 2
UVA - 2
Tulane - 1
Minnesota - 1
Boston College - 1
Emory - 1
79 Total
- bearsfan23
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
What do you mean "remains to be seen". The firms are very similar and your hours are pretty much the same, but Watchell pays almost twice as much.Anonymous User wrote:At least two Cornellians turned down Wachtell for Cravath and another firm this year. Whether they are dummies remain to be seen, but it happens
Not really a tough choice
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Anon from above. Exaggerating I guess, but I know of more than one, and with the number of offers Wachtell gives out, that's a decent proportion. Thanks for specifying one is (1) btwAnonymous User wrote:Really? I've heard of one (1) person at Crvath who turned down Wachtell. Would be very surprised if it was "lots".Anonymous User wrote:This also happened at Columbia this year. Lot of people turned down Wachtell for Cravath.Anonymous User wrote:Cornell seems to be the opposite with respect to what people are pointing out with the Cravath trend at Yale. The top of the class at Cornell mostly took the Cravath offer over other peer firms.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Someone who's not interested in sell-side M&A?Rahviveh wrote:Lol yeah what kind of dummy turns down wachtell for cravath or s&c?bearsfan23 wrote:I'm sureAnonymous User wrote:This also happened at Columbia this year. Lot of people turned down Wachtell for Cravath.Anonymous User wrote:Cornell seems to be the opposite with respect to what people are pointing out with the Cravath trend at Yale. The top of the class at Cornell mostly took the Cravath offer over other peer firms.
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Why do people come on this site and lie? Happen to know that Wachtell gave one Cornell offer this year and it was accepted.Anonymous User wrote:At least two Cornellians turned down Wachtell for Cravath and another firm this year. Whether they are dummies remain to be seen, but it happens
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
I can confirm that this is not true. At all. In fact, Wachtell has offered two people at Cornell in the last few years.Anonymous User wrote:Not true. At all.Anonymous User wrote:Really? I heard Wachtell only offered one person at Cornell in the last few years?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.Anonymous User wrote:One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).Rahviveh wrote:So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
No where close to 50% of summers are splitting. The number is, IMO, more like 5%SamuelDanforth wrote:I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.Anonymous User wrote:One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).Rahviveh wrote:So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Very few Berkeley students in NY SAs generally, any reason why this is different for Kirkland?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?
- cron1834
- Posts: 2299
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:36 am
Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Cornell getting Wachtell offers left and right, 2Ls splitting 50% of the time... where do people come up with this stuff?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Ok, ok you made me count from the CDO '18 spreadsheet for 2L summer. 40/176 people report splitting their summer. Bad guess on my part. Mea culpa.RaceJudicata wrote:No where close to 50% of summers are splitting. The number is, IMO, more like 5%SamuelDanforth wrote:I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.Anonymous User wrote:One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).Rahviveh wrote:So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?
Last edited by SamuelDanforth on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Berkeley 2L here, I know some of the folks going to Kirkland NY. The answer is no, nobody knows. 6 is a lot for NY. Some have NY ties, some don't. I think they just gave out a lot of offers.Anonymous User wrote:Very few Berkeley students in NY SAs generally, any reason why this is different for Kirkland?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Thank you! Any chance you know the kind of grades at Berkeley someone needs for an offer like that?Anonymous User wrote:Berkeley 2L here, I know some of the folks going to Kirkland NY. The answer is no, nobody knows. 6 is a lot for NY. Some have NY ties, some don't. I think they just gave out a lot of offers.Anonymous User wrote:Very few Berkeley students in NY SAs generally, any reason why this is different for Kirkland?
Also do you need ties to NY for a position like that?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Regarding splitting--I think the numbers may go down because some firms seem to be getting less amenable to allowing people to spend the second half at their firm. E.g. MTO changed their policy this year to disallow that and a lot of that summer class used to split.
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Cravath allows you to split your summer, but only if the other firm is outside of NYC. I would guess the number who did so in last summer's class was single digits (out of 110 or so summers).SamuelDanforth wrote:I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.Anonymous User wrote:One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).Rahviveh wrote:So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Cravath required 10 weeks when I asked to split with them and a firm outside of NY (DC/LA). It was not possible for me to split with 10 weeks at CSM. They were very difficult about splitting; DPW and S&C were much more amenable. Maybe that policy has changed since.Anonymous User wrote:Cravath allows you to split your summer, but only if the other firm is outside of NYC. I would guess the number who did so in last summer's class was single digits (out of 110 or so summers).SamuelDanforth wrote:I suspect another factor here, so far unmentioned, is splitting. It has become very common for 2Ls (maybe 50%) to split their summer. S&C and DP both appear to be very amenable to both the classic NYC/DC inter-firm split, which is popular, and the increasingly popular small firm + big firm split. So you see numerous people doing Susman/MTO/BS + DP or S&C. Perhaps Cravath is less amenable to these set-ups, and obviously lacks the possibility of internally splitting a summer NYC + DC or SF.Anonymous User wrote:One contributing factor is that students at Yale aren't fond of the culture at Cravath or the idea of a full working summer in lit so they prefer its peers year after year--DPW and S&C are consistently in the 10-15 range, compared to CSM <5, since those firms offer the same opportunities and pedigree for people that want to spend a summer in the city. At YLS, due in part to the small class size and close-knit bordering on incestuous community, student opinions of firms from upper years have a significant impact on where the next classes choose to go; a number of well regarded students chose and work at DPW and S&C, and a number of other students may have had subpar experiences at Cravath, and that can have a lingering impact several years out. It's a very fickle process (and this doesn't apply to just these three firms): When several YLS students summer at any firm and come away with a particularly or negative and particularly positive impression--or get no-offered--word gets around. Similar at other top schools like SLS and CLS but perhaps not quite to the same extent (HLS might be large enough for relative anonymity to dominate the process, idk, although I'm sure there's institutional knowledge operating there as well).Rahviveh wrote:So cravath has only 1 Yale compared to 15ish each for DPW and S&C? What's the reason for the discrepancy here?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Any other firms release their classes?
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing
- trebekismyhero
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:26 pm
Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
First, Chicago has classes under 200 people usually, NYU has over 500 students. Second, on average about 1/3 of UChi students stay in chicago so that is the main reason they are lower.Anonymous User wrote:Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Ropes & Gray - NYC
NYU - 10
Columbia - 10
Harvard - 5
Fordham - 5
Brooklyn - 2
Cornell - 2
GWU - 2
UNC - 2
Yale - 2
Duke - 1
Michigan - 1
Georgetown - 1
BU - 1
Northeastern - 1
St. John's - 1
Santa Clara - 1
South Carolina - 1
Suffolk - 1
49 Total
NYU - 10
Columbia - 10
Harvard - 5
Fordham - 5
Brooklyn - 2
Cornell - 2
GWU - 2
UNC - 2
Yale - 2
Duke - 1
Michigan - 1
Georgetown - 1
BU - 1
Northeastern - 1
St. John's - 1
Santa Clara - 1
South Carolina - 1
Suffolk - 1
49 Total
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Yalies at a satellite office? Really?
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- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
going to skadden or cravath is not the height of ambition in the private sectorAnonymous User wrote:Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing
the top 1/4 of chicago students are not trying to go to those firms, they're more likely trying to get away from them and consider them fallbacks
- Wild Card
- Posts: 988
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm
Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
And one that's only ten years old.Anonymous User wrote:Yalies at a satellite office? Really?
Hiring partner was going on and on about how they loved hiring NYU students, but 10 NYU and 10 Columbia shows that this is bullshit.
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
MoFo SF (including 1Ls: diversity fellows and patent summers)
Berkeley - 12
Harvard - 8
NYU - 3
Stanford - 3
Duke - 2
Georgetown - 2
UCLA - 2
Yale - 1
Illinois - 1
Davis - 1
Berkeley - 12
Harvard - 8
NYU - 3
Stanford - 3
Duke - 2
Georgetown - 2
UCLA - 2
Yale - 1
Illinois - 1
Davis - 1
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Re: Summer Classes 2017 Edition
Debatable but in any case nonresponsive, since the observation you were replying to was about the uchicago student body in general.jbagelboy wrote:going to skadden or cravath is not the height of ambition in the private sectorAnonymous User wrote:Chicago places very few people into these big NYC firms like Skadden and Cravath. Is Chicago just that much worse than Columbia/NYU? Or is it more of a self-selection thing
the top 1/4 of chicago students are not trying to go to those firms, they're more likely trying to get away from them and consider them fallbacks
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