Associate Salaries in Detroit Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since NALP updated:

Bodman - $115,000
Dickinson - $110,000
Miller Canfield - $115,000
Dykema - $120,000
Honigman - $150,000
Foley - $160,000
Jones Day - $160,000

[Anonymous User]

Were the firms above the only ones in the market that bumped up this year? Or have most firms in Detroit bumped salaries?

[Anonymous User]

Haven't posted here yet, incoming SA at a firm in MI.

This Honigman raise has been an illusive topic since like September. I don't know what to think. It wasn't mentioned in their SA recruitment. If it was happening, I think it should of been because it would have helped H be a LOT more competitive compared to national firms in MI. Just my two cents FWIW.

I have a friend who is a third year there that told me that first years at Honigman is 150k now

I have a friend who is a second year that's said that the firm operates on a "black box" so that no one really knows what anyone else is making. It's all conjecture and hearsay. My friend made 125 as a first year last year.

Further, if they were actually at 150 for all associates, wouldn't they want to advertise that fact? It doesn't really follow. The website itself lists 150 as the MEDIAN salary. Meaning that half of the associates make less than that amount.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't posted here yet, incoming SA at a firm in MI.

This Honigman raise has been an illusive topic since like September. I don't know what to think. It wasn't mentioned in their SA recruitment. If it was happening, I think it should of been because it would have helped H be a LOT more competitive compared to national firms in MI. Just my two cents FWIW.

I have a friend who is a third year there that told me that first years at Honigman is 150k now

I have a friend who is a second year that's said that the firm operates on a "black box" so that no one really knows what anyone else is making. It's all conjecture and hearsay. My friend made 125 as a first year last year.

Further, if they were actually at 150 for all associates, wouldn't they want to advertise that fact? It doesn't really follow. The website itself lists 150 as the MEDIAN salary. Meaning that half of the associates make less than that amount.

I think the general consensus is that Honigman tries to play hide the ball on that fact. Don't get me wrong, they're a great firm but they do what all other firms out there do which is play cutesy with compensation. I think it's been established on here that $150k is the "starting" salary, but you're right, it does say Median start is 150. That does imply that half the people are paid below that. Then again, I think this is referencing the 2016 comp levels so it may not be updated until after the 2017 year, since they can't see where that all shakes down until after 2017.

Frankly I just don't ask people what they make. There are people in my office who came over from Honigman who had no issues with the firm/comp, and then there are people who came over or went to other firms in town who despise Honigman,it's all going to be relative.

[kellyfrost]

What is the cost of living like in Detroit? It seems like a $150k salary could go a very long way in that area, but I am not sure.

Any insight on COL?

[Anonymous User]

What is the cost of living like in Detroit? It seems like a $150k salary could go a very long way in that area, but I am not sure.

Any insight on COL?

As someone who is on the higher end of the comp scale I'd say CoL is great compared to other cities. If you want to live in the immediate downtown, you're going to spend anywhere from 1100-3k/month for an apartment. If you want to look at midtown/corktown/lafayette park, etc. you can probably be in the 6/700+ range. Then if you look further into the fringes and then the burbs it'll get cheaper. Downside to Detroit is car insurance (I paid 60/month in Florida and now pay 170/month in Detroit, and that's w/ it insured outside city limits. Also, there is no grocery store other than Whole Foods, so you need to go to Grosse Pointe to do the shopping - but I use HelloFresh/homechef for most of my meals so I tend to not do any shopping anyway.

All that aside, I love it. I've been living downtown for 7 months now and it's been great. Been able to save a lot of money and once I hit a certain threshold I plan on going all out on the loans.

[kellyfrost]

What is the cost of living like in Detroit? It seems like a $150k salary could go a very long way in that area, but I am not sure.

Any insight on COL?

As someone who is on the higher end of the comp scale I'd say CoL is great compared to other cities. If you want to live in the immediate downtown, you're going to spend anywhere from 1100-3k/month for an apartment. If you want to look at midtown/corktown/lafayette park, etc. you can probably be in the 6/700+ range. Then if you look further into the fringes and then the burbs it'll get cheaper. Downside to Detroit is car insurance (I paid 60/month in Florida and now pay 170/month in Detroit, and that's w/ it insured outside city limits. Also, there is no grocery store other than Whole Foods, so you need to go to Grosse Pointe to do the shopping - but I use hellofresh/homechef for most of my meals so I tend to not do any shopping anyway.

All that aside, I love it. I've been living downtown for 7 months now and it's been great. Been able to save a lot of money and once I hit a certain threshold I plan on going all out on the loans.

The insurance rates in Michigan, and specifically, Detroit are expensive. For the last several years, Michigan has been the highest average premium for car insurance than any other state in the country. Some of this is due to the fact that Michigan is a "no-fault" insurance state, which means that every driver is required by law to purchase "no fault" insurance and included in that are collision, comprehensive, and medical insurance (in other states drivers can buy liability only). Also contributing to this, is the fact that Michigan is one of the only states where it is legal to charge different rates and higher premiums for people who have bad credit, low-status jobs, and limited educations. Michigan also allows insurance companies to rate driver's on criteria other than driving record to determine insurance rates.

A study found that a basic car insurance policy with Allstate for a consumer who lived in Kalamazzo, MI was 241% less than the same driver who lives in Michigan.

Thanks for responding about the COL in Detroit. Here is another question, why are there no grocery stores in downtown? Don't a lot of people live in downtown? Are there liquor stores downtown?

[blueapple]

why are there no grocery stores in downtown?

Remnant of white flight and economic decline of the city. Standard food desert situation.

I think Meijer and Kroger have opened within city limits in the last couple of years but not downtown. I'm guessing more grocery stores will start to open closer to downtown in the next couple of years.

[Anonymous User]

why are there no grocery stores in downtown?

Remnant of white flight and economic decline of the city. Standard food desert situation.

I think Meijer and Kroger have opened within city limits in the last couple of years but not downtown. I'm guessing more grocery stores will start to open closer to downtown in the next couple of years.

There are a few slated to be opened. As I mentioned above (I'm the one who lives here now). We have a Whole Foods in mid-town, which is one of WF's new "low-cost" WF platforms. It's still expensive but I'll go there if I'm in a pinch and with the M-1 running I can take the train and it's no issue. Otherwise I take a zip-car to Grosse Pointe and hit up Kroger and Trader Joe's or if I'm planning ahead I'll head out to Costco.

Rumors are, and I have some inside insight, that an Urban Target and Meijer are in the works to be w/in walking distance of downtown. SO that's nice to see and likely will be downtown in the coming months, if not year. The glaring elephant in the room is Eastern Market. During the summer you can walk up there and get everything, fresh from the farm, and you're set. I actually go up there to get fresh fish and veggies when I am having people over or grilling out. It's a bit of a pain in the winter, so I'll zip-car/Uber up there, but it's not bad.

So is Detroit a food desert, in a sense yes b/c of the lack of supermarkets/grocery stores. But we also have the largest open-air market in the US right outside downtown, so you can still get fresh meat/fish/fruit/veggies every Friday/Saturday/Sunday.

[blueapple]

why are there no grocery stores in downtown?

Remnant of white flight and economic decline of the city. Standard food desert situation.

I think Meijer and Kroger have opened within city limits in the last couple of years but not downtown. I'm guessing more grocery stores will start to open closer to downtown in the next couple of years.

There are a few slated to be opened. As I mentioned above (I'm the one who lives here now). We have a Whole Foods in mid-town, which is one of WF's new "low-cost" WF platforms. It's still expensive but I'll go there if I'm in a pinch and with the M-1 running I can take the train and it's no issue. Otherwise I take a zip-car to Grosse Pointe and hit up Kroger and Trader Joe's or if I'm planning ahead I'll head out to Costco.

Rumors are, and I have some inside insight, that an Urban Target and Meijer are in the works to be w/in walking distance of downtown. SO that's nice to see and likely will be downtown in the coming months, if not year. The glaring elephant in the room is Eastern Market. During the summer you can walk up there and get everything, fresh from the farm, and you're set. I actually go up there to get fresh fish and veggies when I am having people over or grilling out. It's a bit of a pain in the winter, so I'll zip-car/Uber up there, but it's not bad.

So is Detroit a food desert, in a sense yes b/c of the lack of supermarkets/grocery stores. But we also have the largest open-air market in the US right outside downtown, so you can still get fresh meat/fish/fruit/veggies every Friday/Saturday/Sunday.

Having Eastern Market open on the weekends doesn't eliminate the food desert, unfortunately.

I'm impressed that you're able to live in Detroit without a car though - I've never been able to do that, myself.

[Sards]

What is the cost of living like in Detroit? It seems like a $150k salary could go a very long way in that area, but I am not sure.

Any insight on COL?

As someone who is on the higher end of the comp scale I'd say CoL is great compared to other cities. If you want to live in the immediate downtown, you're going to spend anywhere from 1100-3k/month for an apartment. If you want to look at midtown/corktown/lafayette park, etc. you can probably be in the 6/700+ range. Then if you look further into the fringes and then the burbs it'll get cheaper. Downside to Detroit is car insurance (I paid 60/month in Florida and now pay 170/month in Detroit, and that's w/ it insured outside city limits. Also, there is no grocery store other than Whole Foods, so you need to go to Grosse Pointe to do the shopping - but I use hellofresh/homechef for most of my meals so I tend to not do any shopping anyway.

All that aside, I love it. I've been living downtown for 7 months now and it's been great. Been able to save a lot of money and once I hit a certain threshold I plan on going all out on the loans.

I'm actually looking at a move downtown, any chance you can PM me and give me some insight?

[Anonymous User]

Haven't posted here yet, incoming SA at a firm in MI.

This Honigman raise has been an illusive topic since like September. I don't know what to think. It wasn't mentioned in their SA recruitment. If it was happening, I think it should of been because it would have helped H be a LOT more competitive compared to national firms in MI. Just my two cents FWIW.

I have a friend who is a third year there that told me that first years at Honigman is 150k now

I have a friend who is a second year that's said that the firm operates on a "black box" so that no one really knows what anyone else is making. It's all conjecture and hearsay. My friend made 125 as a first year last year.

Further, if they were actually at 150 for all associates, wouldn't they want to advertise that fact? It doesn't really follow. The website itself lists 150 as the MEDIAN salary. Meaning that half of the associates make less than that amount.

To be fair, it says its the median salary of people's first full calendar year, the prior year. So Cravaths number excluding bonus would be ~$170k rather than $180k due to the salary paid prior to the change.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't posted here yet, incoming SA at a firm in MI.

This Honigman raise has been an illusive topic since like September. I don't know what to think. It wasn't mentioned in their SA recruitment. If it was happening, I think it should of been because it would have helped H be a LOT more competitive compared to national firms in MI. Just my two cents FWIW.

I have a friend who is a third year there that told me that first years at Honigman is 150k now

I have a friend who is a second year that's said that the firm operates on a "black box" so that no one really knows what anyone else is making. It's all conjecture and hearsay. My friend made 125 as a first year last year.

Further, if they were actually at 150 for all associates, wouldn't they want to advertise that fact? It doesn't really follow. The website itself lists 150 as the MEDIAN salary. Meaning that half of the associates make less than that amount.

To be fair, it says its the median salary of people's first full calendar year, the prior year. So Cravaths number excluding bonus would be ~$170k rather than $180k due to the salary paid prior to the change.

From the website: "Effective January 1, 2017, Honigman’s starting associate salary increased to $150,000."

This is also reflected on the NALP entry and I can confirm that summers are making $2800/week.

[umichman]

Does anyone know the starting Detroit associate salaries for:

Honigman
Miller Canfield
Dickinson Wright
Dykema
Clark Hill
Pepper Hamilton
Bodman
Warner Norcross
Varnum
Kerr Russel

I understand salaries have changed with New York going up to 180k so the NALP data may not be accurate.

from what I remember it's around the following numbers:

Honigman - 105-120k (though I've heard they are at 125-130 now)
Miller Canfield (?) no response during mass mail so idk
Dickinson Wright - ~110k
Dykema - ~110-115k
Clark Hill - ~110k
Pepper Hamilton - probably 140 if they pay 160-180 in major markets
Bodman - 105k
Warner Norcross - 110k-120k
Varnum - 110k-120k
Kerr Russel (?) didn't talk to them during Mass mail/oci so no clue.

Also to add, these I know are where they are at:

Foley - 160k as of next month
Jones Day: 160k
Gunderson Dettmer (ann arbor) - 180k (no associates as of last year.)


Currently a first year at one of the above listed firms so I'm happy to answer questions you may have.

Reviving this one, does anybody know what like median midlevel salaries are like at these firms nowadays.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know the starting Detroit associate salaries for:

Honigman
Miller Canfield
Dickinson Wright
Dykema
Clark Hill
Pepper Hamilton
Bodman
Warner Norcross
Varnum
Kerr Russel

I understand salaries have changed with New York going up to 180k so the NALP data may not be accurate.

from what I remember it's around the following numbers:

Honigman - 105-120k (though I've heard they are at 125-130 now)
Miller Canfield (?) no response during mass mail so idk
Dickinson Wright - ~110k
Dykema - ~110-115k
Clark Hill - ~110k
Pepper Hamilton - probably 140 if they pay 160-180 in major markets
Bodman - 105k
Warner Norcross - 110k-120k
Varnum - 110k-120k
Kerr Russel (?) didn't talk to them during Mass mail/oci so no clue.

Also to add, these I know are where they are at:

Foley - 160k as of next month
Jones Day: 160k
Gunderson Dettmer (ann arbor) - 180k (no associates as of last year.)


Currently a first year at one of the above listed firms so I'm happy to answer questions you may have.

Reviving this one, does anybody know what like median midlevel salaries are like at these firms nowadays.

Interested in this as well.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know the starting Detroit associate salaries for:

Honigman
Miller Canfield
Dickinson Wright
Dykema
Clark Hill
Pepper Hamilton
Bodman
Warner Norcross
Varnum
Kerr Russel

I understand salaries have changed with New York going up to 180k so the NALP data may not be accurate.

from what I remember it's around the following numbers:

Honigman - 105-120k (though I've heard they are at 125-130 now)
Miller Canfield (?) no response during mass mail so idk
Dickinson Wright - ~110k
Dykema - ~110-115k
Clark Hill - ~110k
Pepper Hamilton - probably 140 if they pay 160-180 in major markets
Bodman - 105k
Warner Norcross - 110k-120k
Varnum - 110k-120k
Kerr Russel (?) didn't talk to them during Mass mail/oci so no clue.

Also to add, these I know are where they are at:

Foley - 160k as of next month
Jones Day: 160k
Gunderson Dettmer (ann arbor) - 180k (no associates as of last year.)


Currently a first year at one of the above listed firms so I'm happy to answer questions you may have.

Reviving this one, does anybody know what like median midlevel salaries are like at these firms nowadays.

Interested in this as well.

Anyone want to share mid-level data points for the smaller Detroit firms? Currently at one of the larger Detroit firms and considering making a lateral move, but would love some insight on how much of a pay cut I would need to stomach.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know the starting Detroit associate salaries for:

Honigman
Miller Canfield
Dickinson Wright
Dykema
Clark Hill
Pepper Hamilton
Bodman
Warner Norcross
Varnum
Kerr Russel

I understand salaries have changed with New York going up to 180k so the NALP data may not be accurate.

from what I remember it's around the following numbers:

Honigman - 105-120k (though I've heard they are at 125-130 now)
Miller Canfield (?) no response during mass mail so idk
Dickinson Wright - ~110k
Dykema - ~110-115k
Clark Hill - ~110k
Pepper Hamilton - probably 140 if they pay 160-180 in major markets
Bodman - 105k
Warner Norcross - 110k-120k
Varnum - 110k-120k
Kerr Russel (?) didn't talk to them during Mass mail/oci so no clue.

Also to add, these I know are where they are at:

Foley - 160k as of next month
Jones Day: 160k
Gunderson Dettmer (ann arbor) - 180k (no associates as of last year.)


Currently a first year at one of the above listed firms so I'm happy to answer questions you may have.

Reviving this one, does anybody know what like median midlevel salaries are like at these firms nowadays.

Interested in this as well.

Anyone want to share mid-level data points for the smaller Detroit firms? Currently at one of the larger Detroit firms and considering making a lateral move, but would love some insight on how much of a pay cut I would need to stomach.

Foley's full salary scale is posted on Above the Law. The salary scale is the same in all offices (including Detroit). Not sure if I'm allowed to post a link here, so I won't, but I can share some more detail.

There are two "tiers" of pay at Foley. In tier one (levels 1-3, which correspond to an associate's stub year - third year), associates are paid market. In tier two, associates can "skip" 1-2 levels, so their class year doesn't necessarily correspond to their level and pay. Tier two pay starts to compress, but when you skip levels, the compression isn't as bad. Bonuses are presumed to be at least 10% of your salary if you bill 2000 hour and at least 20% of your salary if you bill 2200 hours. For levels 1-3, bonuses can go as high as 30% of your salary; for higher levels, bonuses can go as high as 50% of your salary (though I understand this to be rare).

[umichman]

Any info on Clark Hill?