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Tiago Splitter

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:58 am

LaLiLuLeLo wrote: Not particularly helpful if you aren't willing to share how you did it, like other posters have. This is a thread for tips, not for just saying you coasted (props to you though).
Some of it is just nature dude. A lot of biglaw types have been strivers from day one. Don't be a striver is great advice but it's hard to fight nature. Either you know how to care just enough or you don't.

Also, some of it is luck, but again, out of your hands.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yes. I billed 1100-1200/year hours (a lot of it was bullshit, too, so probably actually worked quite a bit less) for 2.3 years at one firm (including stub), then received a warning during my review period in the first quarter of year 3 and immediately began to look for new opportunities. I still coasted at a very low daily hour while searching, but began setting up my exit as soon as I received a talk that I was done about 3 months later. I arranged for my lateral right as my 3 months of severance (which started 3 months after my warning) ended. Still received a pro-rated bonus for my 3rd year at my new firm.

I am now doing the same thing at my current job and plan to lateral once I receive another warning to a new geographic market as a way of explaining my most recent lateral move (both firms are in same market). I think I'll be able to get away with at least 1 more year before I receive a warning at my 2018 annual review, and then another 6 months to lateral after that... so basically planning to last another 2 years here after lasting 3 years at my first firm.

In my next geographic market, I plan to seek inhouse positions of any sort and maybe actually bust my butt a little to get the necessary credibility to make the move to a client perhaps. Hopefully I can skate by another year or so at my final firm before heading over to inhouse as a midlevel/senior.
If this is real, how do you even do this? Do people just not notice? How aggressively do you turn down work? And how awkward is it to be around people who might notice you're a slacker?

You have to work at a free market firm right?

I've got a friend at a big firm who has billed 1500-1600 every year he's been at the firm. From my talks with him, he just doesn't give a fuck. He knows he's not making partner so he saw no point in killing himself to be a burned out senior. He sits on assignments, doesn't seek workout, and pretty much ignores any request to work from anyone who isn't a partner. In the sense that if he gets approached about work from a senior, he's too busy working on matter X for a partner to help them out.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:03 pm

Just realized this was a post about coasting, not stress management. Had to delete what I'd previously written. I've never coasted, but TL;DR - I think the best way to position yourself to coast is to build a reputation for being a grinder for about a year or two. That way, when you say no or say you need a break, people will give you zero pushback.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by unlicensedpotato » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This is pretty good. I am a third year in corporate practice in NYC and have developed a really great rhythm and balance for myself, but it took about 18 months or so to get into and has taken further time to cultivate. I am not typically in the office for more than 9 hours a day, but am responsive via email and phone when needed to make up for the somewhat limited office time, and take full advantage of working remotely/from my phone. A few things:

1. Find a group that isn't huge (so that you aren't just a cog in the machine getting more and more work) but isn't too small that your whereabouts are always known to everyone. Older partners or partners that all don't stay super late can also help a lot. A practice area with less crazy expectations can help a great deal (m&a and capital markets being the two known as the craziest).
2. Do excellent work. Do it reliably and efficiently and as perfectly as possible. Be super responsive, polite, cordial, happy to everyone. Take things on gladly, but also be guarded and communicative if something is going to be too much. Be proactive. Guide things, push them along. Try and predict what is likely to happen on deals to minimize surprise. Time things well and get out ahead of things. Do this for 18+ months or so until you are known as reliable and dependable, and people will give you more autonomy.
3. Get a good phone so that you can be responsive to emails. Use apps like skype business that let you answer calls on your phone as if you are in the office (rings on both work phone and personal phone).
4. Try and stay under the radar as much as you can, but not appear to be hiding from things. Be seen when you know its good to be seen, and not seen when you know its not good to be not seen (i.e., if you're leaving at 5:30pm, make sure you leave when partners don't see you).
5. Have your secretary open your door and turn your light on in the morning early when they get in, and leave your light on in your office and a coat on the chair when you leave, so people don't know exactly where you are.
6. Work remotely whenever possible, including weeknights after 7pm and weekends. I have only come into the office one weekend day in 2.5 years. If things are slower, don't advertise or ask for permission to work remotely, just do it when you know no one is going to be looking for you anyway. If no one is looking for you, no one knows where you are/is wondering where you are, so there's no need to draw attention to your absence.
7. Use all 4 weeks of vacation and all holidays/floating holidays. Use personal days and a sick day here and there, but mostly, if you aren't coming in, work remotely on days where you can confidently say that nothing too much is going on.
8. Get all weekend work done as early as possible, and sit on things strategically. For instance, if I get a redraft of a document back on a Friday afternoon and the partner wants it on Monday, I will work on it Friday night til 7 or so, and then wake up early saturday morning (like 6am or so) to get it done. But I won't send it back until Sunday night or Monday morning, so as to preserve the rest of the weekend (not to mention that the partner thinks you were working all weekend on it).
9. Work feverishly during the time you are in the office and set firm deadlines to get things done. If someone needs a memo or a report, do the best workable job you can and get it out by the deadline, but don't put extra time into it that is only going to make marginal improvement.
10. Go out of your way for colleagues on coverages and helping in other ways. Foster that sort of selfless collegiality, and then when you need a solid, people will help without batting an eyelash.

I can mention others, but this has been my approach, and it is working excellently so far. Happy to answer more questions here or via PM.
This is really good advice.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Johann » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:27 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote: Not particularly helpful if you aren't willing to share how you did it, like other posters have. This is a thread for tips, not for just saying you coasted (props to you though).
Some of it is just nature dude. A lot of biglaw types have been strivers from day one. Don't be a striver is great advice but it's hard to fight nature. Either you know how to care just enough or you don't.

Also, some of it is luck, but again, out of your hands.
this is my experience as well. nobody at my firm pushes anyone or hands out work if you say you are too busy. however, most of the time there is always someone willing to step up for a 300 hour month because they want to hit 2300, 2400, or 2500 billables in a year. they think they get some medal of honor award for being in the office friday night at 1:30 am or they just want to beat their peers because they are super ocmpetitive.

in my same small group of ~10 associates 1 person billed 2300 and never took more than 3 days off consecutively. they worked on xmas eve and came into the office 20-30 saturdays throughout the year. they never worked from home or slept in and recharged. another person took 5 weeks of vacation traveling to hawaii multiple times, asia 1 time, europe once, and lots of weekend trips to miami etc. they worked from home some. they billed lots of hours in the air. total, they billed 2005 hours.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Doing "excellent" work "efficiently" and "perfectly" doesn't sound coasting to me. And obviously it is easier said than done. Not to discredit that post but just a thought. Props to the poster above who billed under 1500 and survived for 2 years. That is awesome

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Doing "excellent" work "efficiently" and "perfectly" doesn't sound coasting to me. And obviously it is easier said than done. Not to discredit that post but just a thought. Props to the poster above who billed under 1500 and survived for 2 years. That is awesome
The problem is that if you do mediocre work, it's unlikely you'll last more than a year being a low biller.

A lot of the advice on this thread is very good, so I'll just add my experience. I lasted about 4.5 years in litigation at a big firm with a reputation for sweatshopiness, and left well liked and of my own volition. I always met the minimum hours requirements, but never exceeded them by more than a handful of hours. There were a few keys to accomplishing this.

First, I turned down work a lot. This is something many people struggle with. They think that saying no to a crappy project--for example a partner coming to you on a Friday afternoon with a new assignment--will put you on some sort of shitlist. But so long as you generally do solid work, meet deadlines, and make hours minimums, you should have banked enough goodwill and respect to say no. And billing above minimums is generally a losing idea unless you are gunning for partner. Sure, you can make some extra money at bonus time, but the dollars per hour is too low to make it worthwhile. And for me, personally, when my hours approached or exceeded 200 a month I became much unhappier with my job.

Second, and this is closely related to my first point, learn to recognize bad projects. If you are starting out at a firm, take a more senior associate to lunch or happy hour early on and ask about the bad partners in the office and any regular clients that suck to work for. Then avoid those people and cases as if your job depends on it--because it might. I know a number of people that were smarter and harder working that I was, but they didn't last at the firm because they got on bad cases with bad people.

Third, I was as efficient as possible while in the office and billed the vast majority of my hours during normal business hours. Again, many associates will waste time during the day browsing the internet, having long talks with colleagues, regular lunches out, etc. The sad truth of biglaw is: every hour you don't bill during the day is an hour you need to make up at night or on the weekend. Because I was efficient, I rarely worked nights and weekends (excluding trials and legit emergencies).

Fourth, I didn't concern myself with bogus deadlines. Someone else made this point earlier, and it's completely true. If something is due to a client or there's a court deadline, then absolutely meet it. But a lot of the times there are deadlines that are bullshit. Someone will ask to see a draft of a motion or memo 2 weeks before the real deadline, then sit on it for days or weeks. All you need to do is send an email a day or two ahead of time and ask for an extension. In these situations you don't take a hit by taking longer to turn it in, because it doesn't matter. And in taking longer you have a continuing excuse to turn down other work--see first point, above.

Fifth, try not to be the first person to respond to emails asking for volunteers. If you get an email asking for someone to step up to do something, and you don't want to do it, don't respond right away. Nine times out of ten, someone else will jump in any volunteer because biglaw is full of overachievers. And this saves you from having to say no or make up an excuse.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by sublime » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doing "excellent" work "efficiently" and "perfectly" doesn't sound coasting to me. And obviously it is easier said than done. Not to discredit that post but just a thought. Props to the poster above who billed under 1500 and survived for 2 years. That is awesome
The problem is that if you do mediocre work, it's unlikely you'll last more than a year being a low biller.

A lot of the advice on this thread is very good, so I'll just add my experience. I lasted about 4.5 years in litigation at a big firm with a reputation for sweatshopiness, and left well liked and of my own volition. I always met the minimum hours requirements, but never exceeded them by more than a handful of hours. There were a few keys to accomplishing this.

First, I turned down work a lot. This is something many people struggle with. They think that saying no to a crappy project--for example a partner coming to you on a Friday afternoon with a new assignment--will put you on some sort of shitlist. But so long as you generally do solid work, meet deadlines, and make hours minimums, you should have banked enough goodwill and respect to say no. And billing above minimums is generally a losing idea unless you are gunning for partner. Sure, you can make some extra money at bonus time, but the dollars per hour is too low to make it worthwhile. And for me, personally, when my hours approached or exceeded 200 a month I became much unhappier with my job.

Second, and this is closely related to my first point, learn to recognize bad projects. If you are starting out at a firm, take a more senior associate to lunch or happy hour early on and ask about the bad partners in the office and any regular clients that suck to work for. Then avoid those people and cases as if your job depends on it--because it might. I know a number of people that were smarter and harder working that I was, but they didn't last at the firm because they got on bad cases with bad people.

Third, I was as efficient as possible while in the office and billed the vast majority of my hours during normal business hours. Again, many associates will waste time during the day browsing the internet, having long talks with colleagues, regular lunches out, etc. The sad truth of biglaw is: every hour you don't bill during the day is an hour you need to make up at night or on the weekend. Because I was efficient, I rarely worked nights and weekends (excluding trials and legit emergencies).

Fourth, I didn't concern myself with bogus deadlines. Someone else made this point earlier, and it's completely true. If something is due to a client or there's a court deadline, then absolutely meet it. But a lot of the times there are deadlines that are bullshit. Someone will ask to see a draft of a motion or memo 2 weeks before the real deadline, then sit on it for days or weeks. All you need to do is send an email a day or two ahead of time and ask for an extension. In these situations you don't take a hit by taking longer to turn it in, because it doesn't matter. And in taking longer you have a continuing excuse to turn down other work--see first point, above.

Fifth, try not to be the first person to respond to emails asking for volunteers. If you get an email asking for someone to step up to do something, and you don't want to do it, don't respond right away. Nine times out of ten, someone else will jump in any volunteer because biglaw is full of overachievers. And this saves you from having to say no or make up an excuse.
Do you have any tips for billing more efficiently. I feel like I lose a ton of hours everyday.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:14 pm

sublime wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doing "excellent" work "efficiently" and "perfectly" doesn't sound coasting to me. And obviously it is easier said than done. Not to discredit that post but just a thought. Props to the poster above who billed under 1500 and survived for 2 years. That is awesome
The problem is that if you do mediocre work, it's unlikely you'll last more than a year being a low biller.

A lot of the advice on this thread is very good, so I'll just add my experience. I lasted about 4.5 years in litigation at a big firm with a reputation for sweatshopiness, and left well liked and of my own volition. I always met the minimum hours requirements, but never exceeded them by more than a handful of hours. There were a few keys to accomplishing this.

First, I turned down work a lot. This is something many people struggle with. They think that saying no to a crappy project--for example a partner coming to you on a Friday afternoon with a new assignment--will put you on some sort of shitlist. But so long as you generally do solid work, meet deadlines, and make hours minimums, you should have banked enough goodwill and respect to say no. And billing above minimums is generally a losing idea unless you are gunning for partner. Sure, you can make some extra money at bonus time, but the dollars per hour is too low to make it worthwhile. And for me, personally, when my hours approached or exceeded 200 a month I became much unhappier with my job.

Second, and this is closely related to my first point, learn to recognize bad projects. If you are starting out at a firm, take a more senior associate to lunch or happy hour early on and ask about the bad partners in the office and any regular clients that suck to work for. Then avoid those people and cases as if your job depends on it--because it might. I know a number of people that were smarter and harder working that I was, but they didn't last at the firm because they got on bad cases with bad people.

Third, I was as efficient as possible while in the office and billed the vast majority of my hours during normal business hours. Again, many associates will waste time during the day browsing the internet, having long talks with colleagues, regular lunches out, etc. The sad truth of biglaw is: every hour you don't bill during the day is an hour you need to make up at night or on the weekend. Because I was efficient, I rarely worked nights and weekends (excluding trials and legit emergencies).

Fourth, I didn't concern myself with bogus deadlines. Someone else made this point earlier, and it's completely true. If something is due to a client or there's a court deadline, then absolutely meet it. But a lot of the times there are deadlines that are bullshit. Someone will ask to see a draft of a motion or memo 2 weeks before the real deadline, then sit on it for days or weeks. All you need to do is send an email a day or two ahead of time and ask for an extension. In these situations you don't take a hit by taking longer to turn it in, because it doesn't matter. And in taking longer you have a continuing excuse to turn down other work--see first point, above.

Fifth, try not to be the first person to respond to emails asking for volunteers. If you get an email asking for someone to step up to do something, and you don't want to do it, don't respond right away. Nine times out of ten, someone else will jump in any volunteer because biglaw is full of overachievers. And this saves you from having to say no or make up an excuse.
Do you have any tips for billing more efficiently. I feel like I lose a ton of hours everyday.
It really depends on what works for you. For me, I spent a few minutes at the start of the day figuring what I had to do each day, and what was most important or time sensitive. Then I sat down and started working through that list. That discouraged me from wasting time between tasks. I also brought lunch from home and ate at my desk while working most days. Some people hate this, but for me it was worth it.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by sublime » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:31 pm

Thanks. And yea, I don't mind eating at my desk but often find myself fucking around online rather than working.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by BaiAilian2013 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:06 pm

sublime wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doing "excellent" work "efficiently" and "perfectly" doesn't sound coasting to me. And obviously it is easier said than done. Not to discredit that post but just a thought. Props to the poster above who billed under 1500 and survived for 2 years. That is awesome
The problem is that if you do mediocre work, it's unlikely you'll last more than a year being a low biller.

A lot of the advice on this thread is very good, so I'll just add my experience. I lasted about 4.5 years in litigation at a big firm with a reputation for sweatshopiness, and left well liked and of my own volition. I always met the minimum hours requirements, but never exceeded them by more than a handful of hours. There were a few keys to accomplishing this.

First, I turned down work a lot. This is something many people struggle with. They think that saying no to a crappy project--for example a partner coming to you on a Friday afternoon with a new assignment--will put you on some sort of shitlist. But so long as you generally do solid work, meet deadlines, and make hours minimums, you should have banked enough goodwill and respect to say no. And billing above minimums is generally a losing idea unless you are gunning for partner. Sure, you can make some extra money at bonus time, but the dollars per hour is too low to make it worthwhile. And for me, personally, when my hours approached or exceeded 200 a month I became much unhappier with my job.

Second, and this is closely related to my first point, learn to recognize bad projects. If you are starting out at a firm, take a more senior associate to lunch or happy hour early on and ask about the bad partners in the office and any regular clients that suck to work for. Then avoid those people and cases as if your job depends on it--because it might. I know a number of people that were smarter and harder working that I was, but they didn't last at the firm because they got on bad cases with bad people.

Third, I was as efficient as possible while in the office and billed the vast majority of my hours during normal business hours. Again, many associates will waste time during the day browsing the internet, having long talks with colleagues, regular lunches out, etc. The sad truth of biglaw is: every hour you don't bill during the day is an hour you need to make up at night or on the weekend. Because I was efficient, I rarely worked nights and weekends (excluding trials and legit emergencies).

Fourth, I didn't concern myself with bogus deadlines. Someone else made this point earlier, and it's completely true. If something is due to a client or there's a court deadline, then absolutely meet it. But a lot of the times there are deadlines that are bullshit. Someone will ask to see a draft of a motion or memo 2 weeks before the real deadline, then sit on it for days or weeks. All you need to do is send an email a day or two ahead of time and ask for an extension. In these situations you don't take a hit by taking longer to turn it in, because it doesn't matter. And in taking longer you have a continuing excuse to turn down other work--see first point, above.

Fifth, try not to be the first person to respond to emails asking for volunteers. If you get an email asking for someone to step up to do something, and you don't want to do it, don't respond right away. Nine times out of ten, someone else will jump in any volunteer because biglaw is full of overachievers. And this saves you from having to say no or make up an excuse.
Do you have any tips for billing more efficiently. I feel like I lose a ton of hours everyday.
Not anon, but I use Drunk Locker to block Facebook and my browser on my phone during work hours. Sounds pathetic, but you know what, it works. I'm still not where I want to be on efficiency, but it helps a lot. Browser on work computer is still open to me, but there's a limit to what I'll do on there.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by sublime » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:11 pm

Thanks. I was using a similar program during bar study and using something like that during work is probably a good idea.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by jd20132013 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:12 pm

Sublime, mind posting the name of your program? Looks like drunk locker isn't on iPhone (?)

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by sublime » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:19 pm

jd20132013 wrote:Sublime, mind posting the name of your program? Looks like drunk locker isn't on iPhone (?)
I used self control app over the summer but that was on my computer not my phone. I haven't found anything yet for iPhone but surely it must exist.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Bluem_11 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:23 am

Is biglaw stressful because it is stressful, or is it stressful because the associates make it stressful for themselves?

This feels like a chicken or the egg kinda argument.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:29 am

sublime wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:Sublime, mind posting the name of your program? Looks like drunk locker isn't on iPhone (?)
I used self control app over the summer but that was on my computer not my phone. I haven't found anything yet for iPhone but surely it must exist.
There's one called Freedom that I've used.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:17 am

Bluem_11 wrote:Is biglaw stressful because it is stressful, or is it stressful because the associates make it stressful for themselves?

This feels like a chicken or the egg kinda argument.
In the nyc corporate world at least, it's stressful because it's stressful. You're probably not going to believe anyone, but maybe you'll see for yourself soon enough. Maybe there are some special groups in each firm that is low-key and not stressful (tax? enviro?) but that is the exception to the rule.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:48 pm

If you are a decent worker and your low hours are due to a lack of billable work vs people not wanting to give you work, then I don't think you have much to worry about (all bets are off if the economy tanks). At my firm I was worried about billable and 2 associate told me that they have been there for 2 years each and were billing only 1600-1700 hrs (minimums are 1950) and they never received the talk. In fact, one tried to leave and they actually asked him to stay.

At my previous firm, it was totally different. Not meeting hours were considered a HUGE issue and the leash was much shorter. People were regularly asked to leave for not meeting hours after 1 calendar year.

In terms of one of the above posters billing only 1100-1200 hours a year, that is a really bad idea because 50% of the time, jobs will ask for references. I'd like to think I am a pretty nice guy, I gave a SA that didn't get an offer a reference, but if you are billing 1100-1200 and look like you don't give a fuck, I would never give you a reference. I think most partners would think the same way....

I think a way to coast without looking like you are coasting is to bill 1500-1700 and then overbill on your non-billable work. Load up on non-billable hours (i.e. firm marketing, presentations and writing articles). This way it is a win-win for you. When you lateral or go in-house, you look like an expert in whatever field of law you are interested in by having like 10 publications and no one will hate you when you leave your firm.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doing "excellent" work "efficiently" and "perfectly" doesn't sound coasting to me. And obviously it is easier said than done. Not to discredit that post but just a thought. Props to the poster above who billed under 1500 and survived for 2 years. That is awesome
The problem is that if you do mediocre work, it's unlikely you'll last more than a year being a low biller.

A lot of the advice on this thread is very good, so I'll just add my experience. I lasted about 4.5 years in litigation at a big firm with a reputation for sweatshopiness, and left well liked and of my own volition. I always met the minimum hours requirements, but never exceeded them by more than a handful of hours. There were a few keys to accomplishing this.

First, I turned down work a lot. This is something many people struggle with. They think that saying no to a crappy project--for example a partner coming to you on a Friday afternoon with a new assignment--will put you on some sort of shitlist. But so long as you generally do solid work, meet deadlines, and make hours minimums, you should have banked enough goodwill and respect to say no. And billing above minimums is generally a losing idea unless you are gunning for partner. Sure, you can make some extra money at bonus time, but the dollars per hour is too low to make it worthwhile. And for me, personally, when my hours approached or exceeded 200 a month I became much unhappier with my job.

Second, and this is closely related to my first point, learn to recognize bad projects. If you are starting out at a firm, take a more senior associate to lunch or happy hour early on and ask about the bad partners in the office and any regular clients that suck to work for. Then avoid those people and cases as if your job depends on it--because it might. I know a number of people that were smarter and harder working that I was, but they didn't last at the firm because they got on bad cases with bad people.

Third, I was as efficient as possible while in the office and billed the vast majority of my hours during normal business hours. Again, many associates will waste time during the day browsing the internet, having long talks with colleagues, regular lunches out, etc. The sad truth of biglaw is: every hour you don't bill during the day is an hour you need to make up at night or on the weekend. Because I was efficient, I rarely worked nights and weekends (excluding trials and legit emergencies).

Fourth, I didn't concern myself with bogus deadlines. Someone else made this point earlier, and it's completely true. If something is due to a client or there's a court deadline, then absolutely meet it. But a lot of the times there are deadlines that are bullshit. Someone will ask to see a draft of a motion or memo 2 weeks before the real deadline, then sit on it for days or weeks. All you need to do is send an email a day or two ahead of time and ask for an extension. In these situations you don't take a hit by taking longer to turn it in, because it doesn't matter. And in taking longer you have a continuing excuse to turn down other work--see first point, above.

Fifth, try not to be the first person to respond to emails asking for volunteers. If you get an email asking for someone to step up to do something, and you don't want to do it, don't respond right away. Nine times out of ten, someone else will jump in any volunteer because biglaw is full of overachievers. And this saves you from having to say no or make up an excuse.
This is all great advice (also a midlevel lit associate). I'd just add that you should wait a couple months before identifying seniors to invite to lunch and have a real talk about the group. Some senior associates will have drunk the kool aid and give you a diplomatic answer, others will do so because there is nothing in it for them to be talking about partners to juniors. Those are usually the seniors who are most terrible to work for.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:52 am

OP here, this is all great advice, but basically, if you want anything resembling a normal job, its better to GTFO is the consensus i'm drawing (or just get really lucky). Honestly, I came back from vacation last week and immediately got staffed on a matter that required me staying up till 2 am three days in a row. I think i'm just not cut out for this crap.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here, this is all great advice, but basically, if you want anything resembling a normal job, its better to GTFO is the consensus i'm drawing (or just get really lucky). Honestly, I came back from vacation last week and immediately got staffed on a matter that required me staying up till 2 am three days in a row. I think i'm just not cut out for this crap.
Yes. Unless you are in a smaller specialty group, which you are not, you can only manage the hours and the stress. Maybe you have one insane 300 hour month a year instead of three. You are in the office only a couple weekends, not a dozen. You avoid working for exceptionally shitty partners and dealing with the stress of bad reviews. But it's very hard to "coast" in the sense that most people understand it.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:08 pm

NY M&A V-20 midlevel here.

Without firm jumping, or landing at a white shoe firm that benches you instead of firing you (with 1-6 months notice) it would be tough to coast for over 3 months in M&A. We always have more work then bodies, emails and calls are at all hours and seniors/midlevels 100% discuss who isn't pulling their weight. Plus, if you hours went under 30 for a week or 160 for the month, your going to get staffed on a new deal asap. Get kicked-off a few of those deals for slacking and your out the door by the next review cycle.

I know its a grass-is-always-greener thing, but I feel you can coast/chill/obfuscate more in lit.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NY M&A V-20 midlevel here.

Without firm jumping, or landing at a white shoe firm that benches you instead of firing you (with 1-6 months notice) it would be tough to coast for over 3 months in M&A. We always have more work then bodies, emails and calls are at all hours and seniors/midlevels 100% discuss who isn't pulling their weight. Plus, if you hours went under 30 for a week or 160 for the month, your going to get staffed on a new deal asap. Get kicked-off a few of those deals for slacking and your out the door by the next review cycle.

I know its a grass-is-always-greener thing, but I feel you can coast/chill/obfuscate more in lit.
Pretty much the same in Lev Fin. At my old firm (V-10), you actually could get away with a few 120-140 hour months as a junior, but my new firm is smaller and everyone pretty much billed 2100+ last year in my group. The sense I get is just to start taking calls from recruiters and looking online ASAP for in-house roles. It kind of sucks because you learn a lot at a firm and I like the people, but the nature of the work is just too much to handle. Been doing this for 2 years and you never get used to it.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Midlevel lit associate here, and while there are definitely fewer opportunities to pull all nighters over a weekend if you work efficiently, in some respects it is harder to coast because matters take forever to resolve and your schedule is highly dependent on opposing counsel or the court doing stuff at random times. I regularly have things I worked on pop up again and require major work a year or more after I thought the matter was dead and buried. By the time you are more senior there are dozens of these little ticking time bombs waiting to lay 50 hours of work on you a month. Even internally, you might get staffed on a matter and then have nothing to do for four months and then have it become a major case. Usually the only time you can justify getting pulled off stuff is trial. (Partners will always push back because they dont want to have to risk the client getting mad that they are onboarding new associates.)

If the firm is busy, it's hard to build up consistent hours as well as leave a gap for things to come back, leading to getting staffed on something and having two other things blow up a week later.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by 1styearlateral » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Midlevel lit associate here, and while there are definitely fewer opportunities to pull all nighters over a weekend if you work efficiently, in some respects it is harder to coast because matters take forever to resolve and your schedule is highly dependent on opposing counsel or the court doing stuff at random times. I regularly have things I worked on pop up again and require major work a year or more after I thought the matter was dead and buried. By the time you are more senior there are dozens of these little ticking time bombs waiting to lay 50 hours of work on you a month. Even internally, you might get staffed on a matter and then have nothing to do for four months and then have it become a major case. Usually the only time you can justify getting pulled off stuff is trial. (Partners will always push back because they dont want to have to risk the client getting mad that they are onboarding new associates.)

If the firm is busy, it's hard to build up consistent hours as well as leave a gap for things to come back, leading to getting staffed on something and having two other things blow up a week later.
I agree with this, but at least in lit you can see where your landmines lay.

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