Hiring Freezes??

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Anonymous User
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Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:17 am

Are all entry-level or lateral attorney positions in fed government placed on hold come January 2017? What about those who already received offers to start next year?

May God help us.

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zot1
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby zot1 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

That's what Trump said he would do. With a GOP congress, I don't see why this wouldn't be the case.

I'm also worried about reductions in force. RIFs are mostly based on tenure, so new attorneys taken jobs right now are seriously taking a huge gamble.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if offers are withdrawn in the spring since offers will be tentative and can be revoked.

I know some many think I'm sounding negative, but you guys, this is bad.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:49 pm

How does this affect persons currently in the DOJ Honors Program serving a 2-year term?

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zot1
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby zot1 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How does this affect persons currently in the DOJ Honors Program serving a 2-year term?


If the hope is that you will be kept on after the two year term, this could change. Obviously this is all speculative at this point, but if you're appointment won't become permanent before the end of the year, I would be sincerely worried. I'm permanent and I'm hella worried.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:21 pm

Thoughts on whether SLIP offers conditional on passing a background check (that doesn't happen for a bit) are in danger of being reneged? Obviously long-term prospects of hiring are lower, but I'm thinking the lowly interns will be fine....right?

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:18 pm

Very curious about this topic, as I have received and accepted an offer (and have turned down interview requests due to my acceptance). Historically, has the federal government reneged during hiring freezes?

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zot1
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby zot1 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Very curious about this topic, as I have received and accepted an offer (and have turned down interview requests due to my acceptance). Historically, has the federal government reneged during hiring freezes?


Here's the problem: no one can say with certainty what is going to happen. Trump has definitely said one of his first moves in office will be a hiring freeze. You can definitely look this up.

If your offer is not final, which it likely isn't, HR can withdraw your offer. Even if it's final, they could still do it if there's an executive order to that effect. Since you're just an applicant, your ability to challenge an offer withdrawn are slim.

It's not that the person who hired you wants to renege by the way, it's just that if there is a hiring freeze, they will not have a choice in the matter.

As a matter of example, I had been given a summer offer at an agency (very different than postgrad, of course) when the furloughs/hiring freeze happened in 2013. The agency said they wouldn't be able to pay me anymore, but I could volunteer for the summer. Which I did, for part of the summer. I also got a paid gig that covered my entire summer. But anyway, you can't really volunteer as an attorney for the government so this is slightly different.

Is there a chance that everything will turn out okay? Yes, definitely.

But is there also a chance your job is at risk given recent GOP rhetoric and Trump's stated policy of shrinking the federal workforce? You bet.

My sole purpose is to make you all aware of the risk so you can assess properly. I'm not trying to make a decision for you. So if you're thinking, well, I'll just take this offer and ride it out, then that's cool.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:35 pm

FWIW, I was hired during a hiring freeze (the whole honors thing took place during a freeze my cycle). That's why I think the honors program hires are already baked into the system for next year, and I don't think rescinding those offers is anyone's priority. I do think that subsequent reductions in force would be a bigger concern.

(I also think Trump has said a LOT of things and that we don't really have any idea which of them are actually going to happen but obviously that's not reassuring.)

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zot1
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby zot1 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I was hired during a hiring freeze (the whole honors thing took place during a freeze my cycle). That's why I think the honors program hires are already baked into the system for next year, and I don't think rescinding those offers is anyone's priority. I do think that subsequent reductions in force would be a bigger concern.

(I also think Trump has said a LOT of things and that we don't really have any idea which of them are actually going to happen but obviously that's not reassuring.)


I agree. I want to be wrong about all of this. But that's what's so problematic, we can't predict anything.

newlawgrad
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby newlawgrad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:10 pm

Could be wrong but fairly certain "public safety" was exempt from his purported freeze, which would ostensibly include DOJ and others. Further, if he's going to have border agents in droves rounding up illegal aliens, someone has to prosecute them, at least in those states. The real issue for someone who wants to apply post-clerkship (me) is the complete toss up of who will be manning US-A positions, who they will want to hire, etc.

srtabrawer
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby srtabrawer » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:41 pm

Well...looks like I'm staying in the private sector for life

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I was hired during a hiring freeze (the whole honors thing took place during a freeze my cycle). That's why I think the honors program hires are already baked into the system for next year, and I don't think rescinding those offers is anyone's priority. I do think that subsequent reductions in force would be a bigger concern.

(I also think Trump has said a LOT of things and that we don't really have any idea which of them are actually going to happen but obviously that's not reassuring.)


Was your offer tentative and then you received the permanent offer later?

I accepted a "tentative offer" a few days ago from an independent agency, and now I'm worried Trump winning could affect whether it becomes permanent in time (especially since I don't even start until next August 2017). I don't even know who to ask/where to go to figure out what to do.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:11 pm

In my opinion, persons who have term-appointments probably need not worry about losing that term-appointment. However, obtaining federal employment after the appointment could provide problematic. Nevertheless, Trump has stated that he will hire "10,000 new federal ICE employees" and, in the same vein, has talked about wanting to improve the VA and amp-up border enforcement, interior enforcement and removal proceedings - so, it seems likely federal gov't VA and immigration may receive some sort of exemption for new hires.

I think it really all comes down to how Trump defines "federal employment" (does this include temporary/term-appointments), whether lateraling between agencies (or only within agencies) is permitted, and whether Trump does this by executive order or regulation/law.

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Pomeranian
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Pomeranian » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:37 pm

Well, Trump has said he wanted to cut federal "bloat," which I assume there is a lot of after 8 years of Obama...

Cellar-door
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Cellar-door » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:50 pm

Nobody knows yet. Campaign promises are rarely kept (or even intended to be kept) so we'll see how it goes.

JGMotorsport
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby JGMotorsport » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:51 pm

I wouldn't get too worked up just yet.

I'm sure there's a difference between agencies too since the freeze is vague.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:57 pm

Cellar-door wrote:Nobody knows yet. Campaign promises are rarely kept (or even intended to be kept) so we'll see how it goes.

I do think this is the mantra that needs to be repeated with trump - not just in this but in all contexts. I don't think anyone really knows what he's really gonna do.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:37 pm

Does anyone know if this can/will affect judicial clerkship offers that have already been extended and accepted? I can't imagine we're going to leave every federal judge in the country without a clerk for the foreseeable future...

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby RaceJudicata » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:34 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Cellar-door wrote:Nobody knows yet. Campaign promises are rarely kept (or even intended to be kept) so we'll see how it goes.

I do think this is the mantra that needs to be repeated with trump - not just in this but in all contexts. I don't think anyone really knows what he's really gonna do.


This. If taken seriously, trump really shouldn't even be able to hire a cabinet. A freeze is a freeze.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:42 pm

Srsly don't worry. a) it's trump and b) if you already have an offer from big gov you'll land your feet somewhere else

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I was hired during a hiring freeze (the whole honors thing took place during a freeze my cycle). That's why I think the honors program hires are already baked into the system for next year, and I don't think rescinding those offers is anyone's priority. I do think that subsequent reductions in force would be a bigger concern.

(I also think Trump has said a LOT of things and that we don't really have any idea which of them are actually going to happen but obviously that's not reassuring.)


Was your offer tentative and then you received the permanent offer later?

I accepted a "tentative offer" a few days ago from an independent agency, and now I'm worried Trump winning could affect whether it becomes permanent in time (especially since I don't even start until next August 2017). I don't even know who to ask/where to go to figure out what to do.

I just got one offer (they called me in November, I accepted, they sent me a letter in December, I started the following September). I think when I've heard of "tentative" offers before they turned into formal offers soon after. But if you're concerned about this I would just call the person who made you the offer. It's a perfectly reasonable question, to ask whether the election changes the timing of the final offer or something along those lines.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:28 am

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:Srsly don't worry. a) it's trump and b) if you already have an offer from big gov you'll land your feet somewhere else



The problem here is that many of us will effectively be turning down other offers for fed employment. To the extent we're able to, we have to make sure we won't be screwed.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:Srsly don't worry. a) it's trump and b) if you already have an offer from big gov you'll land your feet somewhere else



The problem here is that many of us will effectively be turning down other offers for fed employment. To the extent we're able to, we have to make sure we won't be screwed.


Yeah, exactly. Perhaps, if someone discusses this with an agency (whether a hiring freeze could affect offers already extended), they could post the agency's response?

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:Srsly don't worry. a) it's trump and b) if you already have an offer from big gov you'll land your feet somewhere else



The problem here is that many of us will effectively be turning down other offers for fed employment. To the extent we're able to, we have to make sure we won't be screwed.


Yeah, exactly. Perhaps, if someone discusses this with an agency (whether a hiring freeze could affect offers already extended), they could post the agency's response?


I spoke to HUD about this (interviewing soon) and they basically said "bring it up in the interview." However, folks in my career office have said that they moved their entire hiring schedule up to avoid potential issues with the freeze. That's somewhat encouraging.

No word on other agencies I applied to, but I'm planning to ask everyone. I strongly encourage people to share information here. This is a big deal for a LOT of people.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:Srsly don't worry. a) it's trump and b) if you already have an offer from big gov you'll land your feet somewhere else



The problem here is that many of us will effectively be turning down other offers for fed employment. To the extent we're able to, we have to make sure we won't be screwed.


Yeah, exactly. Perhaps, if someone discusses this with an agency (whether a hiring freeze could affect offers already extended), they could post the agency's response?


I spoke to HUD about this (interviewing soon) and they basically said "bring it up in the interview." However, folks in my career office have said that they moved their entire hiring schedule up to avoid potential issues with the freeze. That's somewhat encouraging.

No word on other agencies I applied to, but I'm planning to ask everyone. I strongly encourage people to share information here. This is a big deal for a LOT of people.


Note on this to everyone: there is some bad precedent for this.

"Mr. Reagan made the freeze retroactive to Nov. 5, although he did not take office until Jan. 20. That forced Federal personnel administrators to withdraw a number of job offers that had been extended and accepted in the final two and a half months of the Carter Administration. However, new workers on the job by Jan. 20 were excepted."

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/10/us/re ... ccess.html




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