Kirkland (Houston) Associate - Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

KE (non-Houston) associate here, but I work constantly with the Houston team, so I have a pretty decent relationship with the group.

Good group of people. Culture specific -- need to have a thick skin, and an ambitious but easy-going mentality. You will work hard.

Surprised to hear anything bad about the partners. I work with them a lot and while they're not lovey-dovey they don't seem like assholes.

Downsides are that a) the office is crazy busy and b) it's a small team with a lot of contact with young, ambitious rainmaker superstar partners. Kind of a double-edged sword. If you want to put in your 2-3 years then lateral or go in house, probably not the office for you. If you fuck something up, because it's a tight-nit group, word will get around. You can't hide somewhere in the cracks doing menial work for 40 hours a week, people will know who you are and will staff you on matters and expect you to put serious work in.

And if you want to stick around for longer and try to make partner, also probably not the office for you. I think that the reason to join KE is primarily if you want to do this for 6-7 years and then peace out. You will get higher bonuses but partnership chances will probably be low (on top of the 10 year track). I actually think NSP is a good thing, gives more opportunity to develop business, but a 10 year track sucks.

Do you work at K&E or are you just riffing based on whispers on TLS?

Houston office is probably one of the better offices to try and make partner at. More contact with young partners with influence, more client contact, more opportunities to build your own brand. Yeah, you'll grind more, but if you are gunning for partner, you should pick WLRK/Williams & Connolly/Munger over Cravath, Weil, etc. Same rationale applies here.

[Anonymous User]

Just curious whether they made anyone partner yet coming up through that office.

A quick look at their website shows 6 equity partners in the office:

* 3 were V&E partners before joining
* 1 was a BB partner before joining
* 1 was a Yetter Coleman partner before joining
* 1 was a STB partner before joining

Maybe some of the NSPs coming up will make it this year/next. Will be interesting to see.

[Anonymous User]

Just curious whether they made anyone partner yet coming up through that office.

A quick look at their website shows 6 equity partners in the office:

* 3 were V&E partners before joining
* 1 was a BB partner before joining
* 1 was a Yetter Coleman partner before joining
* 1 was a STB partner before joining

Maybe some of the NSPs coming up will make it this year/next. Will be interesting to see.

I was told by a partner at the Houston office during recruiting that one of the lawyers who made NSP there is about to be made a SP. Obviously hasn't happened yet so just relaying what I was told.

[Anonymous User]

8 equity partners currently. They said three more being made up this year.

[Anonymous User]

KE (non-Houston) associate here, but I work constantly with the Houston team, so I have a pretty decent relationship with the group.

Good group of people. Culture specific -- need to have a thick skin, and an ambitious but easy-going mentality. You will work hard.

Surprised to hear anything bad about the partners. I work with them a lot and while they're not lovey-dovey they don't seem like assholes.

Downsides are that a) the office is crazy busy and b) it's a small team with a lot of contact with young, ambitious rainmaker superstar partners. Kind of a double-edged sword. If you want to put in your 2-3 years then lateral or go in house, probably not the office for you. If you fuck something up, because it's a tight-nit group, word will get around. You can't hide somewhere in the cracks doing menial work for 40 hours a week, people will know who you are and will staff you on matters and expect you to put serious work in.

And if you want to stick around for longer and try to make partner, also probably not the office for you. I think that the reason to join KE is primarily if you want to do this for 6-7 years and then peace out. You will get higher bonuses but partnership chances will probably be low (on top of the 10 year track). I actually think NSP is a good thing, gives more opportunity to develop business, but a 10 year track sucks.

Are you really complaining about a 10 year track for SP with a 6 year track for NSP? I guess you think places like BB/VE/LW just hand out SP at 8 years total... Please get in touch with reality.

[cookiejar1]

KE (non-Houston) associate here, but I work constantly with the Houston team, so I have a pretty decent relationship with the group.

Good group of people. Culture specific -- need to have a thick skin, and an ambitious but easy-going mentality. You will work hard.

Surprised to hear anything bad about the partners. I work with them a lot and while they're not lovey-dovey they don't seem like assholes.

Downsides are that a) the office is crazy busy and b) it's a small team with a lot of contact with young, ambitious rainmaker superstar partners. Kind of a double-edged sword. If you want to put in your 2-3 years then lateral or go in house, probably not the office for you. If you fuck something up, because it's a tight-nit group, word will get around. You can't hide somewhere in the cracks doing menial work for 40 hours a week, people will know who you are and will staff you on matters and expect you to put serious work in.

And if you want to stick around for longer and try to make partner, also probably not the office for you. I think that the reason to join KE is primarily if you want to do this for 6-7 years and then peace out. You will get higher bonuses but partnership chances will probably be low (on top of the 10 year track). I actually think NSP is a good thing, gives more opportunity to develop business, but a 10 year track sucks.

Are you really complaining about a 10 year track for SP with a 6 year track for NSP? I guess you think places like BB/VE/LW just hand out SP at 8 years total... Please get in touch with reality.

[Anonymous User]

KE (non-Houston) associate here, but I work constantly with the Houston team, so I have a pretty decent relationship with the group.

Good group of people. Culture specific -- need to have a thick skin, and an ambitious but easy-going mentality. You will work hard.

Surprised to hear anything bad about the partners. I work with them a lot and while they're not lovey-dovey they don't seem like assholes.

Downsides are that a) the office is crazy busy and b) it's a small team with a lot of contact with young, ambitious rainmaker superstar partners. Kind of a double-edged sword. If you want to put in your 2-3 years then lateral or go in house, probably not the office for you. If you fuck something up, because it's a tight-nit group, word will get around. You can't hide somewhere in the cracks doing menial work for 40 hours a week, people will know who you are and will staff you on matters and expect you to put serious work in.

And if you want to stick around for longer and try to make partner, also probably not the office for you. I think that the reason to join KE is primarily if you want to do this for 6-7 years and then peace out. You will get higher bonuses but partnership chances will probably be low (on top of the 10 year track). I actually think NSP is a good thing, gives more opportunity to develop business, but a 10 year track sucks.

Are you really complaining about a 10 year track for SP with a 6 year track for NSP? I guess you think places like BB/VE/LW just hand out SP at 8 years total... Please get in touch with reality.

I work at one of the above firms, and it is in fact a true 8-year partnership plan and only equity partner (no non-equity partners). Sure, not everyone makes it. Some people continue on as Senior Associates, and some get a Counsel type role. But every year, in the corporate group at least, 1-2 people get equity partner title upon finishing their 8th year as an associate (in the Houston office). Getting partner title at VE/BB is becoming more difficult (more NYish if you may), but at least there is the possibility to become equity partner after 8 rather than 10. Some may say 2 years is no big deal, those people have not been in big law long enough.

[Anonymous User]

How big is the Summer class going to be?

[Anonymous User]

How big is the Summer class going to be?

I would love to know too. With their expansion, my guess is it's larger than what NALP says.

[Anonymous User]

How big is the Summer class going to be?

I would love to know too. With their expansion, my guess is it's larger than what NALP says.

Was told roughly 25

[RaceJudicata]

How big is the Summer class going to be?

I would love to know too. With their expansion, my guess is it's larger than what NALP says.

Was told roughly 25

damn, thats gonna be a whole lot of first years running around. (for a relatively small office)

[Anonymous User]

Does the Kirkland Houston office allow second visits ("second look")? If so, are they discouraged and are the students who request those seen as needy?

[Bananapancakes]

Does the Kirkland Houston office allow second visits ("second look")? If so, are they discouraged and are the students who request those seen as needy?

I'd be shocked if they didn't. Almost every firm does and if you already have your offer there is zero risk in asking to find out. Worst they can do is say no (they won't). Also totally okay to reach out to the interviewers or attorneys you've met directly with questions or for a phone conversation. Most people actually mean it when they say at the end of every interview to reach out with questions.

[Anonymous User]

How are lateral/exit options if you decide you no longer want to live in Texas?

OP here. By all accounts, very strong. I think that is a big advantage that KE (and Latham) has over the VEs and BBs of the world. The latter two are great firms and an experienced associate at either would have options outside of TX but they would have to hustle more, especially if the desired exit opportunity isn't tied to energy. Rightly or wrongly, prestige and rankings matter in our industry. A Kirkland (and Latham) associate will be a known commodity in just about any market. Again, this is not to say that the BB/VE associate couldn't do the same with some leg-work and hustle. But if the question is "maximizing" lateral/exit options outside of TX, I think the distinction is pretty clear.

I think it remains to be seen how in house exit ops are. We've only had three people go in house so not much of a sample size. We'll just have to see when the market picks back up.

[Anonymous User]

How are lateral/exit options if you decide you no longer want to live in Texas?

OP here. By all accounts, very strong. I think that is a big advantage that KE (and Latham) has over the VEs and BBs of the world. The latter two are great firms and an experienced associate at either would have options outside of TX but they would have to hustle more, especially if the desired exit opportunity isn't tied to energy. Rightly or wrongly, prestige and rankings matter in our industry. A Kirkland (and Latham) associate will be a known commodity in just about any market. Again, this is not to say that the BB/VE associate couldn't do the same with some leg-work and hustle. But if the question is "maximizing" lateral/exit options outside of TX, I think the distinction is pretty clear.

I think it remains to be seen how in house exit ops are. We've only had three people go in house so not much of a sample size. We'll just have to see when the market picks back up.

I would be shocked if the KE/LW exit ops are materially better (or different) than BB/VE (or even Bracewell/AK) in Houston.

[Anonymous User]

How are lateral/exit options if you decide you no longer want to live in Texas?

OP here. By all accounts, very strong. I think that is a big advantage that KE (and Latham) has over the VEs and BBs of the world. The latter two are great firms and an experienced associate at either would have options outside of TX but they would have to hustle more, especially if the desired exit opportunity isn't tied to energy. Rightly or wrongly, prestige and rankings matter in our industry. A Kirkland (and Latham) associate will be a known commodity in just about any market. Again, this is not to say that the BB/VE associate couldn't do the same with some leg-work and hustle. But if the question is "maximizing" lateral/exit options outside of TX, I think the distinction is pretty clear.

I think it remains to be seen how in house exit ops are. We've only had three people go in house so not much of a sample size. We'll just have to see when the market picks back up.

I would be shocked if the KE/LW exit ops are materially better (or different) than BB/VE (or even Bracewell/AK) in Houston.

I am an associate at a Big 3, and with that, I would say in Texas, VE/BB still has a much stronger name for exit options because of how long they have been around. Outside of Texas, I would think KE/Latham would have better options in general just because they have a stronger presence in CA/NY/Chiago/Etc. Hard to beat the VE/BB name in Texas. No idea how they would compare to AK/Bracewell, there really have been mixed reviews/feelings regarding those two in recent years.

[Anonymous User]

Does houston ding via email or snail mail?

[Anonymous User]

Does houston ding via email or snail mail?

CB? I know screener is email

[Anonymous User]

CB？

Yes, CB

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on Sidley Houston?

[Anonymous User]

Am I correct in thinking that the Kirkland Houston office mostly do energy/oil & gas-related work?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Willkie Houston?

[Anonymous User]

Am I correct in thinking that the Kirkland Houston office mostly do energy/oil & gas-related work?

Energy/restructurings from what I understand. They have small lit and M&A groups IIRC. would love to hear more if wrong?

[law&disorder]

OP, why did you move to KE? I know lots of associates who have moved, and all have been for a good reason (i.e. not at a top corp firm, not doing well, etc.) ... unless you were more senior - 4th+ years getting six figure signing bonuses. I guess I just don't see why an associate at a top corp office in Houston would make the jump young if they were well liked and doing good work. The signing bonuses are not worth that kind of move until you are more senior. Definitely not saying those are the only people who move, legitimately curious to hear why the move, as I too receive phone calls about KE often and wonder what the incentive would be.

Have also heard rumors about the super abrasiveness of the associates in the office. I know a couple, and they sure fit the abrasive, or nicely put - "strong personality" type. I also know a couple who are awesome people, so it could just be that the firm does not really have a culture of its own yet.

OP here. Good question. If you are at a top corp office in Houston (consider VE/LW peers in this regard), and are well liked, there is a good argument for staying put but there are also good arguments for making the switch to KE. This becomes a personal calculus, and ties into the factors I mentioned above in an earlier response with regards to professional goals. If your goal is to maximize money you earn while doing this job, while maximizing corporate opportunities outside of Texas as well, then you should come to KE. Anecdotal signing bonuses (this is in addition to guaranteed end of year bonuses for jumping) : 35K (first year), 60-70K (second/third years) + higher for 4th years and above. Your bonuses will be higher here each year here than anywhere else in TX outside of a few lit boutiques. Kirkland pays a multiple of NY market (despite being in Houston) each year. In previous years, this has averaged around 1.2 - 1.5+ of top NY market. At VE, you need to hit 2300 to get NY market. Market is the floor here. Multiples begin, generally, around 2100 with 2300+ getting you around 1.5 territory (in recent years). That's tens of thousands of dollars each year extra. Add that to your signing bonus, and you are looking at making 100K more than your VE peer over two years, with the spread getting bigger over time.

If the goal is to make partner, and you are at VE, and are well liked, strong reasons to stay if you dont mind making less. I'd argue that if at Latham and goal is to make non-equity partner, come to KE and make more money doing it while maintaining same in-house exit opportunities.

If the goal is to make partner, and you are at VE, and are well liked, strong reasons to stay if you dont mind making less. I'd argue that if at Latham and goal is to make non-equity partner, come to KE and make more money doing it while maintaining same in-house exit opportunities.

At a non-TX BigLaw firm doing transactional work and have begun pursuing lateral opportunities in Texas/Houston. What would you say to someone who is choosing between KE and LW, but isn't necessarily striving for partner track? Would be happy to hear any specifics you or one of the other KE associates can offer (by PM or otherwise) about the comparison (to the extent you/they know) about specific comparisons between KE/LW about total comp, culture, actual hours worked, types of deals/experience gained.

[Anonymous User]

Am I correct in thinking that the Kirkland Houston office mostly do energy/oil & gas-related work?

Energy/restructurings from what I understand. They have small lit and M&A groups IIRC. would love to hear more if wrong?

Energy is super broad and includes M&A. They do M&A (which includes oil & gas asset deals), capital markets, debt finance, restructurings and litigation. Lit group is smaller in number than the transaction group as a whole for now, but growing super quickly.