Post removed... Forum

[Lincoln]

In general, it's not a bad strategy to use bidding spots for firms where you have no connections, and dropping firms where you think you have an alternative path to an interview. A few examples: I once bid a firm at the bottom of my list so I could e-mail an associate I knew there and say that I bid on them but didn't get them; he forwarded my resume and I got a screener. I did the same with another firm where I knew a 2L summering there. I ended up e-mailing recruiting / asking my friend to forward my resume / showing up at the hospitality suite and giving them my resume yet again, until they finally gave me a screener. Worth noting that both of these were firms where I was about .3 above their average, and I was making room on my bidlist for more competitive firms. So if it's a target firm and the fact that they have a hospitality suite is the only special feature, I would probably only consider it as a tiebreaker between similar firms. Just my opinion.

Agree on this tactic and that it needs to be used with care. Another data point: I hit it off with the hiring partner at a 1L reception and made a point to stay in sporadic email contact over the summer. I then bid his firm fairly low, didn't get a screener, emailed him lamenting said development, he said he'd contact HR, I checked in at the hospitality suite and dropped his name, where they informed me they wanted to schedule a CB without a screener.

It's a bit risky though. If you really want a firm, better to get a screener AND a referral.

[Anonymous User]

Traditionally speaking, is it realistic to believe that one can get the first 3 or 4 bids each day? (Given that it's a mixed batch of 20 and 40 slots).

And I suppose a follow up to that, could anyone suggest why OCS is no longer providing the Low/High data?

[Lavitz]

Traditionally speaking, is it realistic to believe that one can get the first 3 or 4 bids each day? (Given that it's a mixed batch of 20 and 40 slots).

And I suppose a follow up to that, could anyone suggest why OCS is no longer providing the Low/High data?

Yes, unless you put a popular firm with 20 slots or a very popular firm with 40-60 slots at 3-4. Except Wednesday where you'll be lucky to get more than 2.

Presumably because they're concerned about people imagining that they will be the special snowflake that can get a callback at a firm where they're barely at last years low gpa.

[runthetrap1990]

And I suppose a follow up to that, could anyone suggest why OCS is no longer providing the Low/High data?

Frankly, neither the low or high are particularly revealing or informative. Basing any decision off of them would be a poor strategy (unless the range was so tight as to basically indicate that the mean really is the GPA they are going after [e.g., something that looks like this: 3.62-3.65-3.67]), so OCS probably concluded the same and just gave you means, which are useful for the most part.

[Anonymous User]

Anon asking about the Low/High here.

Well in that case. Is 0.1 or 0.2 a roughly acceptable range or does that start to become a stretch.

[runthetrap1990]

Anon asking about the Low/High here.

Well in that case. Is 0.1 or 0.2 a roughly acceptable range or does that start to become a stretch.

Do you mean .1 or .2 is an acceptable range for low and high estimates? If that's the case, it really is not an acceptable range because there is tremendous fluctuation depending on the firm. Some firms will have a 3.55 mean but have a high of 3.9 and a low of 3.2, for example. In other cases you may see a high of 3.7 and a low of 3.09 for a 3.65 mean firm. I think there is too much variance and unpredictability in determining the high's and low's for you to have an estimate range to think about.

On the other hand, if you mean is .1 or .2 an acceptable range to target for bidding purposes, I would say staying within 0.1 of the mean is a good rule of thumb to use when in doubt, but it shouldn't completely guide your bidding strategy. There are definitely a lot of other important considerations that you need to take into account, but the +/- 0.1 of mean GPA is a good way to get a gauge of how competitive you are or how big of a reach the firm is.

[King Cayuga]

I agree that the low/high is generally less useful than the median, but there are definitely situations where it helps (i.e. where the median is much closer to the low number than the high one and vice-versa). I actually have all of the data from last year's firms in a spreadsheet but I'm not sure if Cornell would flip out if I posted it.

[runinthefront]

I agree that the low/high is generally less useful than the median, but there are definitely situations where it helps (i.e. where the median is much closer to the low number than the high one and vice-versa). I actually have all of the data from last year's firms in a spreadsheet but I'm not sure if Cornell would flip out if I posted it.

You probably shouldn't post it on TLS, regardless of whether the administration flips out.

[Lavitz]

Just going to point out that certain bidlists posted in the threads from previous years have this information for the firms included. For those who are curious.

[Anonymous User]

What AJF firms are the best bet for those with weak GPAs? Cornell of course has a good reputation in general with biglaw, but for those who have around 3.2 GPA, what is the best route to take at AJF?

[runthetrap1990]

What AJF firms are the best bet for those with weak GPAs? Cornell of course has a good reputation in general with biglaw, but for those who have around 3.2 GPA, what is the best route to take at AJF?

Interviewing is probably the single most important factor for you and having a precise and clean interview is what is going to help you fight a weak GPA. There are obviously firms out of your reach, but there are still plenty of firms that would be open to someone in your grade range. You just need to make sure that you maximize the number of sceeners you get scheduled. And then when AJF rolls around, hustle and make sure that your interviewing is spot on so that you can maximize what you end up getting for call backs, since more callbacks = higher probability of an offer. And all it takes is one.

Regarding bidding, as mentioned previously, I would bid for firms with means around your +/- 0.1 of your GPA, and then try and pick up more slots when the open enrollment round opens up. I would do some research on firms that are N/A, although don't waste high bid spots on them since you don't know what could happen. Just make sure you are bidding on firms that are going to work for you and don't waste bid spots on firms that just won't happen. I think approaching your bidding with care and some conservatism will end up going a long way for you.

[Lincoln]

What AJF firms are the best bet for those with weak GPAs? Cornell of course has a good reputation in general with biglaw, but for those who have around 3.2 GPA, what is the best route to take at AJF?

Go for firms with a good combination of low GPA requirements and not tiny summer classes.

[clshopeful]

As a potential CLS transfer, is the OCI 1 and 2 basically bullshit or something? People make it sound like if a transfer misses AJF, he/she is fucked. Aren't there still biglaw jobs at oci 1 and 2?

[Lincoln]

As a potential CLS transfer, is the OCI 1 and 2 basically bullshit or something? People make it sound like if a transfer misses AJF, he/she is fucked. Aren't there still biglaw jobs at oci 1 and 2?

Very few.

[Lavitz]

As a potential CLS transfer, is the OCI 1 and 2 basically bullshit or something? People make it sound like if a transfer misses AJF, he/she is fucked. Aren't there still biglaw jobs at oci 1 and 2?

No, there aren't. All the NYC biglaw firms are at AJF. OCI is basically upstate firms and PI/government jobs. My year, Skadden sent someone to OCI, but I think they stopped that. Maybe 1 or 2 firms with NYC offices, like Nixon Peabody, will be there, but otherwise, no.

[runinthefront]

What AJF firms are the best bet for those with weak GPAs? Cornell of course has a good reputation in general with biglaw, but for those who have around 3.2 GPA, what is the best route to take at AJF?

1. Practice interviewing.
2. Reach out to 3Ls you know/trust at firms with =< 3.5ish cut-offs and just talk to them about their firms
3. Do informational interviews with basically any firm that will allow you to in NYC; try setting them up with associates who went to your undergrad (if small) or if you have something else in common with them
4. Practice interviewing some more
5. Practice interviewing
6. ???
7. Rake in callbacks.


Seriously, your confidence/non-awkwardness at AJF will determine your success. There are many firms willing to give CBs to those with 3.2 GPAs, but you have to give them a reason to. Having an amazing interview with someone at AJF is one reason. Being able to tell the interviewer that you've talked to/met X-summer associate already, and X-incoming associate, and had coffee with x-current associate/partner is also huge

Like Lavitz said, you should also be shooting for firms with larger summer classes. Better to ensure an interview with the firm who had a 3.4 average but 30 summer spots instead of a firm with a 3.25 average and 3 summer spots firmwide IMO

[betty_bojangles]

Question - is it bad to post your bidlist on here or should I PM you guys for advice instead?

[Lavitz]

Question - is it bad to post your bidlist on here or should I PM you guys for advice instead?

Pros of posting here:
We can respond to each others' comments / saves us from typing out duplicative responses

Cons of posting here:
Lurkers can steal your ideas / benefit from our advice

[clshopeful]

So one more quick off-topic Q.

If I dont get in to CLS via transfer by June 23, it's really not worth it to attend? Thoughts on getting in later and mass-mailing firms. Would that be a way to an SA?

[Lavitz]

So one more quick off-topic Q.

If I dont get in to CLS via transfer by June 23, it's really not worth it to attend? Thoughts on getting in later and mass-mailing firms. Would that be a way to an SA?

I'm not an expert on transfers, but there should be ways to an SA without submitting a bidlist in time. First, I doubt OCS actually bars you from showing up at AJF. You should still be able to sign up for open slots on the open slot days, so maybe you could grab 2-3 screeners that way. You could also show up at AJF and do a resume drop at every hospitality suite. And of course you can always mass-mail with the Cornell name on your resume. Maybe also try the informational interview strategy runinthefront detailed above. I know transfers have gotten biglaw jobs, but I'm not sure whether all of those who did got in before the bidlist deadline.

As for whether it's worth it to transfer given the above, it will depend on whether Cornell is the only T-14 you get into and whether you'd be giving up OCI screeners at your current school.

[betty_bojangles]

Would anyone mind critiquing my bidlist via PM?

[Lavitz]

Would anyone mind critiquing my bidlist via PM?

I will volunteer runinthefront and runthetrap on their behalf.

Have fun, guys!

But also send it to me.

[HorrendousKablooie]

.

[mt2165]

Hello all, long time lurker and first time poster.

I'm currently tinkering with a bidlist, trying to self-evaluate as honestly as I can, but outside perspectives never hurt. My base stats:
-Grades: 3.64
-No LR or Journal b/c I'm bad at life
-Average (I think) interviewing skills. Done some practice interviews already, but gonna try to get as much exp in this regard as possible b4 AJF
-Weak resume. Prestigious undergrad, but no internships or substantive exp of any kind in college. To make matters worse, 2 yr gap in between undergrad and law school with only 1/2 year of non-law related part time employment.

If I'd gotten my act together sooner and didn't have such a glaringly sparse resume, I'd feel like I had a solid shot at AJF. Ironically, I (think I) have solid grades, which is the one factor everyone harps is the end-all be-all of OCI/AJF. But from reviewing some of the threads on here and just talking to employers, it seems like grades are sort of a necessary but not sufficient sort of thing when it comes to big law hiring. Considering my situation, my instinct is to apply a negative modifier to my gpa for bidding purposes, but
1) I'm not sure if I'm being overly pessimistic about my situation, and
2) if my instinct is correct, I'm not sure how great or small of a negative modifier to apply

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! =)

You're definitely being overly pessimistic. You have roughly top third grades at a school that truly funnels mofos into nyc big law, big law is urs to lose. Practice interviewing, like a ton. You wanna nail it almost every time. You can easily get callbacks at firms with similar gpa medians and can even get them at more competitive firms by being a great interviewer. A ton of people have averageish resumes (UG, LS, WE) and do very well at ajf because it's essentially grades and interviewing skills with a few other factors having a marginal effect.

[Anonymous User]

Hello all, long time lurker and first time poster.

I'm currently tinkering with a bidlist, trying to self-evaluate as honestly as I can, but outside perspectives never hurt. My base stats:
-Grades: 3.64
-No LR or Journal b/c I'm bad at life
-Average (I think) interviewing skills. Done some practice interviews already, but gonna try to get as much exp in this regard as possible b4 AJF
-Weak resume. Prestigious undergrad, but no internships or substantive exp of any kind in college. To make matters worse, 2 yr gap in between undergrad and law school with only 1/2 year of non-law related part time employment.

If I'd gotten my act together sooner and didn't have such a glaringly sparse resume, I'd feel like I had a solid shot at AJF. Ironically, I (think I) have solid grades, which is the one factor everyone harps is the end-all be-all of OCI/AJF. But from reviewing some of the threads on here and just talking to employers, it seems like grades are sort of a necessary but not sufficient sort of thing when it comes to big law hiring. Considering my situation, my instinct is to apply a negative modifier to my gpa for bidding purposes, but
1) I'm not sure if I'm being overly pessimistic about my situation, and
2) if my instinct is correct, I'm not sure how great or small of a negative modifier to apply

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! =)

My resume was somewhat similar to yours. I had good grades, no journal, and no work history.

Ultimately, I think my interviewing skills were a larger obstacle than anything else. I received plenty of callbacks, but struggled converting those callbacks into offers because having 4 non-awkward 30 min conversations in a row can be a challenge for me.

My suggestion would be to work hard on interviewing skills. I wouldn't apply a negative modifier to your gpa. Don't bit aggressively, but there are plenty of firms within reach.