IBR + PSLF woes Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. I'm thinking that perhaps that disclaimer is given under the assumption that I will be consolidating but not utilizing PSLF. If that were the case and I consolidated the Perkins loan, I would lose forgiveness eligibility for the forgiveness programs specific to Perkins loans only (based upon my reading of the following):

H. If I am consolidating a Perkins Loan:
I will no longer be eligible for interest-free periods while I am enrolled in school at least half time, in the grace period on my loan, and during deferment periods; and
I will no longer be eligible for full or partial loan cancellation under the Perkins Loan Program based on years of service in one of the following occupations: teacher in a low-income elementary or secondary school; staff member in an eligible preschool program; special education teacher; member of the Armed Forces who qualifies for special pay; Peace Corps volunteer or volunteer under the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973; law enforcement or corrections officer; attorney in an eligible defender organization; teacher of mathematics, science, foreign languages, bilingual education or any other high-need field; nurse or medical technician providing health care services; employee of a public or private nonprofit child or family service agency that services high-risk children from low-income families and their families; fire fighter; faculty member at a Tribal College or University; librarian; or speech language pathologist.

Could that be the case?

[Tanicius]

I don't know. I did personally consolidate a Perkins loan, but I'd call your loan provider to make sure.

[jess]

.

[Nebby]

It's possible to put some fed direct loans on PAYE and keep others at the standard 10 year repayment, right? I don't see why not, but I just want to make sure

[jess]

.

[gmail]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

[Nebby]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

omg I know

If you cop an LRAP then it's cheddar

[Anonymous User]

So this has been frightening reading. A few questions for the seasoned.

Me: Just graduated in May, have a one-year fellowship that qualifies for PSLF and full-repayment under my school's LRAP (GULC). I'm looking at consolidating loans under IBR, because I have pre-2007 stuff. 180K total.

I looked at the consolidation application today (everything will be with FedLoan Servicing (PHEAA)), but am reluctant to process the application now for two reasons.

1. I don't have all documentation for my fellowship. I've been offered, accepted, processed paperwork with HR, but have received no formal employment documentation in return.

2. I did not file a tax return for 2015 because my income was below-threshold, and I met other non-filer requirements. I did have a small amount of income and have all documentation for that.

Should I wait to do this until receiving all of the documentation from my employer? Should I file a late tax return, or is it OK to provide proof of AGI/income through other means? It says you can do that. I'm trying to jump on all of this early because the law school recommends 90 days for processing, apparently for good reasons. My LRAP application is not due until November 1. From there, it's a six-month recertification process.

Should I do REPAYE instead? I'm not married and never will be. Welcome me to hell?

[zot1]

I would submit app as soon as you can. The process can take a while and that can mess you up a bit.

You're not screwed but a good strategy would be to either find over 100k paying jobs or to stick to PSLF eligible jobs.

Honestly, owing debt isn't fun and actually it sucks balls. But, if you can manage it through loan repayment plans and IBR and whatnot, you can still have a decent life.

[bern victim]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

omg I know

If you cop an LRAP then it's cheddar

Shit I forgot lrap exists. Now I really don't give a fuck about my loans. I could just quit tomorrow

[Nebby]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

omg I know

If you cop an LRAP then it's cheddar

Shit I forgot lrap exists. Now I really don't give a fuck about my loans. I could just quit tomorrow

What?

[bern victim]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

omg I know

If you cop an LRAP then it's cheddar

Shit I forgot lrap exists. Now I really don't give a fuck about my loans. I could just quit tomorrow

What?

I stopped caring about my loans bc of paye and have mentally resigned myself to a lifetime of tithing to the govt

But I forgot about LRAP entirely. That makes me feel even better about taking a lower paying job

[Nebby]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

omg I know

If you cop an LRAP then it's cheddar

Shit I forgot lrap exists. Now I really don't give a fuck about my loans. I could just quit tomorrow

What?

I stopped caring about my loans bc of paye and have mentally resigned myself to a lifetime of tithing to the govt

But I forgot about LRAP entirely. That makes me feel even better about taking a lower paying job

Yuh boi! Get on it

Thanks to PAYE, PSLF, and LRAP, I wont be making a single federal loan payment from my own funds for the next 10 years, so long as my income doesn't rise above ~$100k.

[zot1]

It blows my mind how incredibly lucky we are to have IBR and PSLF. This is like the GI bill for post-recession millenials.

omg I know

If you cop an LRAP then it's cheddar

Shit I forgot lrap exists. Now I really don't give a fuck about my loans. I could just quit tomorrow

What?

I stopped caring about my loans bc of paye and have mentally resigned myself to a lifetime of tithing to the govt

But I forgot about LRAP entirely. That makes me feel even better about taking a lower paying job

Yuh boi! Get on it

Thanks to PAYE, PSLF, and LRAP, I wont be making a single federal loan payment from my own funds for the next 10 years, so long as my income doesn't rise above ~$100k.

You have a way better LRAP than me. I'm gonna be ineligible by the end of this year

[Anonymous User]

This is why I am terrified of sending in my PSLFP form. I currently have all my loans under Navient and after 4 years of dealing with them I've noticed a significant improvement over the last year or two. Plus I've learned how to deal with them after many frustrations over the early years. But the second I send that form in it will switch my loans to FedLoan Servicing and I know it will be a world of pain.

Btw, a tip for those with Navient. The person you speak to on the phone has tremendous power. they can do 90% of all the things they send to the back office right when they're on the phone with you. Ask them to do it, and if they don't just call back he second the back office fails to do anything and get he person on the phone to do it right there and then.

So is there a reason to send in your PSLF yet? I graduate in May, so forgive my ignorance here. But wouldn't it make sense to wait to certify so as not to lose your less terrible servicer?

I'm in a similar boat. I currently get my student loans serviced by Navient and have been with them for about 4 years, too.

Navient has its quirks and ups and downs, but I know them and have gotten used to them.

I want to submit an Employment Certification for Public Service Loan Forgiveness form to Fedloan so that I can start tracking my progress for PSLF instead of waiting till year 10. I especially want to make sure that the DOE is tracking that I have been paying my payments each month for the past 4 years.

I have no concerns that my job truly qualifies for PSLF. I just want to make sure that the payments I've been paying for the past 4 years have been tracked.

Can I get some input on whether I should submit a Employment Certification for Public Service Loan Forgiveness form?

I have three main concerns:
1) If I switch over to Fedloan, there will be a lot of recordkeeping lost in the process.
2) Fedloan will not be as good as Navient and working with a new loan servicer will open up a whole headache for me.

[GreenEggs]

Thanks to PAYE, PSLF, and LRAP, I wont be making a single federal loan payment from my own funds for the next 10 years, so long as my income doesn't rise above ~$100k.

You're going the PSLF LRAP route not the straight LRAP?

[Nebby]

Thanks to PAYE, PSLF, and LRAP, I wont be making a single federal loan payment from my own funds for the next 10 years, so long as my income doesn't rise above ~$100k.

You're going the PSLF LRAP route not the straight LRAP?

I'm doing the second IBR option. The one at 50k and still amortizes the debt. About 100k is when my annual benefit would no longer cover my PAYE payment. I haven't done the math completely, but it's around there.

I have undergrad fed debt, and since you can't have loans in different repayment plans (I.e., keep my law school loans on standard and undergrad on PAYE), then I have to to go with one of the IBR LRAP. The 100k one doesn't amortize but the 50k one does

[texas4ever]

I've had major problems getting FedLoan to count my payments correctly. At this point I should have 26 payments - including one that they incorrectly told me to make, and their general counsel's office decided they'd count because the mistake was on their end. Somehow they only count 17. I call them every couple months to get them to fix their mistake, and every couple months they claim they're going to do it. And then I hear nothing and have to call again two months later. Every single interaction with them involves a huge mistake on their end, and everyone I've talked to about FedLoan has a similar story to tell.

[grand inquisitor]

they are definitely fuckwads. the really unfortunate, though perhaps unsurprising, thing is that all their fuckups seem to be in their favor.

[Nebby]

I filed my first certification form to FedLoan and my loans were transferred from Great Lakes to FedLoan in early July. I am not looking forward to having to hassle with them

[pterodactyls]

If I understand correctly, you don't have to register into PSLF from the beginning to seek forgiveness under PSLF.

So, is the moral of the story:
1. Don't register into PSLF and keep your current loan servicer with an income-based plan (to avoid FedLoan)
2. Every time you leave an employer have them fill out the PSLF form but don't send it in
3. Wait until you have completed 120 payments
4. Then send everything in all at once?

Would this work? Any major downside to this method?

[Nebby]

If I understand correctly, you don't have to register into PSLF from the beginning to seek forgiveness under PSLF.

So, is the moral of the story:
1. Don't register into PSLF and keep your current loan servicer with an income-based plan (to avoid FedLoan)
2. Every time you leave an employer have them fill out the PSLF form but don't send it in
3. Wait until you have completed 120 payments
4. Then send everything in all at once?

Would this work? Any major downside to this method?

Downside: DOE determines one of your employers doesn't qualify, and because you never submitted certifications you had no idea and now have to work more time in qualifying employment.
Downside: Your servicer fucks up paperwork, and because FedLoan has no record of anything over 10 years, you're fucked.
Downside: Trump Administration signs bill repealing PSLF with no grandfather clause, and you have no proof that you ever intended to use the program since you never certified, which means you can make no detrimental reliance claim.

FedLoan isn't terrible, but the ability to have the majority of your payment history with the same servicer that has authority to certify your PSLF and forgive your loans has enough upside that it's worth the hassle.

I certified my employer and initiated the transfer to FedLoan precisely because I want as much evidence possible to prove my participation in the program in case it is ever repealed with no grandfather clause, which means I would be able to sue and argue detrimental reliance. If I never submitted a certification, then I can't prove that I intended to use the program and thus can't prove that I detrimentally relied on it.

[pterodactyls]

If I understand correctly, you don't have to register into PSLF from the beginning to seek forgiveness under PSLF.

So, is the moral of the story:
1. Don't register into PSLF and keep your current loan servicer with an income-based plan (to avoid FedLoan)
2. Every time you leave an employer have them fill out the PSLF form but don't send it in
3. Wait until you have completed 120 payments
4. Then send everything in all at once?

Would this work? Any major downside to this method?

Downside: DOE determines one of your employers doesn't qualify, and because you never submitted certifications you had no idea and now have to work more time in qualifying employment.
Downside: Your servicer fucks up paperwork, and because FedLoan has no record of anything over 10 years, you're fucked.
Downside: Trump Administration signs bill repealing PSLF with no grandfather clause, and you have no proof that you ever intended to use the program since you never certified, which means you can make no detrimental reliance claim.

FedLoan isn't terrible, but the ability to have the majority of your payment history with the same servicer that has authority to certify your PSLF and forgive your loans has enough upside that it's worth the hassle.

I certified my employer and initiated the transfer to FedLoan precisely because I want as much evidence possible to prove my participation in the program in case it is ever repealed with no grandfather clause, which means I would be able to sue and argue detrimental reliance. If I never submitted a certification, then I can't prove that I intended to use the program and thus can't prove that I detrimentally relied on it.

Thanks for the info! That makes sense.

Lets say it's 2022, and I have a PSLF form signed from my 2018 clerkship that I never sent in (to avoid FedLoan). Could that be evidence for detrimental reliance that I planned to seek forgiveness? Or do you think they would limit it to those who are registered in the PSLF program with FedLoan?

Edit: I guess the back-date wouldn't prove much unless it was notarized or something?

[Nebby]

If I understand correctly, you don't have to register into PSLF from the beginning to seek forgiveness under PSLF.

So, is the moral of the story:
1. Don't register into PSLF and keep your current loan servicer with an income-based plan (to avoid FedLoan)
2. Every time you leave an employer have them fill out the PSLF form but don't send it in
3. Wait until you have completed 120 payments
4. Then send everything in all at once?

Would this work? Any major downside to this method?

Downside: DOE determines one of your employers doesn't qualify, and because you never submitted certifications you had no idea and now have to work more time in qualifying employment.
Downside: Your servicer fucks up paperwork, and because FedLoan has no record of anything over 10 years, you're fucked.
Downside: Trump Administration signs bill repealing PSLF with no grandfather clause, and you have no proof that you ever intended to use the program since you never certified, which means you can make no detrimental reliance claim.

FedLoan isn't terrible, but the ability to have the majority of your payment history with the same servicer that has authority to certify your PSLF and forgive your loans has enough upside that it's worth the hassle.

I certified my employer and initiated the transfer to FedLoan precisely because I want as much evidence possible to prove my participation in the program in case it is ever repealed with no grandfather clause, which means I would be able to sue and argue detrimental reliance. If I never submitted a certification, then I can't prove that I intended to use the program and thus can't prove that I detrimentally relied on it.

Thanks for the info! That makes sense.

Lets say it's 2022, and I have a PSLF form signed from my 2018 clerkship that I never sent in (to avoid FedLoan). Could that be evidence for detrimental reliance that I planned to seek forgiveness? Or do you think they would limit it to those who are registered in the PSLF program with FedLoan?

Edit: I guess the back-date wouldn't prove much unless it was notarized or something?

Yeah how do they know you're not lying? The strongest claim is if they have it on file with fed loan. I think the safest route is filing certifications annually. I thought about doing what you're thinking of but ultimately decided the risks outweighed the shitty customer service at fedloan

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't file certifications annually; I've only filed them when I've left jobs. Mostly because the idea of getting a certification from my current HR every year seems really annoys me; also, the certification asks for how long you worked at the job, and it makes no sense (to me) to file that until you know the answer to that, which is when you leave (or when you're filing for PSLF). I have a friend who does what Nebby does, but I just don't. I have certifications from the three previous jobs I've held, obtained when I left each of them. Then (hopefully) I'll get this one certified once I hit 120 payments and send it all in.

This probably seems like the worst of both worlds because it gets you FedLoans without the whole annual proof of intent to rely for a detrimental reliance claim. But the forms will have been filed with the PSLF people at the time so it's not like I'm coming up with all of them after the fact. Mostly I think if I'm relying on a detrimental reliance law suit to save me, I'm screwed regardless.