Let's talk in-house salaries Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm the Fund OP. Would prefer not to PM since people know me IRL and don't want to out my salary. I can answer any questions ITT.

I do more than just fund work; I also do securities/M&A/compliance/employment etc. I'm basically a jack of all trades.

Is it constant fire drills or do you know what you have to do in general on a day-to-day basis? Also do you have a blackberry or no? I know in some jobs you don't have to check email once you're out of the office...

Rarely do I have fire drills; but we're on buy side so we generally dictate terms and timing. I don't have a blackberry but I do have email on my phone and I do check email when i'm home but I don't generally get any and if i do there's no rush to deal with it until morning.

It does get crazier if it's right in the middle of a deal or right before a 10-Q/K filing but otherwise it's pretty standard hours.

Can you explain how target bonuses work? I am evaluating an offer that has a target bonus (though it is a $ figure and not a percentage). Do you just negotiate milestones with the higher ups or is it more based on profitability?

[Anonymous User]

4 years out of law school
1.5 years in-house
Corporate
Base salary is $200K
Target bonus is 20-25% of salary
Industry is finance/funds in NYC

Hours are typically 9:30 - 6:30. No weekend work and I rarely work from home.

Would love a PM too. I feel I'm in a related but "inferior" position. Working in a JD-advantaged role at an ibank in a primary market making half of that base, 1.5 years out of law school (no big law experience), primarily negotiating ISDAs, PB, and MCAs with funds. I like my current role, but would love to explore long term career options/broadening skillset.

Fund OP here - it sounds like you're getting pigeonholed. I think you should consider going to biglaw for a bit to get more varied experience.

I did almost 3 years of biglaw and did general corporate work in securities, M&A, finance and a little fund work. I didn't have much fund experience before I got this job - really I came on more as a securities/M&A person and then got looped into the fund work because the other fund lawyer left and the GC didn't want to hire someone else. I've picked up on things mostly by reading firm memos and asking outside counsel questions.

I think the reason I can command a higher salary is because I do so many different things that it's not as easy to replace me. I'm not an expert in anything but I know a little bit of a lot of things. We rely on outside counsel as experts.

[Anonymous User]

Can you explain how target bonuses work? I am evaluating an offer that has a target bonus (though it is a $ figure and not a percentage). Do you just negotiate milestones with the higher ups or is it more based on profitability?

I negotiated based on what I was getting in biglaw. They didn't want to match biglaw but I pushed on it to try and get it as close as possible. The most leverage you'll have is before you accept the offer - once you start working there it's hard to get a big bump in pay unless you take on more responsibilities or leverage another job offer. I constantly feel like I need to prove my worth since I don't have billable hours. One way is to show our legal spend going down; but really the best way is to manage deals efficiently so that the business folks feel like they can rely on you for good advice (most of the time this is just by leveraging advice from outside counsel).

[Anonymous User]

Can you explain how target bonuses work? I am evaluating an offer that has a target bonus (though it is a $ figure and not a percentage). Do you just negotiate milestones with the higher ups or is it more based on profitability?

I negotiated based on what I was getting in biglaw. They didn't want to match biglaw but I pushed on it to try and get it as close as possible. The most leverage you'll have is before you accept the offer - once you start working there it's hard to get a big bump in pay unless you take on more responsibilities or leverage another job offer. I constantly feel like I need to prove my worth since I don't have billable hours. One way is to show our legal spend going down; but really the best way is to manage deals efficiently so that the business folks feel like they can rely on you for good advice (most of the time this is just by leveraging advice from outside counsel).

thanks! I think I have pushed the limits of credulity in negotiating the offer. Which BTW, I think is a good lesson for BL refugees, you have to push back and get that pay upped or you'll be pretty much stuck at that pay barring, as you said, moving up for leveraging another offer (which a lot of people don't like to do and a lot of managers don't really appreciate that).


Is it pretty much guaranteed or is it variable year to year? If variable, the variation is based on what?

[Anonymous User]

3 Years out of law school
1 month In-House (non-legal)
Corporate Associate in biglaw for 1.5 years (corporate)
Base salary is $190K
Target bonus is 20-30K
Industry is risk management in large investment bank

[Anonymous User]

I think it would be good for you all to post your # in http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=258538


3.5 years out of law school
3.5 years in-house (2.5 at the current company, 1 at another)
Transactional(general corporate, commercial transactions, employment, marketing, sponsorship, production deals, etc )
Base salary is $105K
small 401k contribution. 21 vacation days + holidays/sick days/personal days. Generally 9-6 M-F
Industry is Sports/Entertainment/Advertising

Pay is good relative to the size of the company, hours I work, and the industry. In another 1-2 years I would have the qualifications to get into a larger company (high base pay, options, and better benefits), but would likely lose my job security and become more of a cog in a much larger legal department

[dailygrind]

I'm the Fund OP. Would prefer not to PM since people know me IRL and don't want to out my salary. I can answer any questions ITT.

I do more than just fund work; I also do securities/M&A/compliance/employment etc. I'm basically a jack of all trades.

When you say fund work, what do you mean? Like, 40 Act stuff? Trying to get a feel for what specialties seem to command the best inhouse salaries. Not planning to jump ship right now, but definitely good to keep options open in this industry...

[Anonymous User]

5 years out of law school. F500 oil and gas in Texas. 3 years Biglaw transactional.

145k base
Last year's bonus ~40k (likely lower this year)
Stock Grant ~35k (stock tanked though )
7% 401k match + 7% Defined Benefit Pension Contribution
9/80 work schedule (every other Friday off with 80 hours per-two weeks)

It's a fantastic gig if I can keep it through the downturn, but it's looking to be a tough year in the industry.

[Anonymous User]

1 year out of law school.
1 year at this job.

Mid size city, secondary market.
Base: $90k
Bonus: depends on profitability, but $15k last year.
Stock awards: options and restricted stock: $15k+ -- hard to put an exact dollar amount on this.
Same health insurance/ employee benefits as a employee of a large company would expect.
Some travel required, but not too much. Hours 8-5, no evening work and no weekend work (although I've gone in and completed some tasks on a weekend it was completely voluntary). I check my work email a lot, just out of habit, but rarely do any issues pop up outside of business hours.
I do some "corporate" work, but the majority of my time is spent dealing with "in house" type issues that can pop up from the business units and then doing/assisting/managing our litigation and arbitration cases.
Love the job. Don't plan on going anywhere else the rest of my career, so long as I can advance and they don't shit can me. I was on the phone with opposing counsel yesterday and he said, "I like working with corporate counsel guys because you guys always have an eye on the costs of litigation and the costs of the issue. Regular lawyers don't seem to care, but you guys are true businessmen." That made me laugh and smile, but it is true, the only reason I care about costs is the man at the top harps on them.

[BizBro]

Tag

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Glad this thread is taking off. This is awesome stuff. Keep posting everyone. This is great industry data to help us all negotiate better salaries.

If we continue to get lots of good data, I might even get ambitious and create a spreadsheet after a couple of months so there is an easy reference.

You might have noticed I added hours, travel and 401K match info. Please start adding too.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

5 years out of law school. F500 oil and gas in Texas. 3 years Biglaw transactional.

145k base
Last year's bonus ~40k (likely lower this year)
Stock Grant ~35k (stock tanked though )
7% 401k match + 7% Defined Benefit Pension Contribution
9/80 work schedule (every other Friday off with 80 hours per-two weeks)

It's a fantastic gig if I can keep it through the downturn, but it's looking to be a tough year in the industry.

Yeah...doesn't look great for oil and gas or Texas in general. Abandon ship?

[Anonymous User]

I'm the Fund OP. Would prefer not to PM since people know me IRL and don't want to out my salary. I can answer any questions ITT.

I do more than just fund work; I also do securities/M&A/compliance/employment etc. I'm basically a jack of all trades.

When you say fund work, what do you mean? Like, 40 Act stuff? Trying to get a feel for what specialties seem to command the best inhouse salaries. Not planning to jump ship right now, but definitely good to keep options open in this industry...

Not so much 40 act but investment advisors act. I do have to know some 40 act because we need to check our exemptions quarterly. I think M&A would command the best in house options, especially if you also know securities law.

[dailygrind]

I'm the Fund OP. Would prefer not to PM since people know me IRL and don't want to out my salary. I can answer any questions ITT.

I do more than just fund work; I also do securities/M&A/compliance/employment etc. I'm basically a jack of all trades.

When you say fund work, what do you mean? Like, 40 Act stuff? Trying to get a feel for what specialties seem to command the best inhouse salaries. Not planning to jump ship right now, but definitely good to keep options open in this industry...

Not so much 40 act but investment advisors act. I do have to know some 40 act because we need to check our exemptions quarterly. I think M&A would command the best in house options, especially if you also know securities law.

Yeah, the M&A thing jives with what everyone else has been telling me as well. Something about buying and selling businesses giving you a good eye for what documents corporations generally should have. Seems like a rough practice in firms, though - those deals seem to come out of nowhere and get closed really quickly.

[Anonymous User]

To tell you the truth I think tech transactions is best for exit options. Most inhouse jobs seem to involve commercial contracts. When I was interviewing for inhouse jobs they all seemed to stress real world commercial contracts experience.

[Anonymous User]

5 years out of law school. F500 oil and gas in Texas. 3 years Biglaw transactional.

145k base
Last year's bonus ~40k (likely lower this year)
Stock Grant ~35k (stock tanked though )
7% 401k match + 7% Defined Benefit Pension Contribution
9/80 work schedule (every other Friday off with 80 hours per-two weeks)

It's a fantastic gig if I can keep it through the downturn, but it's looking to be a tough year in the industry.

Yeah...doesn't look great for oil and gas or Texas in general. Abandon ship?

Anon poster from above...

Thing about oil is that it's a very cyclical industry. As a result, there are huge rewards if you have made it through a downturn and make it to the next upswing. You can get promoted very quickly and stock granted in the downturn can prove very lucrative. I suppose I could look for a job in another industry, but I would miss the big potential rewards on the upswing. Lawyers are in much better shape than the geologists and engineers if they do need to bail since legal skills are more transferable.

[Anonymous User]

5 years out of law school. F500 oil and gas in Texas. 3 years Biglaw transactional.

145k base
Last year's bonus ~40k (likely lower this year)
Stock Grant ~35k (stock tanked though )
7% 401k match + 7% Defined Benefit Pension Contribution
9/80 work schedule (every other Friday off with 80 hours per-two weeks)

It's a fantastic gig if I can keep it through the downturn, but it's looking to be a tough year in the industry.

Yeah...doesn't look great for oil and gas or Texas in general. Abandon ship?

Anon poster from above...

Thing about oil is that it's a very cyclical industry. As a result, there are huge rewards if you have made it through a downturn and make it to the next upswing. You can get promoted very quickly and stock granted in the downturn can prove very lucrative. I suppose I could look for a job in another industry, but I would miss the big potential rewards on the upswing. Lawyers are in much better shape than the geologists and engineers if they do need to bail since legal skills are more transferable.

I think you should definitely stick with it. I think oil companies wont lay off until they absolutely have to (which should be a while before hitting in house counsel). I work biglaw in TX and thought about leaving the city (guessing you are in Houston as well), but decided to stay and hope to make it till times are good as well. It is a boom and bust industry and all the companies/firms know it. Sounds like you landed an awesome gig!

[Anonymous User]

5 years out of law school. F500 oil and gas in Texas. 3 years Biglaw transactional.

145k base
Last year's bonus ~40k (likely lower this year)
Stock Grant ~35k (stock tanked though )
7% 401k match + 7% Defined Benefit Pension Contribution
9/80 work schedule (every other Friday off with 80 hours per-two weeks)

It's a fantastic gig if I can keep it through the downturn, but it's looking to be a tough year in the industry.

Yeah...doesn't look great for oil and gas or Texas in general. Abandon ship?

Anon poster from above...

Thing about oil is that it's a very cyclical industry. As a result, there are huge rewards if you have made it through a downturn and make it to the next upswing. You can get promoted very quickly and stock granted in the downturn can prove very lucrative. I suppose I could look for a job in another industry, but I would miss the big potential rewards on the upswing. Lawyers are in much better shape than the geologists and engineers if they do need to bail since legal skills are more transferable.

I think you should definitely stick with it. I think oil companies wont lay off until they absolutely have to (which should be a while before hitting in house counsel). I work biglaw in TX and thought about leaving the city (guessing you are in Houston as well), but decided to stay and hope to make it till times are good as well. It is a boom and bust industry and all the companies/firms know it. Sounds like you landed an awesome gig!

There's already been 3 rounds of layoffs. The first round was across the board, so it did hit legal- others were more from specific project cancellations. However, the layoffs are really to placate investors. They don't actually impact the bottom line all that much- oil is very capital intensive but not very personnel intensive. That's part of the reason why it can be a great gig- you aren't the big cost- that sky scraper sized oil platform attempting to perform rocket surgery 10,000 feet under water is the cost.

[Anonymous User]

Great info so far. Looking forward to more posts.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone with experience working in-house at a REIT focused on acquiring, renovating, and leasing residential property?

[Anonymous User]

I'd also be curious to know if anyone has done in-house from lit? I know it's less common than corp, but I've heard that many associates from my regional midsize firm go in house from lit - I'm very curious to know salary/lifestyle etc.

Thanks!

[Voxius]

I'm the Fund OP. Would prefer not to PM since people know me IRL and don't want to out my salary. I can answer any questions ITT.

I do more than just fund work; I also do securities/M&A/compliance/employment etc. I'm basically a jack of all trades.

When you say fund work, what do you mean? Like, 40 Act stuff? Trying to get a feel for what specialties seem to command the best inhouse salaries. Not planning to jump ship right now, but definitely good to keep options open in this industry...

Not so much 40 act but investment advisors act. I do have to know some 40 act because we need to check our exemptions quarterly. I think M&A would command the best in house options, especially if you also know securities law.

So how does advancement work? Is there much room to advance/up your pay or is it likely to be stagnant? I'd also be curious if you get to work on transactions (if it's pe)

[synergy]

I'm the Fund OP. Would prefer not to PM since people know me IRL and don't want to out my salary. I can answer any questions ITT.

I do more than just fund work; I also do securities/M&A/compliance/employment etc. I'm basically a jack of all trades.

When you say fund work, what do you mean? Like, 40 Act stuff? Trying to get a feel for what specialties seem to command the best inhouse salaries. Not planning to jump ship right now, but definitely good to keep options open in this industry...

Not so much 40 act but investment advisors act. I do have to know some 40 act because we need to check our exemptions quarterly. I think M&A would command the best in house options, especially if you also know securities law.

So how does advancement work? Is there much room to advance/up your pay or is it likely to be stagnant? I'd also be curious if you get to work on transactions (if it's pe)

Bump... OP, if you're still around, I'd really appreciate hearing about advancement in-house at a fund.

[KMart]

Just tagging for the future.

[Yea All Right]

Tagging. Thanks to OP for starting this thread and others for contributing.