Top Law Schools

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:What about Mayer Brown, I think they have a tiny office?

It is quite small. Don't have much (any) visibility in the market, at least not on the M&A side.

What about Corporate work, generally?

Can't really speak to corporate generally. I have not heard them mentioned by my friends in different departments, but that purely anecdotal.

Anonymous User wrote:Any insights on Jackson Walker Houston for transactions? I know they're a lower-tier regional and do very little if any energy transactions, but does that also mean that they're more insulated from the chaos at the top of the market (with all the New York firms coming in, etc.)?

Also - how is Norton Rose for transactions in Houston? I know they are more of a lit firm and that they aren't at the top-tier for corporate, but is their corporate practice at least mid-level for Houston?

Jackson Walker - My impression is that they do much smaller deals for less sophisticated clients. They seem well known/respected in the Texas market, but they do not get the top end, headline making deals. I know of at least one associate that lateraled to JW as a midlevel from one of VE/BB/LW/KE and recently lateraled back to different one of the top firms because they were basically bored doing the types of deals Jackson Walker does. A single anecdote, but the best insight I can offer.

NRF is solidly middle tier in the transactional hierarchy. We see them from time to time, and there are several large O&G companies that use NRF for most of their public company and capM work. I don't think it is accurate to describe them as "more of a lit firm", but they are unique in that they are the only historic Texas firm in Houston that still has a sizable lit section. Last I knew, their headcount was about equal between corporate and lit.

Would it be accurate to say that it's harder to get Dallas biglaw vs. Houston biglaw if you've never lived in either? Because Dallas has fewer openings and they care more about Dallas-specific ties versus broader Texas ties?

I can't speak for Houston, but I saw a fair share of non-Dallas and non-TX associates in the big Dallas firms. I would guess that the folks without any ties were less than 1/3 of the total number, but I doubt they were as low as 1/4.

However, the tieless folks did tend to be more senior (5+ years experience). The new classes seemed to be more laden with TX ties.

Anonymous User wrote:

Dallas biglaw associate here.

Would you mind sharing some insights about the Dallas market? Who are the top corp players (guessing HB, VE, Weil ... where do places like JD fit in)? Are certain firms more known for no offering than others?

Also curious about this.

Did you guys see the M&A deal count by law firm in the TX Lawbook for 2017?

Here are the rankings:
1. V&E
2. Sidley
3. AK
4. Jones Day
5. LW
6. Locke Lord
7. BB
8. Jackson Walker
9. HayBoo
10. Kirkland

Hoping for some advice - is it never reasonable to choose a "lower-ranked," more regional firm (think Locke Lord, Bracewell, Gardere) over a Kirkland/BB/V&E/Latham-type firm? I'm not necessarily interested in prestige, am hoping to stay in a firm for a long time, and would be interested in a better shot at partner.

It depends on what you want to practice and get out of your tenure at the firm. For at least corporate practice (of which i am most familiar), there is a vast gulf between the firms you mentioned and other regional firms. Go through the summer and see if you also like the vibe at whatever firm you'll be at. Don't sell yourself short. Remember that the people you clicked with as a 1L may very well be gone by the time you start (this happens a lot). Also, you will always be able to lateral from one of those firms to a regional, and the converse may not be possible. I'm an associate at one of those firms, and the firms we take laterals from are generally similarly situated, FWIW.

What kinds of grades at HYS/T6 are needed are the top firms for corporate (the types of firms the two previous posts mention like BB, Latham)? Does median/slightly below keep you in the running, or do you need top 1/3+?

Anonymous User wrote:What kinds of grades at HYS/T6 are needed are the top firms for corporate (the types of firms the two previous posts mention like BB, Latham)? Does median/slightly below keep you in the running, or do you need top 1/3+?

With Texas ties you'll definitely be in the running.

Anonymous User wrote:What kinds of grades at HYS/T6 are needed are the top firms for corporate (the types of firms the two previous posts mention like BB, Latham)? Does median/slightly below keep you in the running, or do you need top 1/3+?

Any grades are fine at HYS. CCN just about anything other than absolute bottom feeder will keep you in the running. Doesn't mean you will necessarily get an offer, but if you don't grades won't be the reason.

Hmm given the size of H and how relatively common H grades are in TX, I'd imagine that bottom feeder at H would be problematic for the top firms. But below median should be fine as long as it's not really far down. Y would be a different story, I've very rarely come across a Yale grad at the big firms, I imagine that the firms would love to have one. But definitely agree with the above poster in that this doesn't mean you'll necessary get the offer (fit, etc. are important), just that grades won't be what keep you out.

Is moving from NYC -> Dallas/Austin in corporate as a mid-level (3-5th year range) with no ties easy? Impossible? I have no perception of this. Recruiters advertise these jobs all the time but Im not sure if ties are highly important or basically irrelevant.

So for M&A, how do the tiers in Houston/Dallas shape up?

For Houston, it seems to be (from the posts above):

1) VE/LW/KE
2) BB/GDC/Sidley

Then maybe Akin, etc.?

Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

Anonymous User wrote:Is moving from NYC -> Dallas/Austin in corporate as a mid-level (3-5th year range) with no ties easy? Impossible? I have no perception of this. Recruiters advertise these jobs all the time but Im not sure if ties are highly important or basically irrelevant.

It shouldn’t be too hard in Dallas. There are a lot of firms looking. But be careful because not all firms match NYC bonuses.

Does anyone know if Kirkland Houston hires summers for litigation? I know that they have a very small but highly regarded litigation group... wondering if I would be wasting a bid on them if I'm only interested in litigation.

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

Gibson

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Dallas biglaw associate here.


Would you mind sharing some insights about the Dallas market? Who are the top corp players (guessing HB, VE, Weil ... where do places like JD fit in)? Are certain firms more known for no offering than others?


Also, any insights on Dallas lit?

My impression is that Dallas lit is much less boutique-dominated than Houston. Although McKool, etc are in town, Fulbright, Gibson, Sidley also all have very successful lit practices in Dallas. Not up to date with transactions though.

Prestige aside, which of these would be best to work for? Work is merely a means to an end and I'd like to make it the least uncomfortable that I possibly can.

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

Top 1/3 from a T6 is about the cutoff for those firms so you won’t be wasting a bid.

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know if Kirkland Houston hires summers for litigation? I know that they have a very small but highly regarded litigation group... wondering if I would be wasting a bid on them if I'm only interested in litigation.

Also curious about this.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

Gibson

I'm at BB but I think BB is the best firm for lit of the ones you listed.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

Gibson

I'm at BB but I think BB is the best firm for lit of the ones you listed.

Does BB Houston regularly hire a sizable chunk of SAs into their litigation team or are you referring to BB Dallas? For someone set on lit, is here a danger of ending up being slotted to corp after the SA?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

Gibson

I'm at BB but I think BB is the best firm for lit of the ones you listed.

Does BB Houston regularly hire a sizable chunk of SAs into their litigation team or are you referring to BB Dallas? For someone set on lit, is here a danger of ending up being slotted to corp after the SA?

I believe both Dallas and Houston hire a good number of SAs for litigation. As a summer you're in 1 or 2 practice groups and then generally will start in one of those groups. I don't think someone who was in lit as an SA would be slotted into corp without them requesting it.

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like most of the discussion has been focused on corp and less on lit. For Houston:

1. Would a non-hys T6 in the top 1/3 waste a bid by bidding a place like AZA/Reynolds Frizzell etc? What kinds of grades do you generally need?
2. Outside the "elite" boutiques, what are the best trad biglaw firms for lit? Seems like the biggest corp players (VE/BB/Latham/Kirk) don't really emphasize lit very much.

If the T6 by chance is UChicago, then you have a great shot. The firm is very Chicago-heavy. I got a screener (but not callback) from mass-mailing with below-median grades.