Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.
NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.
Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.
Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.
Not the same anon, but can concur I've heard the same thing about VE and NRF. I declined CBs with both--not worth the risk.
I am the anon 2 above, let me just confirm - I was saying the V&E stealth layoff rumor is not true. I have no clue what is going on at NRF, but if you want corporate, you are not going there anyways, so I figured people got my point.
In any case, I don't blame anyone for not taking callbacks at a specific place, I can see why people would be more cautious with the Houston market with energy down. In reality though, most of the corporate groups in Houston (at the top shops) seem pretty busy. You can avoid VE, but VE/BB/Latham are still the best options for corporate work in Houston, and BB Houston had a much higher no offer rate than VE from this summer in Houston.
I have a friend at V&E who said his corporate partner told him to expect to be slow until oil rebounds. There may be a few people that are still pre-downturn level busy, but my impression is from talking with friends there that unless you're one of those people (who are selected largely based on who they bro out with) you aren't getting great experience. Also have heard from multiple people of stealth layoffs at all offices, not just Houston. Just because they didn't no offer a ton of people, doesn't mean that those folks will have good work once they get there. It means they can afford their salaries and that they don't want a bad reputation in the market place because of high no offers. They got a lot of flack last summer for what a lot of people thought was a high no offer/cold offer rate, and probably just don't want to do that again.
Again, I am only talking about Houston. Do your "friends" work there, or is this another random "I heard a friend of a friend say"...
The Houston office is having a great year business wise (supposedly on pace for a record year), 100% summer offer, first TX firm to match 180k, there are no stealth layoffs (except maybe a couple under performers which definitely are not "stealth"). You're right, you should avoid.
First point -- I'm at one of BB/LW/KE in securities/corporate -- about every other deal I'm on is across from V&E. I think all of the top corporate shops in Houston are seeing increased activity. I know my May through August has been hell, as for many other associates in/around my class year.
Again, I'm not at V&E, but I'll still say that when it comes to securities/corporate work in the energy industry, I'll give them their props.
Go check out Texas LawBook and look at their deal count for M&A and Securites for 1st half of 2016 (
http://texaslawbook.net/corp-deal-track ... al-market/ (login required). Granted, all firms are a bit down from the highs of 2014, but V&E is still very much in/leading the game. I don't know the total number of corporate/securities partners and attorneys at V&E, so you can keep that in mind when comparing firms (i.e., LW/KE have around ~80 or so in its office (and that includes their finance/bankruptcy folks), and V&E has [X] in corporate, so LW/KE won't have the bandwidth to work on the same number of corporate/securities deals).
Second point - I'm consistently surprised about how people act so shocked every year at the number of no-offers from NRF. Their Dallas office has consistently no-offered between 25-33+% of their class. Haven't looked lately at Houston's numbers, but you can check on NALP directory. Morale of the story: unless you're dying to do NRF litigation and have a second half split lined up, don't go to NRF for your summer. They're not a firm that just gives no-offers because they're "well-deserved"--it's a systematic thing. At least for corporate, there's enough stronger firms out there that give 90-100% offers each year that it's silly to gamble for a full-time offer a firm that's seen its better days.