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Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Fortune 500 company - IP Attorney
Small town (<100K people); >1hr from nearest large city
2017 law graduate (lower tier) + 15 years related non-law experience
$145K + 30% bonus
50-60 hours; average stress; flexible hours; independent; 4 weeks vacation

Jealous of big law and partner salaries; but liking my work-life balance more than the $$$.

Wait, this is a fantastic outcome for someone who would be a first-year from a lower tier law school. Probably making the same net effective salary as biglaw if you're in a very low COL area.

I guess the COL matters but its not as cheap here as it should be. Of course, way cheaper than NYC. My non-law experience is the reason I have this job so a degree from a lower tier law school is less of a factor than it would be for most people.

egglayer2012 wrote:

ATLien2016 wrote:

egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends

Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.

It's difficult but doable, assuming my income-based loan repayment plan works as it should when I file taxes (never going to pay more than the minimum). The hardest part is the city/state taxes on top of federal withholdings, which brings my take-home down to around 40k. Having a roommate and commuting from Brooklyn helps with costs.

I was curious too. I used to live in NYC and was wondering if a return is manageable. Are you thinking about staying long-term?

My $.02

b290 wrote:

egglayer2012 wrote:

ATLien2016 wrote:

egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends

Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.

It's difficult but doable, assuming my income-based loan repayment plan works as it should when I file taxes (never going to pay more than the minimum). The hardest part is the city/state taxes on top of federal withholdings, which brings my take-home down to around 40k. Having a roommate and commuting from Brooklyn helps with costs.

I was curious too. I used to live in NYC and was wondering if a return is manageable. Are you thinking about staying long-term?

My $.02

I can pretty much just break even if I'm frugal. It's def not a long-term arrangement, as I'm just staying on now for resume building and then lateraling or finding something in local/state government for more stability and a fixed pay scale.

egglayer2012 wrote:

b290 wrote:

egglayer2012 wrote:

ATLien2016 wrote:

egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends

Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.

It's difficult but doable, assuming my income-based loan repayment plan works as it should when I file taxes (never going to pay more than the minimum). The hardest part is the city/state taxes on top of federal withholdings, which brings my take-home down to around 40k. Having a roommate and commuting from Brooklyn helps with costs.

I was curious too. I used to live in NYC and was wondering if a return is manageable. Are you thinking about staying long-term?

My $.02

I can pretty much just break even if I'm frugal. It's def not a long-term arrangement, as I'm just staying on now for resume building and then lateraling or finding something in local/state government for more stability and a fixed pay scale.

Makes sense. I was referring more staying in NYC to live. Brooklyn's def overpriced (worse than Manhattan) - you can get the same in Queens, and even NJ, for much less. Even the Bronx is an option now. With your salary range, you can get a rent stabilized place too (whether it's available is another story).

I could see the budget. Doable, but definitely no fun. You won't get much of a salary bump working for the CIty (or the State), but the benefits are still ridiculous. Probably the best in the country (outside of the Feds). The City/State route also means you'll get rid of student loan payments after a decade.

My $.02

Salary: $145K + 15K bonus + 15K stock + 401K match
Location: secondary market
Position: commercial transactions at F500 company
Experience: 4 years in biglaw corporate/finance practice, major market
Hours: 9-5/6, no weekends

I never wanted to stay in biglaw for longer than 3 years, so made the jump as soon as I could. Ended up taking the first job I was offered because it was a really good fit. Got exactly what I wanted in terms of work/life balance, but making less money obviously sucks a bit. Best parts of the job are no billables, nothing is truly urgent (generally), don't ever need to respond to anything past business hours (generally), weekends are truly weekends. Worst parts are corporate bureaucracy, compensation, work is not that challenging, don't like the market as much as previous market.

Salary: $175K + 15% bonus + 15% profit share (with a long multi-year vesting schedule)
Location: Midwest (Kansas City, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Milwaukee)
Position: AGC focusing on transactional work at large private company
Experience: 5 years in biglaw transactions/banking/real estate practice, same Midwestern market
Hours: 9-6, some evenings/weekends depending on dealflow but I gather that it's somewhat rare.

Position: Deputy District Attorney
Experience: 1 year
Hours: 8-6, Weekend work when I am in trial
Salary: $65k, great benefits
Location: Rural California

Tech Company
Position: In-House Legal Compliance Manager (Export Controls and Economic Sanctions)
Experience: 3-4 years out of law school
Salary: 120k + 10% Bonus + 15k RSUs + 401k with generous match + benefits (dental, vision, and medical)
Location: Low COL Metropolitan Market

The hours are usually between 9:30 and 5:00 pm and I work in a really relaxed work environment.

Position: Public Defender
Experience: 1 year
Hours: 8-5, Anything past 40 hours accrues as vacation (comp) time
Salary: $52k + Loan Repayment ($2k month for me) = $76,000
Benefits: 10 days paid vacation, 15 paid holidays, full medical, vision, and dental with no premium, 401k,
Location: Rural Texas

Finances are tough, but quality of life is good and the work is engaging and fun. Five minute commute to work. No dress code when not in court, and no one bats an eye if you order a margarita at lunch.

Position: Associate at Plaintiff/Union Side Labor & Employment Firm
(class actions, administrative hearings, arbitrations, appellate work)
Experience: 3 years
Hours: 9-6 plus occasional late nights and 0-3 weekend days per month
Salary: 92.5 K
Benefits: 4 weeks vacation, 12 holidays, unlimited sick, 401K with matching
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA

Position: Corporate/Transactional Associate at Mid-sized firm in NJ
Experience: 1 year
Hours: 9:30-6 plus occasional later nights. No weekends
Salary: 85K + 20% commission on all legal work and 10% bonus on 1400 billable
Benefits: 2 weeks vacation, 12 holidays, unlimited sick, 401K with matching, full medical, dental and vision
Location: NJ

Does anyone have advice about salary negotiations? Don't want to jinx anything but an in-house job I'm interested in (and have had final interviews for) has quite a low salary and I'm wondering how people normally handle this. What % is a reasonable amount to ask for an increase in the negotiation process? Any strategies or tactics that should be used? I assume if they want you they'll be flexible, but what is realistic? Also, if you negotiate too hard and you actually get the salary you want, does that start your relationship off on a bad foot with your new bosses? Does it change the expectations that people have for you (in that they might think, she wanted an increase of X% so she better be worth it!)?

waytoplant wrote:Does anyone have advice about salary negotiations? Don't want to jinx anything but an in-house job I'm interested in (and have had final interviews for) has quite a low salary and I'm wondering how people normally handle this. What % is a reasonable amount to ask for an increase in the negotiation process? Any strategies or tactics that should be used? I assume if they want you they'll be flexible, but what is realistic? Also, if you negotiate too hard and you actually get the salary you want, does that start your relationship off on a bad foot with your new bosses? Does it change the expectations that people have for you (in that they might think, she wanted an increase of X% so she better be worth it!)?

Really depends on the company, culture and industry. At the most extreme position, some companies will cease negotiations if they think your expectations are out of line.

Keep in mind two things:

You aren’t being paid based on experience only; the company is trying to slot you into a group. They do not want to pay you more than AGC Larla who has been there for 10 years and will have more responsibility than you.

If you really want to maximize your value you really need to be willing to say no to this job. I turned down one job that I really wanted Over low pay and they couldn’t budge. I initially turned down a second job for the same reasons and that job came back with a much better offer that I accepted (and left big law for).

If you’re looking for a reasonable ask, I don’t think most employers would be offended by 15% more than what they offered you.

Anonymous User wrote:

waytoplant wrote:Does anyone have advice about salary negotiations? Don't want to jinx anything but an in-house job I'm interested in (and have had final interviews for) has quite a low salary and I'm wondering how people normally handle this. What % is a reasonable amount to ask for an increase in the negotiation process? Any strategies or tactics that should be used? I assume if they want you they'll be flexible, but what is realistic? Also, if you negotiate too hard and you actually get the salary you want, does that start your relationship off on a bad foot with your new bosses? Does it change the expectations that people have for you (in that they might think, she wanted an increase of X% so she better be worth it!)?

Really depends on the company, culture and industry. At the most extreme position, some companies will cease negotiations if they think your expectations are out of line.

Keep in mind two things:

You aren’t being paid based on experience only; the company is trying to slot you into a group. They do not want to pay you more than AGC Larla who has been there for 10 years and will have more responsibility than you.

If you really want to maximize your value you really need to be willing to say no to this job. I turned down one job that I really wanted Over low pay and they couldn’t budge. I initially turned down a second job for the same reasons and that job came back with a much better offer that I accepted (and left big law for).

If you’re looking for a reasonable ask, I don’t think most employers would be offended by 15% more than what they offered you.

This is good advice. I had a similar situation and went the route of telling them I enjoyed meeting the team and really wanted to make the move, but had to do what was right for my family. I told them my biglaw comp that year and the next, and then provided them my absolute bottom line number and said, I would join if they could get there, but could not justify taking a lower salary because of where I was in life. I think they appreciated that I didn't try and do a back and forth game with them, and came in right off with my bottom line. But like the above poster said, I was clear that I would pass on the offer if they couldn't get there and wasn't looking for them to counter.

Glad the salary negotiation thing came up.

Any tips for someone dealing with a BigFed offer in terms of negotiations within the payband? I.e. getting step 7 instead of step 1 etc. ?

Anonymous User wrote:Glad the salary negotiation thing came up.

Any tips for someone dealing with a BigFed offer in terms of negotiations within the payband? I.e. getting step 7 instead of step 1 etc. ?

Personally I have never had any option to negotiate, but if you’re coming out of biglaw maybe that will make a difference (I was not, either time I got a BigFed offer).

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Glad the salary negotiation thing came up.

Any tips for someone dealing with a BigFed offer in terms of negotiations within the payband? I.e. getting step 7 instead of step 1 etc. ?

Personally I have never had any option to negotiate, but if you’re coming out of biglaw maybe that will make a difference (I was not, either time I got a BigFed offer).

No same situation. So you're saying that you ended up having to accept whatever offer they give you? Did you try to negotiate or did you decide to just accept the offers on the spot?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Glad the salary negotiation thing came up.

Any tips for someone dealing with a BigFed offer in terms of negotiations within the payband? I.e. getting step 7 instead of step 1 etc. ?

Personally I have never had any option to negotiate, but if you’re coming out of biglaw maybe that will make a difference (I was not, either time I got a BigFed offer).

No same situation. So you're saying that you ended up having to accept whatever offer they give you? Did you try to negotiate or did you decide to just accept the offers on the spot?

TBF, I didn’t try to negotiate, mostly because the salary was presented as what it was, not as any kind of offer/opening gambit. I mean, the first offer I got, I had to ask for time to talk to my husband before accepting (by which I mean like half an hour), and the person nearly forgot to tell me what the salary was. Maybe that’s on me and I could have negotiated, but I don’t know anyone else who has ever been able to. The only possible hint of it I’ve seen suggested, as noted above, was for people who were actually making more (in private practice) in the jobs they were leaving, which wasn’t my situation.

So all that said, I don’t imagine there’s any harm in asking if there’s any room to negotiate the step (and I would just ask that directly when you get the offer, or now if you have the offer already), but I would be prepared for the answer to be no.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Glad the salary negotiation thing came up.

Any tips for someone dealing with a BigFed offer in terms of negotiations within the payband? I.e. getting step 7 instead of step 1 etc. ?

Personally I have never had any option to negotiate, but if you’re coming out of biglaw maybe that will make a difference (I was not, either time I got a BigFed offer).

No same situation. So you're saying that you ended up having to accept whatever offer they give you? Did you try to negotiate or did you decide to just accept the offers on the spot?

TBF, I didn’t try to negotiate, mostly because the salary was presented as what it was, not as any kind of offer/opening gambit. I mean, the first offer I got, I had to ask for time to talk to my husband before accepting (by which I mean like half an hour), and the person nearly forgot to tell me what the salary was. Maybe that’s on me and I could have negotiated, but I don’t know anyone else who has ever been able to. The only possible hint of it I’ve seen suggested, as noted above, was for people who were actually making more (in private practice) in the jobs they were leaving, which wasn’t my situation.

So all that said, I don’t imagine there’s any harm in asking if there’s any room to negotiate the step (and I would just ask that directly when you get the offer, or now if you have the offer already), but I would be prepared for the answer to be no.

Thanks. I notice that a number hasn't been given yet so I want to at least give it a shot.

Position: Attorney with a state government agency
Experience: 0 years. Just got admitted to the bar.
Hours: 8 am to 5 pm
Salary: $70,000
Benefits: Not sure since my job starts in January, but government benefits are great from what I've been told
Location: Northern California

Salary: $85,000 plus a $2,000 bonus
Location: NJ
Position: Litigation Associate at a midsize insurance defense firm doing slip and falls, MVA, and some school law
Experience: 1 year after clerkship
Hours: 2400 target but I don't think many people hit that.
Other: Benefits blow- very expensive health insurance (and raised costs 5% this year) and 50% 401(k) match. Old office.

Salary: $110,000 + 10K bonus
Location: Coastal capitol city but not major market
Position: Litigation associate
Experience: 4th year
Hours: 2,000 minimum; on pace for 2200

Finance Manager at a Top 50 PE Firm
NYC Area
~$150k base/30% Bonus
Coinvest on select deals
3% 401k Matching
Free bf, lunch and dinner/uber if working past 7pm
Health care is pretty cheap for me and dependents


Work hours are mostly 9-7ish and 8-9ish around deadlines. Usually have to work two or three weekends around quarter end. Probably stick around the industry in hopes of making it to CFO and get carried interest or equity. It's somewhat easy to move around and get a better role if you're willing to live or move around big cities. For me, I levered that i'm a CPA and worked BIG4 for a couple of years to get into the industry. Sure, it's not Big Law, but i'm making decent money, 0 student debt and work substantially less. FWIW, I had a lot of options but couldn't take them because of some unforeseen personal things while at undergrad.

Firm: 11-15 attorneys
Location: Mountain West in city of ~100k
Area: Commercial litigation
Billing requirement: Effectively about 1600 - though all hours count even if written off.
Salary: 90k if minimum hit - bonuses for extra - about 25k if I hit about 1825 hours (there is enough work that I usually hit 155-160 monthly)
Bennies: 60% of insurance premium paid, 3% 401k matching
Experience: 2nd year
Occasionally work late or on weekends but not often. Usually just 830-530.
I graduated near the bottom of a Tier 1 (30-50) school in a flyover state.

Anonymous User wrote:Finance Manager at a Top 50 PE Firm
NYC Area
~$150k base/30% Bonus
Coinvest on select deals
3% 401k Matching
Free bf, lunch and dinner/uber if working past 7pm
Health care is pretty cheap for me and dependents

Can you PM me?