Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had? Forum

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JCougar

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by JCougar » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:46 pm

Although I never got Biglaw, I worked on the business side of things before law school. I can confirm that getting a law degree puts your resume into the trash pile if you ever try to get back in the business-side of things. Most advanced HR departments realize that law school doesn't teach you very many (any?) useful skills, and it's more of a black hole on your resume than an embellishment.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/cult ... annot.html
In my experience hunting for a nonlegal job, your J.D. hurts more than it help,” says Andre LaMorgia, a Brooklyn Law School graduate and trade compliance analyst in Philadelphia. In its employment stats, the American Bar Association considers jobs like LaMorgia’s to be “J.D. Advantage” positions, meaning a law degree should give you a boost. But LaMorgia says that if he didn’t have a friend who worked at the company, “my résumé would have gone right into the garbage can.”
That’s sensible, considering that human resource managers outside the legal world treat a J.D. as the scarlet acronym. “Generally, I imagine they’re going to be too expensive with not enough relevant experience to justify the salary,” says Maureen Chu, an HR and operations manager in D.C. She believes that law school gives candidates a competitive disadvantage. “It’s lost time. Whatever you learned in law school is not useful to what we need. So every other candidate has three years on you.”
In the last few months, I’ve interviewed for jobs at a nonprofit, a think tank, and a PR firm among other places of business. I know from personal experience that the first question a lawyer will hear in a nonlegal job interview is, “Why don’t you want to practice law?” My answer to that question always elicits, “Well, you know we don’t pay as much as a law firm, right?” A law degree makes an otherwise qualified candidate look expensive, and often carries a rotten whiff of failure. And other than the New York Mets, no employer wants to hire an expensive failure.
Since I've gotten my JD, I've been instantly rejected for jobs for which I would have been highly competitive before law school.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
krads153 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:Most entry level programming gigs definitely do not start at 100k
We already went through this in this thread - the average starting salary is 66k for CS. However, if you work in the Bay Area, the average is higher. And frankly out of my undergrad (which admittedly has top ranked computer science and engineering programs), the average salary is 100k starting straight out of undergrad for CS. And most of these grads probably don't have any undergrad loans, or minimal.

The hours are also better in programming on average, and a lot of the bigger companies pay biglaw salaries or more plus equity.
This is the best job I've ever had. Even though being on a case with a crazy midlevel can mean you have to work 18 hours a day every day doing work nobody will ever read and leave you less than 100% certain that you won't be beaten, there are perks that make it better than any blue collar job. For one, you're indoors in a comfortable office with an endless supply of water.

Second, the odds of confronting violence are about 0% while there's always at least some chance you'll confront violence going from house to house or driving a cab. I think most taxi drivers have been knifed at least once, and regardless of which partner I present my work to, I know walking into their office that no matter how bad it goes, it's very unlikely she'll stab me. And even if she does stab me, I now have health insurance so it's the best of both worlds.

Third, in other jobs I've had, the boss might buy the workers a pie of pizza if they're working 12 hours on Christmas Eve. In big law, you can basically get a huge dinner every night you work 12 hours, and it doesn't have to be limited to 99/cent a slice pizza. There's also the money which is good, and the fact that the overwhelming majority of your peers are not ex-felons.
Fuck you, I actually just laughed out loud at this when I read the part about partners not stabbing you....as a partner was passing my office.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Prospective cheery idiotic big law 2L with a 4 year background as a D1 athlete here. Please burst my bubble.

Does anyone here have a athletic background? Or did anyone find the biglaw exhaustion experience related to anything they had ever done before? I feel slightly more prepared to do this job because most of my life has been dedicated to something that no one cares about is very tedious and physically exhausting. In addition I am quite used to being called any sort of name that has ever been created, I doubt any partner is scarier than my former coaches.
Not sure your sport, but after being in the locker room getting screamed at by a D1 hockey coach, no one's screaming seems that bad. I was learning new combinations of vulgar words that I'd never even imagined possible. Even Bob Knight seems relatively calm.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by ballouttacontrol » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Prospective cheery idiotic big law 2L with a 4 year background as a D1 athlete here. Please burst my bubble.

Does anyone here have a athletic background? Or did anyone find the biglaw exhaustion experience related to anything they had ever done before? I feel slightly more prepared to do this job because most of my life has been dedicated to something that no one cares about is very tedious and physically exhausting. In addition I am quite used to being called any sort of name that has ever been created, I doubt any partner is scarier than my former coaches.
Not sure your sport, but after being in the locker room getting screamed at by a D1 hockey coach, no one's screaming seems that bad. I was learning new combinations of vulgar words that I'd never even imagined possible. Even Bob Knight seems relatively calm.
I would take the direct yelling of a coach versus the bitch made passive aggressive comments that has been my much more prevalent in my big firm experience.

Only screamer I've ever met IRL was when I was a para before law school

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by anon3030 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:38 pm

I worked for five years in an upper operations management position in a major market city that paid slightly more than 6 figures with bonuses before I went to law school. I was responsible for managing a decent amount of employees. Overall, I find biglaw to be a little bit more demanding, but barely. People that work for you need just as much attention as clients. My previous position also required that I be available 24/7 in case of emergencies, but I was able to plan my time off a little better before.

The larger salary and guaranteed annual pay increases in big law are well worth it. The stress of negotiating a new raise every year was annoying. I agree with the previous posts that most people who complain about big law being horrible are those who never had significant work experience. All jobs that pay well will be demanding and big law is no exception.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:43 pm

how many years at biglaw should one acquire before it is safe to lateral and not look like a junior associate noob?

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Desert Fox

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Desert Fox » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:how many years at biglaw should one acquire before it is safe to lateral and not look like a junior associate noob?
When you are a third year (which is really only 2 under your belt), but you can look earlier. Sometimes people want noobs.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:40 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how many years at biglaw should one acquire before it is safe to lateral and not look like a junior associate noob?
When you are a third year (which is really only 2 under your belt), but you can look earlier. Sometimes people want noobs.
why would bigfirms want noobs? wouldnt they just want another SA instead? cheaper and can try them out first.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Desert Fox » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how many years at biglaw should one acquire before it is safe to lateral and not look like a junior associate noob?
When you are a third year (which is really only 2 under your belt), but you can look earlier. Sometimes people want noobs.
why would bigfirms want noobs? wouldnt they just want another SA instead? cheaper and can try them out first.
It takes over 2 years to hire a SA for full time. You start looking in August of year N. They don't start working until September of year N+2.

You can hire a lateral in two months.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:51 pm

1 year in and I really like it but hours have not been too insane yet. I can certainly see how the increased workload, and particularly increased responsibility, would take its toll. I've worked in fast food for $6.50/hour though.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:57 pm

The analysis revealed that three engagement elements are vital to reducing or repairing workplace burnout among workers: receiving regular praise and recognition for good work, having the materials and equipment to deliver quality work, and feeling that their opinions count at work.
http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/1 ... oblem.aspx

The above is a quote from the linked gallup article discussing burnout at work (in Germany, but nevertheless). At your average biglaw firm, the dearth of these three items is significant.

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Desert Fox

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Desert Fox » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:1 year in and I really like it but hours have not been too insane yet. I can certainly see how the increased workload, and particularly increased responsibility, would take its toll. I've worked in fast food for $6.50/hour though.
I used to push carts from teh grocery store parking lot inside on hot days and cold winter days for 5.90 an hour. Objectively better life than biglaw.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by dixiecupdrinking » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1 year in and I really like it but hours have not been too insane yet. I can certainly see how the increased workload, and particularly increased responsibility, would take its toll. I've worked in fast food for $6.50/hour though.
I used to push carts from teh grocery store parking lot inside on hot days and cold winter days for 5.90 an hour. Objectively better life than biglaw.
Same and I would definitely do this for $180k over biglaw no question. Same hours even.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by ballouttacontrol » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:35 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1 year in and I really like it but hours have not been too insane yet. I can certainly see how the increased workload, and particularly increased responsibility, would take its toll. I've worked in fast food for $6.50/hour though.
I used to push carts from teh grocery store parking lot inside on hot days and cold winter days for 5.90 an hour. Objectively better life than biglaw.
Same and I would definitely do this for $180k over biglaw no question. Same hours even.
Nothing's stopping you. If you have debt, go in ibr and enjoy $0 payments

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by dixiecupdrinking » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:12 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1 year in and I really like it but hours have not been too insane yet. I can certainly see how the increased workload, and particularly increased responsibility, would take its toll. I've worked in fast food for $6.50/hour though.
I used to push carts from teh grocery store parking lot inside on hot days and cold winter days for 5.90 an hour. Objectively better life than biglaw.
Same and I would definitely do this for $180k over biglaw no question. Same hours even.
Nothing's stopping you. If you have debt, go in ibr and enjoy $0 payments
Cool, where can I make $180k pushing carts?

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:43 pm

anon3030 wrote:I worked for five years in an upper operations management position in a major market city that paid slightly more than 6 figures with bonuses before I went to law school. I was responsible for managing a decent amount of employees. Overall, I find biglaw to be a little bit more demanding, but barely. People that work for you need just as much attention as clients. My previous position also required that I be available 24/7 in case of emergencies, but I was able to plan my time off a little better before.

The larger salary and guaranteed annual pay increases in big law are well worth it. The stress of negotiating a new raise every year was annoying. I agree with the previous posts that most people who complain about big law being horrible are those who never had significant work experience. All jobs that pay well will be demanding and big law is no exception.
Were you doing paperwork nonstop for 12 hours a day in your previous job? The hours and unpredictability aren't the the only things that are bad in biglaw. It's the fact that you're literally paper pushing for 60 to 80 hours a week that's soul-crushing.

If your prior job is that similar to biglaw, then both your previous job and biglaw are awful soul crushing jobs. HTH.

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by ballouttacontrol » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:01 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1 year in and I really like it but hours have not been too insane yet. I can certainly see how the increased workload, and particularly increased responsibility, would take its toll. I've worked in fast food for $6.50/hour though.
I used to push carts from teh grocery store parking lot inside on hot days and cold winter days for 5.90 an hour. Objectively better life than biglaw.
Same and I would definitely do this for $180k over biglaw no question. Same hours even.
Nothing's stopping you. If you have debt, go in ibr and enjoy $0 payments
Cool, where can I make $180k pushing carts?
Oh misunderstood. Who the fuck wouldn't. Minimum wage jobs are the chillest

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anon3030

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Re: Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had?

Post by anon3030 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anon3030 wrote:I worked for five years in an upper operations management position in a major market city that paid slightly more than 6 figures with bonuses before I went to law school. I was responsible for managing a decent amount of employees. Overall, I find biglaw to be a little bit more demanding, but barely. People that work for you need just as much attention as clients. My previous position also required that I be available 24/7 in case of emergencies, but I was able to plan my time off a little better before.

The larger salary and guaranteed annual pay increases in big law are well worth it. The stress of negotiating a new raise every year was annoying. I agree with the previous posts that most people who complain about big law being horrible are those who never had significant work experience. All jobs that pay well will be demanding and big law is no exception.
Were you doing paperwork nonstop for 12 hours a day in your previous job? The hours and unpredictability aren't the the only things that are bad in biglaw. It's the fact that you're literally paper pushing for 60 to 80 hours a week that's soul-crushing.

If your prior job is that similar to biglaw, then both your previous job and biglaw are awful soul crushing jobs. HTH.
Good point. I was not pushing paper, and I can see myself getting burnt out doing that pretty soon.

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