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New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
A new lawyer in my office in his first year texted me claiming something MASSIVE was happening in court on one of our shared cases. I was already on the phone with opposing counsel about it before he texted me again and I realized he was kidding.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
Anonymous User wrote:A new lawyer in my office in his first year texted me claiming something MASSIVE was happening in court on one of our shared cases. I was already on the phone with opposing counsel about it before he texted me again and I realized he was kidding.
what...
- rpupkin
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
Wait . . . you called opposing counsel based on a text from a first year?Anonymous User wrote:A new lawyer in my office in his first year texted me claiming something MASSIVE was happening in court on one of our shared cases. I was already on the phone with opposing counsel about it before he texted me again and I realized he was kidding.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
I'm not in biglaw, so first years actually do real lawyer stuff where I work. We were the only two on this case, and I wasn't in court for it because I'm in a different office.rpupkin wrote:Wait . . . you called opposing counsel based on a text from a first year?Anonymous User wrote:A new lawyer in my office in his first year texted me claiming something MASSIVE was happening in court on one of our shared cases. I was already on the phone with opposing counsel about it before he texted me again and I realized he was kidding.
If it makes you feel any better I'm not sure which one of us ended up feeling like the bigger jackass.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
Reviving the dead.
- foundingfather
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
I fck up all the time but notice it happens way more often when I'm getting little sleep. nothing too big though or I would've been fired already.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
There are a couple of transactions I've worked on that are missing a CYA document that our client should have signed absolving us of certain liabilities
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
This just happened and I’m p much having a panic attack. I made a stupid mistake on a subpoena that went out that meant we had to re-serve it. Ultimately the only consequence is that the docs will be produced a few weeks later than originally intended but I feel like an idiot and I’m sure the partner is pissed at me
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
In the early days of my practice, I once wrote this memo for a partner on whether a corporate client's policies were consistent with a new state law. In the memo, I said that one of the policies was inconsistent and should be changed asap. Partner gives the memo the green light and distributes to the client. Client reads the memo, freaks out about my comment because apparently they received some separate instructions from the state that essentially said this type of policy was OK to keep. Client staff wants to have a meeting and partner tells me to look up the state instructions and prep him for why the client is mistaken about the instructions.I do the research and lo and behold, the state's instructions are correct. For whatever stupid reason I misread the new state law and did the wrong analysis. To make matters worse, I did this research the night before the meeting and partner didn't learn about it until in the morning with a couple of hours to spare. Partner had to scramble and make up some lame excuse for what we said about that policy in the memo. Needless to say, he was not pleased. Definitely the biggest fuck up ever. But now, whenever I think about this, I can laugh at my own stupidity because I know I won't make the same mistake again. It's okay to feel like an idiot for a couple of days, but just know that everyone makes mistakes; what makes a difference is the lesson you learn from them. Own your mistakes, move on, and never do it again. It will be fine.Turd_Ferguson wrote:This just happened and I’m p much having a panic attack. I made a stupid mistake on a subpoena that went out that meant we had to re-serve it. Ultimately the only consequence is that the docs will be produced a few weeks later than originally intended but I feel like an idiot and I’m sure the partner is pissed at me
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
It surprises me that some partners (like the one that gave the green light) do not ask younger associates to walk them through their analysis (including the rules/regulations/statutes/text of the case) with more frequency. Even as a 5th year I show my partners how I arrive at a conclusion based on my reading of whatever I'm asked to interpret. Now if you miss something entirely, that's a different story.Anonymous User wrote:In the early days of my practice, I once wrote this memo for a partner on whether a corporate client's policies were consistent with a new state law. In the memo, I said that one of the policies was inconsistent and should be changed asap. Partner gives the memo the green light and distributes to the client. Client reads the memo, freaks out about my comment because apparently they received some separate instructions from the state that essentially said this type of policy was OK to keep. Client staff wants to have a meeting and partner tells me to look up the state instructions and prep him for why the client is mistaken about the instructions.I do the research and lo and behold, the state's instructions are correct. For whatever stupid reason I misread the new state law and did the wrong analysis. To make matters worse, I did this research the night before the meeting and partner didn't learn about it until in the morning with a couple of hours to spare. Partner had to scramble and make up some lame excuse for what we said about that policy in the memo. Needless to say, he was not pleased. Definitely the biggest fuck up ever. But now, whenever I think about this, I can laugh at my own stupidity because I know I won't make the same mistake again. It's okay to feel like an idiot for a couple of days, but just know that everyone makes mistakes; what makes a difference is the lesson you learn from them. Own your mistakes, move on, and never do it again. It will be fine.Turd_Ferguson wrote:This just happened and I’m p much having a panic attack. I made a stupid mistake on a subpoena that went out that meant we had to re-serve it. Ultimately the only consequence is that the docs will be produced a few weeks later than originally intended but I feel like an idiot and I’m sure the partner is pissed at me
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
You're not guaranteed to get fired, but you committed a number of entirely avoidable junior associate cardinal sins:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
1. not pinging the partner (by forwarding the 1:30pm client email) once the client followed up;
2. not checking with a senior associate who has experience with the client (mentioned by the partner);
3. not CC'ing the partner on the email to the client (when in doubt, CC partner); and
4. not telling the partner you've already sent the client an email (big dishonesty red flag).
The 4th one is absolutely the biggest issue though. I'd say dishonesty is the number one reason for firing junior associates. This is entirely ignoring the substantive errors in your response to the client. Juniors are expected to make substantive errors. That's why their work always gets reviewed.
If you're not fired, you're on super thin ice.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
lord have mercy. you are fearless lol.Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
This seems a little extreme. Don't get me wrong, I agree with 99% of what you said, especially #4. You need to own up to anything once you realize it was a mistake and will impact anything (in other words, don't apologize for a typo in an email, unless it's a draft email that will go to the client, then definitely point it out). But if you're at a big firm and this is like month 6, I doubt you're on that thin ice. If you do it again you're fucked... maybe that means you're on thin ice haha.LitBoutiqueAssociate wrote:You're not guaranteed to get fired, but you committed a number of entirely avoidable junior associate cardinal sins:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
1. not pinging the partner (by forwarding the 1:30pm client email) once the client followed up;
2. not checking with a senior associate who has experience with the client (mentioned by the partner);
3. not CC'ing the partner on the email to the client (when in doubt, CC partner); and
4. not telling the partner you've already sent the client an email (big dishonesty red flag).
The 4th one is absolutely the biggest issue though. I'd say dishonesty is the number one reason for firing junior associates. This is entirely ignoring the substantive errors in your response to the client. Juniors are expected to make substantive errors. That's why their work always gets reviewed.
If you're not fired, you're on super thin ice.
Just try to be careful. Nobody can get that mad at you for pinging them too many times. It feels SO uncomfortable, but part of the job is managing up and managing clients. Dust yourself off and take a few moments before you send emails to clients/partners to think about how it'll play out from their point of view.
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- LaLiLuLeLo
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
Nothing about this rises to the level of being fired or “super thin ice”LitBoutiqueAssociate wrote:You're not guaranteed to get fired, but you committed a number of entirely avoidable junior associate cardinal sins:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
1. not pinging the partner (by forwarding the 1:30pm client email) once the client followed up;
2. not checking with a senior associate who has experience with the client (mentioned by the partner);
3. not CC'ing the partner on the email to the client (when in doubt, CC partner); and
4. not telling the partner you've already sent the client an email (big dishonesty red flag).
The 4th one is absolutely the biggest issue though. I'd say dishonesty is the number one reason for firing junior associates. This is entirely ignoring the substantive errors in your response to the client. Juniors are expected to make substantive errors. That's why their work always gets reviewed.
If you're not fired, you're on super thin ice.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
If you were fired I'd be shocked, but its really poor judgement and that partner will probably hold it against you. Here's some advice that I got when I was a junior that really helped put stuff into perspective:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
As a junior, your clients are senior associates and partners. Even if clients want stuff from you directly, you always go to senior lawyers before doing anything.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
I agree that it's most likely the anon isn't going to be fired, but I've heard horror stories of junior associates getting fired for saying they proofread a doc but didn't, and the client easily caught multiple errors.
The errors were, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant, but evidently that was at least a "last straw" which triggered firing.
I hope anon doesn't get fired. Just noting that honesty and communication--to the point of excess--are some of the few things expected of juniors. Ability to write flawless tax comments is not one of them.
The only time I emailed a client w/o a CC to the partner was when the client sent me a personal email "welcome to the team" (probably their personal management style), and I sent back a generic "thanks, happy to be part of the team" response. Aside from situations like that, I'd say it's a rule of thumb to 100% of the time CC the partner--usually it's the entire team list.
The errors were, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant, but evidently that was at least a "last straw" which triggered firing.
I hope anon doesn't get fired. Just noting that honesty and communication--to the point of excess--are some of the few things expected of juniors. Ability to write flawless tax comments is not one of them.
The only time I emailed a client w/o a CC to the partner was when the client sent me a personal email "welcome to the team" (probably their personal management style), and I sent back a generic "thanks, happy to be part of the team" response. Aside from situations like that, I'd say it's a rule of thumb to 100% of the time CC the partner--usually it's the entire team list.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
One tip for sending something to a client when your senior hasn't reviewed - just say so. "See attached subject to XYZ's review. He should have any additional comments to you shortly, but I wanted to get this in front of you in the interest of time."
Some partners still won't like that, but at least you cover yourself somewhat.
Some partners still won't like that, but at least you cover yourself somewhat.
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- trebekismyhero
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
While I agree that the junior is likely not going to get fired, the partner is definitely going to hold this against them. LitBoutique is exactly right on all the ways that OP made poor judgment calls. I think it is fair to say they're on thin ice cause they definitely can't fuck up like this again. If they generally do good work and this was a one time issue it will be fineLaLiLuLeLo wrote:Nothing about this rises to the level of being fired or “super thin ice”LitBoutiqueAssociate wrote:You're not guaranteed to get fired, but you committed a number of entirely avoidable junior associate cardinal sins:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
1. not pinging the partner (by forwarding the 1:30pm client email) once the client followed up;
2. not checking with a senior associate who has experience with the client (mentioned by the partner);
3. not CC'ing the partner on the email to the client (when in doubt, CC partner); and
4. not telling the partner you've already sent the client an email (big dishonesty red flag).
The 4th one is absolutely the biggest issue though. I'd say dishonesty is the number one reason for firing junior associates. This is entirely ignoring the substantive errors in your response to the client. Juniors are expected to make substantive errors. That's why their work always gets reviewed.
If you're not fired, you're on super thin ice.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
This isn't great. One of the few things first years are expected to do is show judgment. Just learn from it and move on. Hopefully in a few years it will be a funny warning story to other first years.
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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
The first three are like (independently) not great, but can be brushed off as eye-roll-y first year mistakes. The fourth is ... really bad.LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Nothing about this rises to the level of being fired or “super thin ice”LitBoutiqueAssociate wrote:You're not guaranteed to get fired, but you committed a number of entirely avoidable junior associate cardinal sins:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
1. not pinging the partner (by forwarding the 1:30pm client email) once the client followed up;
2. not checking with a senior associate who has experience with the client (mentioned by the partner);
3. not CC'ing the partner on the email to the client (when in doubt, CC partner); and
4. not telling the partner you've already sent the client an email (big dishonesty red flag).
The 4th one is absolutely the biggest issue though. I'd say dishonesty is the number one reason for firing junior associates. This is entirely ignoring the substantive errors in your response to the client. Juniors are expected to make substantive errors. That's why their work always gets reviewed.
If you're not fired, you're on super thin ice.
Given OP's in tax, a smaller group, s/he might not be able to get away from this partner. I'd suss out the relationship over the next month or so, and if the guy is still pissed/I sense a slowdown in work, I'd start looking for a new job.
Last edited by LBJ's Hair on Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- LaLiLuLeLo
- Posts: 949
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:54 am
Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)
Of course they can’t fuck up like this again. That’s true of most mistakes juniors make. Repeating the same mistake over and over after being corrected is probably the most common way you get fired. But a one time thing like this where the partner, though clearly upset, took the time to explain why it was a mistake tells me they’re not on thin ice. Just a typical first year fuck up.trebekismyhero wrote:While I agree that the junior is likely not going to get fired, the partner is definitely going to hold this against them. LitBoutique is exactly right on all the ways that OP made poor judgment calls. I think it is fair to say they're on thin ice cause they definitely can't fuck up like this again. If they generally do good work and this was a one time issue it will be fineLaLiLuLeLo wrote:Nothing about this rises to the level of being fired or “super thin ice”LitBoutiqueAssociate wrote:You're not guaranteed to get fired, but you committed a number of entirely avoidable junior associate cardinal sins:Anonymous User wrote:I am a first year tax associate.
A client approached me directly for comments at 8:30 PM requesting them for midday the next day. I drafted a response and sent it to the partner for approval at around 12:30 (it took me a few hours to review and research). The client followed up at about 1:30 PM and he still hadn't responded. So I sent what I had written anyway. It gets forwarded on to the other side and there is some discussion.
The tax partner finally follows up at 4 saying we should discuss. I approach him in person but I am too embarrassed to admit I already sent it. After getting him up to speed on the issue, I try to get him up to speed on the client communication but he decides it would be faster to phone the client. He explains our approach. She says, "OK, but it should be in the next turn." He is confused because he hasn't been cc'd on the emails. She mentions that I sent it. He stutters, embarrassed and clearly furious.
The issue is resolved by getting on the phone with the other side, discussing it, drafting some mild amendments.
At the end of it, he says to me, red in the face, trying so hard not to lose his cool, that I am much too junior to be sending out comments, and that if he's not available I should reach out to another lawyer. Then he went through that initial response I sent and pointed out everything that was wrong with it (I had made certain assumptions based on missing facts, and I had gotten an administrative position wrong.)
I felt terrible. I should have told the client to wait, but I was eager to meet their expectations and flattered that they had contacted me directly. I had a complete lapse in judgment. This is the shit they tell you not to do in Ethics.
Omg, am I going to get fired?
1. not pinging the partner (by forwarding the 1:30pm client email) once the client followed up;
2. not checking with a senior associate who has experience with the client (mentioned by the partner);
3. not CC'ing the partner on the email to the client (when in doubt, CC partner); and
4. not telling the partner you've already sent the client an email (big dishonesty red flag).
The 4th one is absolutely the biggest issue though. I'd say dishonesty is the number one reason for firing junior associates. This is entirely ignoring the substantive errors in your response to the client. Juniors are expected to make substantive errors. That's why their work always gets reviewed.
If you're not fired, you're on super thin ice.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
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