Faegre Baker Daniels? Forum

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 3. If you must come to the Twin Cities, look to go in-house directly without a stopover in a local firm. Unlike in other markets where you have to take a pay cut or sacrifice sophistication to move in house, there are a lot of corporations here with large in-house law departments where you can get very sophisticated work and a great quality of life while making more than you would as an associate at one of the large local law firms. In the past, you may have needed a stopover at a local firm to build connections, but that is certainly no longer the case and might even hurt your prospects of making an in-house move.
I don't know if you are still on this thread or not, but I was wondering how hard it would be to get a decent in-house job (140k) with a Twin Cities company coming from a V10 firm in Chicago. I'm originally from Minnesota, but came to UChicago. All of my family is from Minnesota, and I did undergrad there. Around 5 years of experience as an associate. Will it be tough without a ton of connections?
I often hear uninformed internet commenters suggest MSP is insular and that it is hard to break in without huge connections, but I don't buy that at all. Firms and in-house legal departments here are very receptive to folks that follow paths like yours. I know MANY in-house and law firm lawyers like you. Some catches:
- When you move as an experienced attorney, you are at the mercy of your experience and how it relates to the available openings. While a good market, the MSP legal market is much smaller than you'd think. There simply isn't always an opening for someone with any given level and type of experience. As someone else said, there are plenty of people who are good lawyers but have trouble moving into the market as laterals for this reason. The key is to be patient and opportunistic with the timing of your move.
- There are in-house lawyers with about your level of experience making about that much money in MSP, but I think that most probably make less than that.
- I don't necessarily agree with the advice you quoted about going straight in-house - for someone like you a stopover in a local firm can be very productive. The naysayers in this thread complaining about local firms are, in my opinion, overly negative. Secondary markets like MSP are very different than major legal markets and any attempt at comparison is not going to be favorable to the secondary market. In addition, because it is a small legal market with a huge number of lawyers and would-be lawyers, there are a lot of people who frankly struck out at the big firms, a few of whom speak loudly not from actual experience but from a place of bitterness. There are certainly valid criticisms about biglaw in general and this market in particular, and my statement about a few sour grapes shouldn't be read as discounting those criticisms or the people that proffer them. But at the same time you should know there are plenty of people who have positive experiences but don't spend their time commenting on Internet message boards. So if you think a stopover at a local firm might be a good fit for you, I wouldn't be afraid to explore it.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:51 am

Anonymous User wrote: Much of it has already been discussed, just tossing in an extra opinion. As has been stated, more or less: You work. It's boring. You don't get paid much. It's not interesting. Minneapolis is a good city, but it's not as cheap as you might think and it's cold and windy for five months of the year. This isn't shaping up to be a very good recruiting pitch.
Quite a recruiting pitch indeed! I work at a law firm in the Twin Cities and know many who do - while we have plenty of gripes, it is not nearly as bleak as you suggest.

Obviously you shouldn't consider a law firm in Minneapolis unless you want to be in Minneapolis. If you are intolerant of Minnesota winters or even just indifferent as to geography, you probably shouldn't seek out a law firm here. But if you do want to be in the Twin Cities - and there are plenty of people who do - then there are plenty of good options including Faegre.

Work can vary, and obviously you need to find a practice area that suits you, but there are plenty of lawyers doing interesting, sophisticated work for very sophisticated clients. This is particularly true of Faegre (and I'd say also very true of Dorsey and Fredrikson). If you find a practice group that fits you, I don't think work is any more boring or less interesting than at large law firms in other markets.

I am not going to defend law firm compensation in the Twin Cities generally as it is depressed and is still uncompetitive compared to other markets. But local law firm lawyers I know seem to be much more content with pay since Faegre raised salaries last year and other firms matched at the entry level. And although starting salaries are pretty even across local firms, anecdotally I believe that Faegre's seniority raises are slightly less compressed than most other local law firms and that Faegre tends to offer slightly higher bonuses, making Faegre pay marginally better on average (or at least not meaningfully worse) than other local law firms for a similar time commitment (setting aside IP boutiques). I'd love to hear from anyone at a local law firm (after the first year) that actually has reason to believe they make more total comp than a similarly situated lawyer at Faegre.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Fireworks2016 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:01 pm

Reviving this post to ask if anyone knows which Minneapolis firms offer a clerkship bonus? Seems like Minneapolis is an outlier in that few if any firms offer a bonus for Art. III clerkships

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:41 pm

Fireworks2016 wrote:Reviving this post to ask if anyone knows which Minneapolis firms offer a clerkship bonus? Seems like Minneapolis is an outlier in that few if any firms offer a bonus for Art. III clerkships
As far as I know, none do.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fireworks2016 wrote:Reviving this post to ask if anyone knows which Minneapolis firms offer a clerkship bonus? Seems like Minneapolis is an outlier in that few if any firms offer a bonus for Art. III clerkships
As far as I know, none do.
Do MSP firms have zero interest in recruiting top legal talent? Nothing about their compensation is competitive, even if it is an underleveraged market generally.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Fireworks2016 wrote:Reviving this post to ask if anyone knows which Minneapolis firms offer a clerkship bonus? Seems like Minneapolis is an outlier in that few if any firms offer a bonus for Art. III clerkships
As far as I know, none do.
Do MSP firms have zero interest in recruiting top legal talent? Nothing about their compensation is competitive, even if it is an underleveraged market generally.
Yea, I wonder this regularly. I'm above median at a T6 and really want to return to MSP but I just can't at this point. Honestly if they even went up to like 140 it would make a significant difference (at least to me).

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:24 pm

Does anyone know anything about Faegre's Chicago office?

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trebekismyhero

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by trebekismyhero » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know anything about Faegre's Chicago office?
Pay wise? Market in Chicago is 180 and FBD pays 145, so not very competitive. That said, their hour requirements are pretty low and I think they work you a lot less than the MPLS HQ

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:25 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know anything about Faegre's Chicago office?
Pay wise? Market in Chicago is 180 and FBD pays 145, so not very competitive. That said, their hour requirements are pretty low and I think they work you a lot less than the MPLS HQ
Thanks, that's helpful. Was curious about everything really; pay/reputation/quality of work/&c.

I assume that gap in salary gets much wider as one gets more senior?

Thanks. :)

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:10 pm

Always been impressed with FBD work product. (I'm in house counsel)

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by bruinfan10 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:In addition, because it is a small legal market with a huge number of lawyers and would-be lawyers, there are a lot of people who frankly struck out at the big firms, a few of whom speak loudly not from actual experience but from a place of bitterness. There are certainly valid criticisms about biglaw in general and this market in particular, and my statement about a few sour grapes shouldn't be read as discounting those criticisms or the people that proffer them. But at the same time you should know there are plenty of people who have positive experiences but don't spend their time commenting on Internet message boards. So if you think a stopover at a local firm might be a good fit for you, I wouldn't be afraid to explore it.
lord in heaven. the people posting criticisms of the MSP legal market in this thread did not "strike out" at MSP firms. Go sate your (admittedly charming) Minnesota homerism at a Northeast meat raffle.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by trebekismyhero » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know anything about Faegre's Chicago office?
Pay wise? Market in Chicago is 180 and FBD pays 145, so not very competitive. That said, their hour requirements are pretty low and I think they work you a lot less than the MPLS HQ
Thanks, that's helpful. Was curious about everything really; pay/reputation/quality of work/&c.

I assume that gap in salary gets much wider as one gets more senior?

Thanks. :)
Yes, it definitely gets wider. I am a junior at a market paying firm and I make the same as a guy who is a senior associate there. The in-house guy can attest to the quality of work. As far as reputation in Chicago, honestly it doesn't have much of one besides being an upstart. I think some of the smaller shops in the city are starting to pay attention, but FBD is only 60 or so attorneys in Chicago. I don't know if that's even top 50 in the city. I do know their growing so maybe in a few years it will be different.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:11 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know anything about Faegre's Chicago office?
Pay wise? Market in Chicago is 180 and FBD pays 145, so not very competitive. That said, their hour requirements are pretty low and I think they work you a lot less than the MPLS HQ
Thanks, that's helpful. Was curious about everything really; pay/reputation/quality of work/&c.

I assume that gap in salary gets much wider as one gets more senior?

Thanks. :)
Yes, it definitely gets wider. I am a junior at a market paying firm and I make the same as a guy who is a senior associate there. The in-house guy can attest to the quality of work. As far as reputation in Chicago, honestly it doesn't have much of one besides being an upstart. I think some of the smaller shops in the city are starting to pay attention, but FBD is only 60 or so attorneys in Chicago. I don't know if that's even top 50 in the city. I do know their growing so maybe in a few years it will be different.
Current (July 2017) NALP form shows that Chicago office starts at 160k.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by randomstudent » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:26 pm

The average starting salary at most of the major firms in town (Faegre, Fredrikson, Stinson, etc.) now seems to be $120K, according to NALP. Dorsey is moving to $140K in 2018, and Jones Day just opened an office in Minneapolis where they're offering a $160K starting salary.
Last edited by randomstudent on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by randomstudent » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:31 pm

Fireworks2016 wrote:Reviving this post to ask if anyone knows which Minneapolis firms offer a clerkship bonus? Seems like Minneapolis is an outlier in that few if any firms offer a bonus for Art. III clerkships
Clerkship bonuses can be negotiated at some firms on a case-by-case basis. But they're not a given. Faegre recently offered a clerkship bonus to one federal COA clerk, or at least that's what I heard.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:00 pm

Faegre starts at $140 for Minneapolis (non-IP) and matches Fish (for IP). Yes some associates were upset about that because non-hard science IP litigators get the bump too. Total billable is still 1850 and no additional bonus after 2300. Faegre is very transparent about bonus (non-discretionary part) and they even give you the formula.

They even gave a presentation in the past to associates about what to expect as a partner and even went into the partner compensation calculation along with the median compensation for each level/tier of partner.

Great firm to work for and people I work with are home for dinner with the family often (for lawyers). Salary increases get bigger when you move up a tier (three tiers before making partner) versus the yearly increase within a tier.

Oh, the Chicago salary quoted above is wrong too; it went up as well (earlier).

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Faegre starts at $140 for Minneapolis (non-IP) and matches Fish (for IP). Yes some associates were upset about that because non-hard science IP litigators get the bump too. Total billable is still 1850 and no additional bonus after 2300. Faegre is very transparent about bonus (non-discretionary part) and they even give you the formula.

They even gave a presentation in the past to associates about what to expect as a partner and even went into the partner compensation calculation along with the median compensation for each level/tier of partner.

Great firm to work for and people I work with are home for dinner with the family often (for lawyers). Salary increases get bigger when you move up a tier (three tiers before making partner) versus the yearly increase within a tier.

Oh, the Chicago salary quoted above is wrong too; it went up as well (earlier).
Thanks for the amplifying info about the current state at FBD! So are you saying FBD pays a separate pay scale for IP types that fully matches Fish and still considers bonuses, or does the bonus structure just try to bring base pay closer to Fish?

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:29 am

They increased the base to match. Before the IP bump wasn't that much ($5-$10k), but it's now more with the match. Bonus (non-discretionary formula at least didn't change).

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:Faegre starts at $140 for Minneapolis (non-IP) and matches Fish (for IP). Yes some associates were upset about that because non-hard science IP litigators get the bump too. Total billable is still 1850 and no additional bonus after 2300. Faegre is very transparent about bonus (non-discretionary part) and they even give you the formula.

They even gave a presentation in the past to associates about what to expect as a partner and even went into the partner compensation calculation along with the median compensation for each level/tier of partner.

Great firm to work for and people I work with are home for dinner with the family often (for lawyers). Salary increases get bigger when you move up a tier (three tiers before making partner) versus the yearly increase within a tier.

Oh, the Chicago salary quoted above is wrong too; it went up as well (earlier).
Hey, so my father was a partner before he passed away back when it was Faegre & Benson and after seeing this thread I brought up some of the things that were mentioned here to my mom. Something she said was that compensation for partners at Faegre in Minneapolis was unique. She gave an example of the BP oil spill incident and how in most other firms, the partner that brought in the client would have gotten a really large piece of the pie. However, because of the compensation scheme, all of the partners got a piece of the pie. She was really insistent on how this wouldn't have been the case at other firms like Dorsey. Is this still the way partner compensation works?

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Faegre starts at $140 for Minneapolis (non-IP) and matches Fish (for IP). Yes some associates were upset about that because non-hard science IP litigators get the bump too. Total billable is still 1850 and no additional bonus after 2300. Faegre is very transparent about bonus (non-discretionary part) and they even give you the formula.

They even gave a presentation in the past to associates about what to expect as a partner and even went into the partner compensation calculation along with the median compensation for each level/tier of partner.

Great firm to work for and people I work with are home for dinner with the family often (for lawyers). Salary increases get bigger when you move up a tier (three tiers before making partner) versus the yearly increase within a tier.

Oh, the Chicago salary quoted above is wrong too; it went up as well (earlier).
Hey, so my father was a partner before he passed away back when it was Faegre & Benson and after seeing this thread I brought up some of the things that were mentioned here to my mom. Something she said was that compensation for partners at Faegre in Minneapolis was unique. She gave an example of the BP oil spill incident and how in most other firms, the partner that brought in the client would have gotten a really large piece of the pie. However, because of the compensation scheme, all of the partners got a piece of the pie. She was really insistent on how this wouldn't have been the case at other firms like Dorsey. Is this still the way partner compensation works?
Partner compensation at firms vary. I believe Faegre has a holistic system that looks at all of your contributions and is not an “eat what you kill” shop, so your mom is right about that. I didn’t think Dorsey was or is eat-what—you-kill either, so that part of your anecdote might be unfair. I am sure no MN firms are true lockstep so I imagine the people who brought in that case got a bigger piece than those that didn’t.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Faegre starts at $140 for Minneapolis (non-IP) and matches Fish (for IP). Yes some associates were upset about that because non-hard science IP litigators get the bump too. Total billable is still 1850 and no additional bonus after 2300. Faegre is very transparent about bonus (non-discretionary part) and they even give you the formula.

They even gave a presentation in the past to associates about what to expect as a partner and even went into the partner compensation calculation along with the median compensation for each level/tier of partner.

Great firm to work for and people I work with are home for dinner with the family often (for lawyers). Salary increases get bigger when you move up a tier (three tiers before making partner) versus the yearly increase within a tier.

Oh, the Chicago salary quoted above is wrong too; it went up as well (earlier).
Hey, so my father was a partner before he passed away back when it was Faegre & Benson and after seeing this thread I brought up some of the things that were mentioned here to my mom. Something she said was that compensation for partners at Faegre in Minneapolis was unique. She gave an example of the BP oil spill incident and how in most other firms, the partner that brought in the client would have gotten a really large piece of the pie. However, because of the compensation scheme, all of the partners got a piece of the pie. She was really insistent on how this wouldn't have been the case at other firms like Dorsey. Is this still the way partner compensation works?
Partner compensation at firms vary. I believe Faegre has a holistic system that looks at all of your contributions and is not an “eat what you kill” shop, so your mom is right about that. I didn’t think Dorsey was or is eat-what—you-kill either, so that part of your anecdote might be unfair. I am sure no MN firms are true lockstep so I imagine the people who brought in that case got a bigger piece than those that didn’t.
From my experience with Dorsey, it is NOT an eat-what-you-kill firm (i.e. it operates like you described Faegre). Word is that it can can be a blessing when your clients are slow or you are just starting to build a book, but it can also be a curse when you bring in a big moneymaker. As far as I know the equity partner comp tends to not sway far from the PPP (~$600k), with a few notable exceptions (early-in partners with a larger chunk of equity). There IS a non-equity tier of partnership, so keep that in mind. No idea what they make, or even how that's calculated.

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Re: Faegre Drinker

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:04 am

Does anyone know current associate pay at Faegre Drinker? Any new info since the merger? Thanks

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Re: Faegre Drinker

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:04 am
Does anyone know current associate pay at Faegre Drinker? Any new info since the merger? Thanks
I know for first years, the billable minimum increased to 1950, with pay increased reflecting that. First year salary is $190,000 in major market, but I'm not sure if they will carry over associate pay-cuts from COVID-19.

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Re: Faegre Baker Daniels?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:12 pm

1. Any idea what the post-starting salary scale looks like in the 110-120 offices (Des Moines, Indy, Fort Wayne, maybe Albany)?

2. And/or what of counsel make? Is it significantly more than associates like Kirkland's NSPs or more of a permanent senior associate role? Glassdoor says 175-250 which seems like the latter (and not especially competitive compared to equity at more local firms)

3. It seems from the outside and what I've heard that it's nearly impossible to make partner in their smaller offices so counsel would be the realistic destination for associates, do you agree?

Also note that I don't think the 110-120 offices got raises for the new hours from NALP

Also their current PPP is just south of 900k, updating prior posts

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Re: Faegre Drinker

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:04 am
Does anyone know current associate pay at Faegre Drinker? Any new info since the merger? Thanks
The vast majority of Faegre's offices have starting salary listed on NALP

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