firms in terms of grade selectivity

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bowser

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firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby bowser » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:55 pm

I'm trying to figure out basically which NY V10-ish firm known for being at least somewhat grade selective people who are median or slightly better at have the best shot with. My own limited experience says it goes (from best shot from median to worst):


1. Skadden
2. Debevoise
3. Paul Weiss
4. Cleary
5. Davis Polk
6. Simpson
7. S&C
8. Cravath

If anyone thinks that any of these firms handle grades differently (i.e., say one firm will look at all candidates holistically who pass a certain cutoff, while for another top 10% trumps everything), I'd appreciate that too. Just trying to give some good advice.

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teachmehowtoraji

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby teachmehowtoraji » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:01 pm

Median where?

toothbrush

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby toothbrush » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:03 pm

this list makes no sense. why are you cherry picking v20+ to form a list

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bowser

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby bowser » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:20 pm

toothbrush wrote:this list makes no sense. why are you cherry picking v20+ to form a list


because these places seem to care the most about grades, as far as I can tell, and they have huge classes, so it is beneficial to get an interview with them if you have a real shot.

To poster above, Median at CCN.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby ymmv » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:23 pm

bowser wrote:
toothbrush wrote:this list makes no sense. why are you cherry picking v20+ to form a list


because these places seem to care the most about grades, as far as I can tell, and they have huge classes, so it is beneficial to get an interview with them if you have a real shot.

To poster above, Median at CCN.


Huh? Since when is e.g. Paul Weiss more grade-selective than Cravath. Nothing about this list or ordering matches up with the data I have seen.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:25 pm

You may have a shot at Deveboise and Cleary, but it will still be difficult without honors.
The rest is pretty much a lost cause.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby moonman157 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:25 pm

ymmv wrote:
bowser wrote:
toothbrush wrote:this list makes no sense. why are you cherry picking v20+ to form a list


because these places seem to care the most about grades, as far as I can tell, and they have huge classes, so it is beneficial to get an interview with them if you have a real shot.

To poster above, Median at CCN.


Huh? Since when is e.g. Paul Weiss more grade-selective than Cravath. Nothing about this list or ordering matches up with the data I have seen.


I think the list is written so that firms higher up are less selective (better chance of getting them at median at CCN)

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby toothbrush » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:26 pm

ymmv wrote:
bowser wrote:
toothbrush wrote:this list makes no sense. why are you cherry picking v20+ to form a list


because these places seem to care the most about grades, as far as I can tell, and they have huge classes, so it is beneficial to get an interview with them if you have a real shot.

To poster above, Median at CCN.


Huh? Since when is e.g. Paul Weiss more grade-selective than Cravath. Nothing about this list or ordering matches up with the data I have seen.

like i said the list makes no sense. #1 = least selective, #7 is the most. so PW is median-ish for selectivity. according to this guy.

and from experience at my low t14 cleary is more selective than others, say skadden and KE

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DELG

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby DELG » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:27 pm

lol @ people who should worry they might leave OCI with nothing asking this question

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bowser

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby bowser » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:33 pm

toothbrush wrote:like i said the list makes no sense. #1 = least selective, #7 is the most. so PW is median-ish for selectivity. according to this guy.

and from experience at my low t14 cleary is more selective than others, say skadden and KE


Are you saying PW is like super selective grade-wise?

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby bailey8078 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:37 pm

bowser wrote:
toothbrush wrote:like i said the list makes no sense. #1 = least selective, #7 is the most. so PW is median-ish for selectivity. according to this guy.

and from experience at my low t14 cleary is more selective than others, say skadden and KE


Are you saying PW is like super selective grade-wise?


Just reverse your list and end the confusion.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby toothbrush » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:38 pm

Fine Ill play your game but I think you should figure this out with your own schools data. The firms are now ranked according to their grade selectivity at my t14 school. didnt change the #s cause idc

LEAST SELECTIVE
1. Skadden
3. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
2. Debevoise
6. Simpson
4. Cleary
6. Simpson
7. S&C 8. Cravath
MOST SELECTIVE

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:02 pm

Why are you trying to trick people into thinking you have good grades?

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bowser

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby bowser » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:07 pm

haha. I'm a 3L; not worried about grades. I'm looking over bidlists from 2Ls, who are in between 3.41--3.5 and have all of these places. I tell them Cravath and S&C are most likely wasted, but I believe with that GPA you probably should have 2-4 interviews with some of these places cuz they're so frickin' big.

It's hard to distinguish b/t Cleary, Davis Polk, and Debevoise especially. I'm pretty sure you have an okay shot at Skadden at 3.5; not sure how good it is at the other places.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:10 pm

bowser wrote:haha. I'm a 3L; not worried about grades. I'm looking over bidlists from 2Ls, who are in between 3.41--3.5 and have all of these places. I tell them Cravath and S&C are most likely wasted, but I believe with that GPA you probably should have 2-4 interviews with some of these places cuz they're so frickin' big.

It's hard to distinguish b/t Cleary, Davis Polk, and Debevoise especially. I'm pretty sure you have an okay shot at Skadden at 3.5; not sure how good it is at the other places.


You asked this question really weirdly.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby alphasteve » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
bowser wrote:haha. I'm a 3L; not worried about grades. I'm looking over bidlists from 2Ls, who are in between 3.41--3.5 and have all of these places. I tell them Cravath and S&C are most likely wasted, but I believe with that GPA you probably should have 2-4 interviews with some of these places cuz they're so frickin' big.

It's hard to distinguish b/t Cleary, Davis Polk, and Debevoise especially. I'm pretty sure you have an okay shot at Skadden at 3.5; not sure how good it is at the other places.


You asked this question really weirdly.

I couldn't understand the OP at all. It may have been a top 10 worst written OPs on TLS (that were not intentionally terrible).

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:15 pm

OP, retitle this to "Reach firms for people at median"

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:16 pm

alphasteve wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
bowser wrote:haha. I'm a 3L; not worried about grades. I'm looking over bidlists from 2Ls, who are in between 3.41--3.5 and have all of these places. I tell them Cravath and S&C are most likely wasted, but I believe with that GPA you probably should have 2-4 interviews with some of these places cuz they're so frickin' big.

It's hard to distinguish b/t Cleary, Davis Polk, and Debevoise especially. I'm pretty sure you have an okay shot at Skadden at 3.5; not sure how good it is at the other places.


You asked this question really weirdly.

I couldn't understand the OP at all. It may have been a top 10 worst written OPs on TLS (that were not intentionally terrible).



The man just wants the least selective of the most selective in reverse order of selectivity.

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bowser

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby bowser » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:20 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
The man just wants the least selective of the most selective in reverse order of selectivity.


Yep.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:35 pm

Well I have a ~3.5 at CLS and decided to drop SullCrom. So I suppose this list helps for people in my situation. I have been told I have a shot at the rest.

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:53 pm

bowser wrote:haha. I'm a 3L; not worried about grades. I'm looking over bidlists from 2Ls, who are in between 3.41--3.5 and have all of these places. I tell them Cravath and S&C are most likely wasted, but I believe with that GPA you probably should have 2-4 interviews with some of these places cuz they're so frickin' big.

It's hard to distinguish b/t Cleary, Davis Polk, and Debevoise especially. I'm pretty sure you have an okay shot at Skadden at 3.5; not sure how good it is at the other places.


what's been communicated to me and what I've seen from your year in terms of grade selectivity specifically (NOT overall difficult to get a CB) would have Sullivan as actually more competitive than Cravath; Cleary be less selective than Cravath, S&C & wachtell but equal to or more than the rest; Davis Polk and STB as more than PW and Debevoise, maybe roughly equal to Cleary but definitely less than CSM/S&C/Wachtell, and then PW/Skadden and lastly (for this list) Debevoise.

So 1. S&C, 2. Cravath, 3. Cleary/Davis Polk/Simpson, 4. Paul Weiss, 5. Skadden, 6. Debevoise (with the differences between them not being very significant). Gibson and Latham are probably both at least as competitive as Debevoise - Latham didn't even take a single non-honors candidate last year. If you're not stone (or equivalent at another t6), don't bother with 1 - 4. If you're barely stone (<3.5), 1 -3 is probably not worth your time and a slot on your list. If you're b/t 3.5 and 3.6, anything but S&C is definitely worth a bid, and above 3.6 all are possible. And all these minutes distinctions probably don't matter much compared to interviewing and shit.

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rayiner

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:12 pm

Inside the T14, S&C is the most grade selective, followed by CSM, then DPW/Clearly/STB/PW/Debevoise. Weil, Latham, Gibson, K&E (both NY) and Skadden are a notch below that. Probably not worth trying to draw finer distinctions than that.

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2014

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:23 pm

From my experience w/ UChi all are functionally identical GPA wise.

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rpupkin

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby rpupkin » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:25 pm

2014 wrote:From my experience w/ UChi all are functionally identical GPA wise.

That's because no one can understand UChi's GPA.

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2014

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Re: firms in terms of grade selectivity

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:26 pm

rpupkin wrote:
2014 wrote:From my experience w/ UChi all are functionally identical GPA wise.

That's because no one can understand UChi's GPA.

This is true lol

First point was not sarcastic though



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