Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.trebekismyhero wrote:Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.
Good luck!
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- star fox
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?
-
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?
+1 (opportunity strikes being when you have the money available to invest)star fox wrote:Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.trebekismyhero wrote:Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.
Good luck!
- El Pollito
- Posts: 20139
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
just park your $ and forget it
Last edited by El Pollito on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
- kellyfrost
- Posts: 6362
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:58 pm
Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?
star fox wrote:Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.trebekismyhero wrote:Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.
Good luck!
Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Johann
- Posts: 19704
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 pm
Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?
they come with a shitload of tax planning opportunities.kellyfrost wrote:star fox wrote:Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.trebekismyhero wrote:Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.
Good luck!
Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.
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- kellyfrost
- Posts: 6362
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:58 pm
Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?
I'll submit that I don't know or understand the tax planning opportunities of a cash value life insurance policy. So maybe that is why you bought it. I still stand by my opinion that they aren't a good insurance vehicle.Johann wrote:they come with a shitload of tax planning opportunities.kellyfrost wrote:star fox wrote:Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.trebekismyhero wrote:Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.
Good luck!
Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 428520
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?
How many of those tax planning opportunities are relevant to a junior BigLaw associate? I mostly remember either legitimately rich people or doctors with basically 30 years of guaranteed 6 figure income benefiting from cash value policies based on the ability to duck inheritance taxes and such.Johann wrote:they come with a shitload of tax planning opportunities.kellyfrost wrote:star fox wrote:Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.trebekismyhero wrote:Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.
Good luck!
Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.
-
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- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:48 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Moving to San Diego, hoping to refi my refi now that I'm going to be in a First Republic-eligible location. Currently paying ~3.3% mixed between a variable @ 2.9ish with autopay and a fixed @ 3.8ish with autopay.
Does anyone have advice on contacting them? (or a promotional link?) I'll be under their 2-year experience limit, but I will also have cash and other liquid assets amounting to over 20% of my principal.
Also, if anyone has advice on San Diego generally, I'm happy to hear it/PM me.
Does anyone have advice on contacting them? (or a promotional link?) I'll be under their 2-year experience limit, but I will also have cash and other liquid assets amounting to over 20% of my principal.
Also, if anyone has advice on San Diego generally, I'm happy to hear it/PM me.
- JenDarby
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
with those parameters you will probably be fine with an FRB refi, assuming excellent credit and not heavily leveraged in other ways. I refinanced my refi with them, and I'm also from San Diego. I'll PM youtransfer22 wrote:Moving to San Diego, hoping to refi my refi now that I'm going to be in a First Republic-eligible location. Currently paying ~3.3% mixed between a variable @ 2.9ish with autopay and a fixed @ 3.8ish with autopay.
Does anyone have advice on contacting them? (or a promotional link?) I'll be under their 2-year experience limit, but I will also have cash and other liquid assets amounting to over 20% of my principal.
Also, if anyone has advice on San Diego generally, I'm happy to hear it/PM me.
Last edited by JenDarby on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
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- Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 7:02 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.
Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.
I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.
I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).
I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.
While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?
Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.
I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.
I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).
I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.
While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?
-
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- Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Seems risky, particularly as a 2nd year. Have to consider your ability to repay if you no longer have your big law job in 1-3 years. I think you are better off staying where you are at, saving extra money...then if shit hits the fan, you have some savings to contribute to your loans (as a last resort, of course). That said, you are correct, definitely a personal decision.PowerBag21 wrote:I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.
Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.
I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.
I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).
I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.
While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?
-
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- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
It's funny because I went for a 7 year but I think FR's 10 year was the sweet spot (0.3% increase to extend the loan for 3 years seems easily worth it). Heck, the 15 year might also have been an even better deal.PowerBag21 wrote:I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.
Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.
I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.
I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).
I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.
While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?
I would look at it this way: if you paid off your current loan in 5 years (using equal monthly payments), you would pay about 13.1k in interest at 2.95. If you refied to 2.35, you would pay 16.5k in interest over the same 5 years. That 3.4k difference is barely more than 1 month's payment (e.g., the difference between paying it off in 60 months rather than 61) and on a per month basis is only ~57/month for 60 months.
I just don't see that kind of saving being worth sacrificing 5 years of flexibility on your loan in the event something happens. If you want to pay it off faster than 10 years (in 5 years or any other amount), go ahead and do that. But I wouldn't refi.
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Good point. I could just start paying off my current loan as if I were on the 5 year plan, and I'd end up making basically only one extra payment at the end in exchange for the flexibility to pay as little as $2,285 per month at any point. Maybe I'm overestimating the savings associated with a .6% drop in APR. When you lay it out like that, I think I'll stay where I am. Now just need to figure out how much I'd like to pay per month.bk1 wrote:It's funny because I went for a 7 year but I think FR's 10 year was the sweet spot (0.3% increase to extend the loan for 3 years seems easily worth it). Heck, the 15 year might also have been an even better deal.PowerBag21 wrote:I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.
Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.
I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.
I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).
I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.
While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?
I would look at it this way: if you paid off your current loan in 5 years (using equal monthly payments), you would pay about 13.1k in interest at 2.95. If you refied to 2.35, you would pay 16.5k in interest over the same 5 years. That 3.4k difference is barely more than 1 month's payment (e.g., the difference between paying it off in 60 months rather than 61) and on a per month basis is only ~57/month for 60 months.
I just don't see that kind of saving being worth sacrificing 5 years of flexibility on your loan in the event something happens. If you want to pay it off faster than 10 years (in 5 years or any other amount), go ahead and do that. But I wouldn't refi.
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Forgive my naïveté, but what exactly are the interest implications on prepayments? For example, if my monthly payment of $2,285 is due on the 10th of every month, and on the 11th, I choose to pay an additional $2,285, I assume that this additional payment reduces my principal by that amount e.g. prepayments go entirely to principal such that prepayments ultimately save the borrower more if made near the beginning of the loan as compared to the end?
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Yes. You can tell them that you want the overpayment to go entirely to principal.PowerBag21 wrote:Forgive my naïveté, but what exactly are the interest implications on prepayments? For example, if my monthly payment of $2,285 is due on the 10th of every month, and on the 11th, I choose to pay an additional $2,285, I assume that this additional payment reduces my principal by that amount e.g. prepayments go entirely to principal such that prepayments ultimately save the borrower more if made near the beginning of the loan as compared to the end?
- El Pollito
- Posts: 20139
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.
Last edited by El Pollito on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
- El Pollito
- Posts: 20139
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
omg the jews are going to refinance 15k of my debt at no interest
Last edited by El Pollito on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Do they have to be sincerely held religious beliefs?El Pollito wrote:my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
There's still the "ethno" part of "ethnoreligious."Nebby wrote:Do they have to be sincerely held religious beliefs?El Pollito wrote:my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.
- El Pollito
- Posts: 20139
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
no i think they're just going off of my last name. i'll let you know if they ask any pressing questions in my loan interview.Nebby wrote:Do they have to be sincerely held religious beliefs?El Pollito wrote:my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.
this is amazing.
Last edited by El Pollito on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
Wow that's awesome! Good job chicken
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- El Pollito
- Posts: 20139
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
my remaining fed loans got kicked out of repaye
Last edited by El Pollito on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
- magnum_law
- Posts: 224
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:32 pm
Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
What? That can happen - how??El Pollito wrote:my remaining fed loans got kicked out of repaye
- Pokemon
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
magnum_law wrote:What? That can happen - how??El Pollito wrote:my remaining fed loans got kicked out of repaye
- grand inquisitor
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here
my guess would be they autokick anyone whose repaye payment becomes equal to or greater than their standard repayment plan payment
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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