Character and Fitness worries... Forum

[Anonymous User]

great idea, will def look into it.

[Anonymous User]

BUMP.

Any other advice? Should I have a heart to heart with the Dean before "lawyering up"?

Thanks for the support guys.

[aces]

I might consult a professor I trust and who you think might be an informal advocate on your behalf.

[BVest]

Ooooh. That makes more sense.

I would talk to a lawyer who really knows her sh_t and preferably has connections with your school. In this situation, a lawyer is not for "litigation". You would lose that battle against a law school for sure. The lawyer is to help you put together mitigating factors and assist in discussions with the dean. If you pick someone the dean respects, that could go a long way.

This. And also to help you manage your application with the state bar. (I'm not saying sue the school. That would not likely help your cause.)

There are attorneys who specialize in each of these things, though it's possible there's someone who does both.

[Anonymous User]

I might consult a professor I trust and who you think might be an informal advocate on your behalf.

turns out that my torts prof from last year is also a PR expert, and we have a good rapport (she wrote recs for me for 1L summer gigs)

i should reach out to her, right?

[Anonymous User]

or wait, won't it now be a conflict for the PR prof, now that the dean is refusing based on my current status?

[Anonymous User]

any tips for the meeting with the dean tmrw?

[Anonymous User]

really? i though a dean's cert was required. let me check; thanks for the head's up.

Nope. For example, my state just required a certified letter stating I was a student there and graduated.

ugh fuck, PA requires a dean's cert

i'm in hot water.

[A. Nony Mouse]

or wait, won't it now be a conflict for the PR prof, now that the dean is refusing based on my current status?

I doubt it will be a conflict, but I would talk to the prof and let her make the call.

[lukertin]

Any other advice? Should I have a heart to heart with the Dean before "lawyering up"?

Thanks for the support guys.

Yea I would set up a meeting with the Dean first, to discuss it. See what he says.

[Anonymous User]

or wait, won't it now be a conflict for the PR prof, now that the dean is refusing based on my current status?

I doubt it will be a conflict, but I would talk to the prof and let her make the call.

why do you doubt that it will be a conflict? wouldn't she be hesitant to go against the wishes of a higher up?

i did sent a heartfelt email to the PR prof discussing the situation and asking for guidance.

hopefully she could pull strings for me? ugh. need a fucking miracle.

it's a shame that a minute of angry, impulsive indiscretion can destroy an aspiration in an instant.
Certainly i should have known better, but i hope that the dean sees my desire for redemption.
I have no debt (schollies and family support) and wanted to work in Legal Aid/PD.
Was excitedly prepping for EJW interviews. Looking forward to putting the past behind me and moving onwards.
Now all those dreams may be gone.

trying to sleep tonight will be awesome.

[Anonymous User]

why do you doubt that it will be a conflict? wouldn't she be hesitant to go against the wishes of a higher up?

tenured prof = lol dont care

it's a shame that a minute of angry, impulsive indiscretion can destroy an aspiration in an instant.
Certainly i should have known better, but i hope that the dean sees my desire for redemption.
I have no debt (schollies and family support) and wanted to work in Legal Aid/PD.

I was in a similarly sticky situation once. dean said "do [this] and we'll pretend it never happened". I did [this].

that was the end of that.

[Anonymous User]

Any other advice? Should I have a heart to heart with the Dean before "lawyering up"?

Thanks for the support guys.

Yea I would set up a meeting with the Dean first, to discuss it. See what he says.

yeah, i called the dean's office earlier this afternoon to set up a meeting.

what to say, other than being contrite, admitting my error, and promising to seek help in some fashion? how else to best advocate for myself?
will it look bad if i cry? i won't be blubbering hysterically, but it will be hard to hold back, given the gravity of the situation. i'm a girl, btw.

[Anonymous User]

why do you doubt that it will be a conflict? wouldn't she be hesitant to go against the wishes of a higher up?

tenured prof = lol dont care

it's a shame that a minute of angry, impulsive indiscretion can destroy an aspiration in an instant.
Certainly i should have known better, but i hope that the dean sees my desire for redemption.
I have no debt (schollies and family support) and wanted to work in Legal Aid/PD.

I was in a similarly sticky situation once. dean said "do [this] and we'll pretend it never happened". I did [this].

that was the end of that.

yeah, she is a tenured prof. has taught here for nearly 30 years. expert on PR, and i have a good rapport with her.

similarly sticky? was it as bad as this?

[lukertin]

yeah, i called the dean's office earlier this afternoon to set up a meeting.

what to say, other than being contrite, admitting my error, and promising to seek help in some fashion?

Don't forget to ask like "What can I do to make this right?"

Try not to cry--If you can't help it, that's one thing, but if you can help it...I don't think it's a good idea. Especially if the dean is a male. he'll just be like 'well fuck me'

[Anonymous User]

will the fact that its a catholic law school make it less likely that they'll budge? *paranoid*

so scared that my moment of assfoolery will cost me a dream.

...and yet, folks with multiple DUIs are admitted left and right.

FML.

[A. Nony Mouse]

why do you doubt that it will be a conflict? wouldn't she be hesitant to go against the wishes of a higher up?

tenured prof = lol dont care

Exactly. Plus, academic freedom and faculty governance - deans aren't bosses in the traditional sense. Plus, it's not really legal advice as much as it's advice about academic administration.

[Anonymous User]

yeah, i called the dean's office earlier this afternoon to set up a meeting.

what to say, other than being contrite, admitting my error, and promising to seek help in some fashion?

Don't forget to ask like "What can I do to make this right?"

Try not to cry--If you can't help it, that's one thing, but if you can help it...I don't think it's a good idea. Especially if the dean is a male. he'll just be like 'well fuck me'

i like that line--i think i'll use it!

def won't be theatrical with crying or make a scene, but if it comes out, it comes out.

[Anonymous User]

why do you doubt that it will be a conflict? wouldn't she be hesitant to go against the wishes of a higher up?

tenured prof = lol dont care

Exactly. Plus, academic freedom and faculty governance - deans aren't bosses in the traditional sense. Plus, it's not really legal advice as much as it's advice about academic administration.

in that case, should i reach out to another prof?

he's my crim/evidence prof, who i have a good rapport with. he's also an expert in PR.

tho the fact that he was prosecutor may make him less sympathetic? lol

[Holly Golightly]

will the fact that its a catholic law school make it less likely that they'll budge? *paranoid*

so scared that my moment of assfoolery will cost me a dream.

...and yet, folks with multiple DUIs are admitted left and right.

FML.

Don't give up yet. Be conciliatory and apologetic and see what you can do. Ask if there is anything you can do prior to graduation to get back in good academc standing so the school will be able to provide you with a Dean's cert when you graduate and apply for C&F. The way I read the email you posted, it seems like he's saying they can't provide those things while you're on probation, not forever.

After you talk to the Dean, try talking to friendly profs and see what they think. I also agree with those suggesting getting a lawyer--there are attorneys who specialize in honest kinds of things, and I know people who have consulted them

[Anonymous User]

yeah, she is a tenured prof. has taught here for nearly 30 years. expert on PR, and i have a good rapport with her.

similarly sticky? was it as bad as this?

probably worse...like "you're forever fucked" worse. yours has more of a temporary quality to it, not to say it isn't serious.

[Anonymous User]

since ur anon, can u elaborate?

was it an academic violation? or behavioral?

[Anonymous User]

will the fact that its a catholic law school make it less likely that they'll budge? *paranoid*

so scared that my moment of assfoolery will cost me a dream.

...and yet, folks with multiple DUIs are admitted left and right.

FML.

Don't give up yet. Be conciliatory and apologetic and see what you can do. Ask if there is anything you can do prior to graduation to get back in good academc standing so the school will be able to provide you with a Dean's cert when you graduate and apply for C&F. The way I read the email you posted, it seems like he's saying they can't provide those things while you're on probation, not forever.

After you talk to the Dean, try talking to friendly profs and see what they think. I also agree with those suggesting getting a lawyer--there are attorneys who specialize in honest kinds of things, and I know people who have consulted them

that's how i interpreted the letter as well--that he cant provide cert while i'm on probation, and not forever, tho maybe it's my wishful thinking?

is "professional licensing defense att'y" the correct term for lawyers who deal with C&F matters?

[Anonymous User]

since ur anon, can u elaborate?

was it an academic violation? or behavioral?

it was the former

[Anonymous User]

ok, thanks. surprised dean waived that.

was is deliberate cheating or careless/unintentional plagiarism?

no judgement zone, bro. (i really have no right to judge others for their c&f faults, given that i acted like a complete a-hole, lol)