The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:05 pm

I'm thinking about sending resumes into my home-market firms because idk if I can get a job in my PI field straight out of law school. I've got decent stats (top 10% @ lower t14) but a 100% PI resume/transcript. How do I do a halfway-convincing cover letter that says 'I want to be a lit associate in your secondary market'?"

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Hey, the BYU bank isn't working anymore w/ the login provided.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby notDINGBAT » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So when does it become appropriate to start mass mailing smaller to mid-size firms in my city? I've been told most don't know what their needs will be until early next year. Or should I start to cultivate those relationships?


cultivate those relationships, don't apply yet


What is good, general advice for how to cultivate relationships? I've never really known how to do that/what to say.


- look up any alumni, friends-of-friends, church/synagogue/mosque people, anyone with even the slightest connection who works as an attorney (preferably partner, but anyone will do), send a personalized email saying you're a law student, you're interested in their area of law (and why) and ask if they'd be willing to talk to you about their practice.
Some won't answer, some might give you a few minutes on the phone, but some will meet you for coffee or lunch. When I was a 1L, one partner invited me to an event at his firm and introduced me to other partners, including the hiring partner. As a practicing attorney, I'm meeting a student who reached out to me later today.
- ask questions. you're not begging for a job (if they want to help, they'll offer), you're looking to learn.
- near the end, ask if you can continue to reach out to them, e.g. if you have more questions
- send a thank you email shortly after
- sporadically reach out, just so they don't forget who you are. Maybe you read an article they'd find interesting, or you have a technical issue you (pretend you) don't understand, or maybe you send a personal update.

Most of this will go nowhere, but you only need one. The law student I'm meeting with later I'll probably never see again. But if the student appears smart and capable, well, if we have an opportunity to add someone in the future, then we'll have a possible candidate.
Realistically, based on my expectations for the firm, I don't see us adding anyone in 2018, but a member of the class of 2019 would be well-advised to reach out to me now and stay on my radar.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey, the BYU bank isn't working anymore w/ the login provided.


Fixed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby courtneylove » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
andythefir wrote:
Have you passed any bar?Have you moved your payments to an income based plan?

I passed my state bar. Been looking for anything I can but my schools CSO is worse than useless and have basically just told me to fuck off when I ask for help. Every dollar I earn goes to keeping a roof over my head so even ibr is too much. I'm looking for retail work but haven't been able to find anything. I don't have health insurance which is giving me panic attacks on top of everything else. I've sold most of my stuff on craigslist at this point, most of the money I had saved from my SA went to paying for the bar and Barbri which has been a massive waste of time and money. If i had been working during that time I'd be way better off now. I don't know how much more of this I can take.


If you’re in Northern California or willing to come out here send me a PM. My JD-preferred job is hiring right now.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gom.sa » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:02 pm

andythefir wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
andythefir wrote:
Have you passed any bar?Have you moved your payments to an income based plan?

I passed my state bar. Been looking for anything I can but my schools CSO is worse than useless and have basically just told me to fuck off when I ask for help. Every dollar I earn goes to keeping a roof over my head so even ibr is too much. I'm looking for retail work but haven't been able to find anything. I don't have health insurance which is giving me panic attacks on top of everything else. I've sold most of my stuff on craigslist at this point, most of the money I had saved from my SA went to paying for the bar and Barbri which has been a massive waste of time and money. If i had been working during that time I'd be way better off now. I don't know how much more of this I can take.


I’m sorry you’re in this position. New Mexico’s 5th DA is hiring (http://nmdas.com/districts/fifth/index.html). Check New Mexico’s bar bulletin, there are usually several entry level job postings per week (https://www.nmbar.org/Nmstatebar/Public ... letin.aspx). You can start right away if you’ve passed the bar anywhere. I’m happy to answer any questions.


Do you have any advice on what a 3L interested in prosecution should be doing at this point? I've already applied to pretty much every office that hires pre-bar and am still waiting on results. Do you think it's worth it to start mass mailing offices where I'd be interested in working? My school has paid 1-year fellowships for PI people - do you think any of these rural offices would bring on someone who has taken the bar and convert to full time staff upon passage?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:59 pm

gom.sa wrote:
andythefir wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
andythefir wrote:Do you have any advice on what a 3L interested in prosecution should be doing at this point? I've already applied to pretty much every office that hires pre-bar and am still waiting on results. Do you think it's worth it to start mass mailing offices where I'd be interested in working? My school has paid 1-year fellowships for PI people - do you think any of these rural offices would bring on someone who has taken the bar and convert to full time staff upon passage?


I was myself hired in March of my 3L year, worked full time while studying for the bar and took over the cases upon passing. The offices that will hire someone without a bar card in hand are either 1 so big that they know there will be enough turnover to find a spot or 2 so desperate they’ll make what’s objectively a bad personnel move if you have any other options.

If it were me, I’d start throwing cover letters and resumes to all of the DAs offices in the rural mountain west. If they bite, great, if not, when it’s closer to being able to start you’ll have demonstrated your interest in the office.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:59 pm

BYU job bank is open to other law school grads looking for jobs? if so, how do I access please? waiting back on a call from a good interview beginning of last week and left a Happy New Year voicemail on her phone. I haven't heard anything back yet (although it's probably the first day back in the office), losing my mind trying to obtain a full-time job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:07 pm

Anyone apply to the PILC fair 3L entry-level positions? I think everyone finds out on January 18th whether or not they get an interview.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby RCSOB657 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:46 pm

Well I'm back in here.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:24 pm

Various Job Openings Posted on Symplicity within last 10 days:

1. Lee Litigation Group, PLLC - New York, New York - Seeking Junior Associates

2. Staas & Halsey LLP - Washington, DC - Patent boutique looking for an associate attorney. The candidate must have either an Electrical Engineering or Computer Engineering Degree.

3. Nossaman LLP - Los Angeles, CA - Seeking a staff attorney for its Eminent Domain and Valuation Practice Group in its Northern or Southern California offices

4. Robins & Kaplan - New York, New York - Seeking Junior Associate

5. Kotchen & Low LLP - Washington, DC - Seeking Junior Associate

6. Stone Mattheis Xenopoulos & Brew, PC - Washington, DC - Seeking Junior Associate for National Energy & Regulatory Practice

7. Gray Plant & Mooty - Washington, DC - Seeking Junior Associate (Commercial Lit & White Collar)

8. Zinda Law Group - Denver, CO - Seeking Junior Associate for Personal Injury

9. Gould Cooksey Fennell - Vero Beach, FL - Tax & Estate Planning Junior Associate

10. Lydecker Diaz - Jersey City, NJ or Melville, NY - Litigation Associate

11. Slocumb Law Firm - Washington, DC - Personal Injury Junior Associate

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FamilyLawEsq » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:22 am

York County Pennsylvania Position Title: Trial Deputy Prosecutor

Resumes may be sent to my attention at kgking@yorkcountypa.gov, or District Attorney’s Office; Attn: Kyle King; 45 N. George St. York, PA 17401. Our office will be accepting resumes for the next 30 days.

A Trial Deputy Prosecutor must be a licensed attorney, admitted to practice law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS, DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES

A. Represent the District Attorney’s Office in the adult and juvenile York County Treatment Courts.

B. Assist in reviewing all potential Treatment Court participants for program eligibility and reduction of offenses upon a participant’s successful graduation from Treatment Court.

C. Coordinate activities with District Attorney’s Office support staff personnel, Case Manager and Victim/Witness Coordinator assigned to assist with Treatment Courts.

D. Communicate Treatment Court related activities with law enforcement and the County Detectives.

E. Attend Treatment Court staffing sessions with Treatment Court team and actively participate in the staffing of Treatment Court cases.

F. Interact with the Treatment Court team in a positive manner to address revocations, pleas, and application of sanctions and incentives as they apply to the Treatment Court participant.

G. Assess and recommend sentencing alternatives related to Treatment Courts aimed at reducing recidivism, such as County and State Intermediate Punishment initiatives.

H. Be proficient in the best practice standards governing all Treatment Courts and remain well-versed in all data and literature concerning Treatment Courts and initiatives aimed at reducing recidivism.

I. At the discretion of the District Attorney, serve on committees and other activities concerning Treatment Courts and sentencing initiatives.

J. Participate in Trial Team meetings and prepare minutes for review by Senior Management

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:14 pm

More Job Postings, cont'd:

1. Broad and Cassel - Orlando, Florida - Corporate Attorney

2. Littleton Joyce Ughetta Park & Kelly LLP - New York, New York - Litigation Associate

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby j907 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:33 am

Anyone knows of any openings in Chicago? I want to pursue litigation (have some part time PI experience, spent 1L summer as a clerk and my 2L job was at a non profit). I think anyone who looks at my resume probably wonders what it is that I want to do so if there's someone here who could offer any advice I'd really appreciate it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:49 am

I've had one job since law school (about 7 months of work experience there)... How should I organize my most up-to-date resume? I used to have education at the top (law school, undergrad) followed by work experience listing the different places i worked/interned. I'm considering moving the entire work experience section to the top but that seems kind of clunky (especially since a few of the jobs are internships I did while in law school). Any ideas? I don't think it makes sense to have the post-law school job at the top, then education, then other work experience, but i'm open to that if people think it's a good idea.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:08 pm

If you're still in that job, this is not the thread for you.

Anonymous User wrote:I've had one job since law school (about 7 months of work experience there)... How should I organize my most up-to-date resume? I used to have education at the top (law school, undergrad) followed by work experience listing the different places i worked/interned. I'm considering moving the entire work experience section to the top but that seems kind of clunky (especially since a few of the jobs are internships I did while in law school). Any ideas? I don't think it makes sense to have the post-law school job at the top, then education, then other work experience, but i'm open to that if people think it's a good idea.


You can keep education at the top, however you might want to edit it down a little to take out the BS that's no longer needed. Don't divide up your legal work (even if some is post-grad and some is internships etc.)
Last edited by BVest on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby stephen_harrison » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:36 pm

I wrote an article about The Vale and TLS generally for The Outline. The focus was the effect of the Recession on young lawyers.

Dropping this here in case others are interested: https://theoutline.com/post/2943/this-is-where-all-the-unemployed-lawyers-go-to-cry?zd=1

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:27 pm

I don't know how much longer I can do this. I think about ending it all every single day. It's usually the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know how much longer I can do this. I think about ending it all every single day. It's usually the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning.


Hello, I wish I could help more, but I just want you to know that I, and I'm sure plenty of people reading your post here, are thinking about you and praying for you and rooting for you. You matter. I hope that if you need to, you'll talk to someone who can help more - here are a couple of phone numbers I found.

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline – Suicide prevention telephone hotline funded by the U.S. government. Provides free, 24-hour assistance. 1-800-273-TALK (8255).

National Hopeline Network – Toll-free telephone number offering 24-hour suicide crisis support. 1-800-SUICIDE (784-2433). (National Hopeline Network)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby blueapple » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know how much longer I can do this. I think about ending it all every single day. It's usually the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning.


Hey -- I probably don't know you but feel free to send me a PM if you would like to talk. I know it must feel like law is all that matters, but it's not.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know how much longer I can do this. I think about ending it all every single day. It's usually the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning.


I’m sorry you’re in this position, that’s proof of how toxic law school and legal job searching can be. I know of 3 offices who have been hiring for months because they can’t find anybody, but that schtick isn’t new on this page.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:56 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm back :/ Got offered from my summer firm, but then had it rescinded cuz they told me they wouldn't sponsor my visa. Was jobless all through 3L, til graduation, til the end of the bar, then finally found a contract in-house position through a school alum connection in mid-September and have been working there since. But now last Friday, had a meeting with our GC and he told me that the company would also not be able to sponsor my visa, effectively putting me on the job market again.... I now have to find a job until March or I get deported. Fuck.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:03 am

I was in this thread as a 3L. I didn't leave until the spring of the following year. It sucks, it is depressing, and it made me question everything. As cliche as it sounds, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Although the tunnel is not the same length for every person, there is an end. Keep your head up, and keep moving forward. You will make it. For whatever it is worth, here are some thoughts:

1) Apply to every job you can, and take every interview that you can. It took me about 5 interviews before I finally landed my job. With each interview, I felt myself getting better and better. Look at the interviews for jobs you do not want as practice: you do not have to accept an offer, but you should utilize the opportunity. It is simply impossible to simulate a real interview, in my opinion.

2) My CSO sucked shit. They were terrible. The one thing they did that seriously helped me out, was that they set me up with an alum that left law and transitioned to legal recruiting. He was incredibly helpful. He revised my resume numerous times. I could call and/or email him whenever I needed assistance. He gave me mock interviews before every interview I had. All of this was without pay, referral fee, etc. He continues to help me to this day, and he has arranged for some interviews for me at large law firms (although, now it is for the referral fee or whatever it is called).

3) Apply to every single job, in every single jurisdiction, in every single state and city. You never know where you will end up.

4) Continue to live your life. It is hard, but try to have fun, work out, play video games, or whatever it is that makes you tick. Your mental health is so important during a job search.

5) If you get an interview, do not think that it will be the only interview you will get. You will put too much pressure on yourself. If they offered you an interview, then have the confidence that you can get the position. It was not luck. It was all you.

6) This might be a controversial opinion, but I do not think that anyone gives a fuck about cover letters. Make it as short as possible. Unless, there is some unique circumstance, I do not think overly thought-out cover letters are necessary or appropriate for the general application. All it can do is hurt you (misspellings, etc).

7) Review your resume every day because you might think of something to add that was not there before, a different way to describe something, etc. Nothing is ever perfect.

8) Good luck. Have faith in your self. Have confidence. Keep your head up and keep moving.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
6) This might be a controversial opinion, but I do not think that anyone gives a fuck about cover letters. Make it as short as possible. Unless, there is some unique circumstance, I do not think overly thought-out cover letters are necessary or appropriate for the general application. All it can do is hurt you (misspellings, etc).



100% agree. I did not even submit a cover letter when applying for the job that got me out of the vale of tears after 7 months (big law staff attorney gig) and again did not submit a cover letter for my next job after that (mid law associate). Keep it super short and simple. It comes down to your resume and substantive work experience.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:52 pm

Had an interview across the country scheduled for next week. Found out today that they have to reschedule. Checked with Delta, and they say my only options are either to pay a $200 change fee on my $205 ticket, which I can't afford, or to throw away the $205 I already spent...

How's everyone else's day going?



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