Top Law Schools

Anyone know how difficult is it to do and how long it takes until you can change Biglaw offices? I am particularly interested in Jones Day.

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know how difficult is it to do and how long it takes until you can change Biglaw offices? I am particularly interested in Jones Day.

Usually pretty unlikely to change practice groups, let alone offices...

Aqualibrium wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know how difficult is it to do and how long it takes until you can change Biglaw offices? I am particularly interested in Jones Day.

Usually pretty unlikely to change practice groups, let alone offices...

I think this is misleading. Changing offices can be easier than changing practice groups, depending on the circumstances. Practice groups involve experience and training, and you basically have to start over whenever you start a new practice group. But if your firm has two offices with the same practice group in each, a move doesn't necessarily involve a lot of retraining.

The difficulty in changing offices really varies by firm. There are firms where this isn't that hard under the right circumstances. If your firm is friendly to it, and both your current and desired offices need people in your practice group. If your firm isn't friendly to it, or you're trying to move to an office that has nobody in your specialty, it's probably near impossible.

Anonymous User wrote:

Aqualibrium wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know how difficult is it to do and how long it takes until you can change Biglaw offices? I am particularly interested in Jones Day.

Usually pretty unlikely to change practice groups, let alone offices...

I think this is misleading. Changing offices can be easier than changing practice groups, depending on the circumstances. Practice groups involve experience and training, and you basically have to start over whenever you start a new practice group. But if your firm has two offices with the same practice group in each, a move doesn't necessarily involve a lot of retraining.

The difficulty in changing offices really varies by firm. There are firms where this isn't that hard under the right circumstances. If your firm is friendly to it, and both your current and desired offices need people in your practice group. If your firm isn't friendly to it, or you're trying to move to an office that has nobody in your specialty, it's probably near impossible.

This is true, but misleading. Changing between large offices at some large firms can in fact be done. However, don't forget that it entails sitting for a new bar exam, and that is not a trifle.

Of course different variables come into the equation, but for the most part, if you want to be in a certain office, you need to start there. Most of the people who ask this question, around this same time every year, are 2L's who are wondering whether or not they should just eat it and go for the office with more summer seats to help their chances, then try to change to the office they actually want in a year or two. That's not the way it works...

Sort of. It's quite common to move around in some firms (Gibson Dunn...), and in many others movement from the headquarters/largest office (usually NYC) to the smaller offices is fairly common and doable if you express interest and are in a needed practice group. Not something to go to a firm relying on, but it's not like transferring law schools, either.

Anonymous User wrote:Sort of. It's quite common to move around in some firms (Gibson Dunn...), and in many others movement from the headquarters/largest office (usually NYC) to the smaller offices is fairly common and doable if you express interest and are in a needed practice group. Not something to go to a firm relying on, but it's not like transferring law schools, either.

Again, this isn't false, but misleading. I think it would be more accurate to say that at GDC it's not uncommon for an associate to move once between an office in DC, NYC or LA, if the firm has a need for your practice in that office. It's not as if people are zipping around offices all the time, but it certainly is possible to start in LA and move to NYC after a couple of years (remembering you still have to sit for the bar).

I interviewed with a mid-level associate at Jones Day who had just transferred from another office and seemed to indicate it had not been difficult to arrange. Sorry, that's all I've got.

This is encouraging. I am fine with the office where I got an offer, but there are other places I would prefer to live and work.

Renzo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Sort of. It's quite common to move around in some firms (Gibson Dunn...), and in many others movement from the headquarters/largest office (usually NYC) to the smaller offices is fairly common and doable if you express interest and are in a needed practice group. Not something to go to a firm relying on, but it's not like transferring law schools, either.

Again, this isn't false, but misleading. I think it would be more accurate to say that at GDC it's not uncommon for an associate to move once between an office in DC, NYC or LA, if the firm has a need for your practice in that office. It's not as if people are zipping around offices all the time, but it certainly is possible to start in LA and move to NYC after a couple of years (remembering you still have to sit for the bar).

Oh so instead of "quite common" it's "not uncommon." Glad you cleared that up.

MrKappus wrote:

Renzo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Sort of. It's quite common to move around in some firms (Gibson Dunn...), and in many others movement from the headquarters/largest office (usually NYC) to the smaller offices is fairly common and doable if you express interest and are in a needed practice group. Not something to go to a firm relying on, but it's not like transferring law schools, either.

Again, this isn't false, but misleading. I think it would be more accurate to say that at GDC it's not uncommon for an associate to move once between an office in DC, NYC or LA, if the firm has a need for your practice in that office. It's not as if people are zipping around offices all the time, but it certainly is possible to start in LA and move to NYC after a couple of years (remembering you still have to sit for the bar).

Oh so instead of "quite common" it's "not uncommon." Glad you cleared that up.

LOL TYFT.

...

Anonymous User wrote:This is encouraging. I am fine with the office where I got an offer, but there are other places I would prefer to live and work.

It's not that difficult to lateral to other markets (though not necessarily the same firm) -- especially if your first firm is in NYC. It's probably one of the most common reasons people leave in the first place.

Renzo wrote:This is true, but misleading. Changing between large offices at some large firms can in fact be done. However, don't forget that it entails sitting for a new bar exam, and that is not a trifle.

This is misleading, too. You don't always have to sit for a new bar admission. Many states, including New York, have reciprocal admissions after 5 years of practice. More significantly, The District of Columbia Bar has admission by waiver, meaning that they'll admit you as long as you're admitted to another state's bar. (D.C. does not grant waiver for Louisiana or Puerto Rico.)

It's possible to transfer without having to retake the bar, especially if it involves moving to or from D.C. Many people practicing in D.C. will take the N.Y. bar for this reason and then waive into D.C. That way they're already admitted to the N.Y. bar if they want to move to New York...

Anonymous User wrote:

Renzo wrote:This is true, but misleading. Changing between large offices at some large firms can in fact be done. However, don't forget that it entails sitting for a new bar exam, and that is not a trifle.

This is misleading, too. You don't always have to sit for a new bar admission. Many states, including New York, have reciprocal admissions after 5 years of practice. More significantly, the District of Columbia bar has admission by waiver, meaning that they'll admit you as long as you're admitted to another state's bar. (D.C. does not grant waiver for Louisiana or Puerto Rico.)

It's possible to transfer without having to retake the bar, especially if it involves moving to or from D.C. Many people practicing in D.C. will take the N.Y. bar for this reason and then waive into D.C. That way they're already admitted to the N.Y. bar if they want to move to New York...

No doubt DC is a gimmie, and if I were going to work in DC I'd probably take the NY or CA bar just for this reason. But New York, as I understand it, doesn't offer reciprocal admission with all states, and importantly not with California.

Oh so instead of "quite common" it's "not uncommon." Glad you cleared that up.

Well, when you put it that way, it does look like nonsense. But the point I was trying to convey is that yes, GDC and a few others try to make it easy for associates who want to leave a location not to have to leave the firm. However, this is uncommon among firms, and even at GDC it isn't as if associates are just jetting from office to office all the time, or even like they are leaving NY to go to LA for two years and them come back like you might with a firm's foreign offices. They also aren't transferring in and out of small branch offices, since there's far less need. To me, "quite common" makes it sound as if it's the NBA and free-agent lawyers are moving cities every nine months.

The key to getting to NY from states that don't offer reciprocity is the DC bar. If you're starting in California (or Delaware, Florida, or other no reciprocity states) and considering moving to NY at some point you should waive into the DC bar as soon as you pass the bar in the no reciprocity state. NY is reciprocal with DC and DC doesn't require any additional CLE for you to keep up with other than the initial practicing in DC class. When you have practiced for the 5 years that New York mandates, you are then eligible for admission on motion in New York as a member of the DC bar even if you only practiced in the non-reciprocity state for those 5 years as long as you keep your DC admission current.

Note that this does not work the other way around, because the DC bar doesn't qualify you for admission in the non-reciprocity states.

CLS2011 wrote:The key to getting to NY from states that don't offer reciprocity is the DC bar. If you're starting in California (or Delaware, Florida, or other no reciprocity states) and considering moving to NY at some point you should waive into the DC bar as soon as you pass the bar in the no reciprocity state. NY is reciprocal with DC and DC doesn't require any additional CLE for you to keep up with other than the initial practicing in DC class. When you have practiced for the 5 years that New York mandates, you are then eligible for admission on motion in New York as a member of the DC bar even if you only practiced in the non-reciprocity state for those 5 years as long as you keep your DC admission current.

Note that this does not work the other way around, because the DC bar doesn't qualify you for admission in the non-reciprocity states.

There's a great explanation (although, the above is on-spot, too) of this and every reciprocity issue with map-based navigation at SPAM REMOVED.

Hello, I wanted to revive this thread and ask if the market has changed since the time these posts were written. Has it become more common to transfer within Big Law offices? I’m particularly interested in transferring from a bigger city (LA, DC, Houston) to New York.

Thanks!

It all depends on the firm and what practice group you're in. At my old firm my practice group in the NY office worked seamlessly with the same practice group in our DC office. We'd regularly staff matters with DC partners and NY associates, and vise versa. People in the group moved between these offices pretty frequently. If your firm/group doesn't regularly staff people from different offices together, I could see it being much more difficult.