Quinn Emanuel v. Boies Schiller Forum

[Anonymous User]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

Which office?

[Anonymous User]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

I did not get an offer. Apparently, and this is coming from the office's hiring partner, one of the named partners must sign off on all new hires and laterals. The office I interviewed with said they passed me along to the senior partners and I did not get a favorable decision. It took about two months after CB to receive my decision. I have no idea what the CB/offer ratio might be because I never asked that question nor have I heard of any of my peers getting in at Boies. I got my interview mostly through connections and not through my school's OCI.

I do know that they barely hire people each year and that permanent offers, especially in the smaller offices, are given to only about 1/2 to 2/3 of the summers. The office I interviewed with didn't even have a summer. I have stayed in touch with the office because I am hoping to get in after clerking. They pretty much require it, even for the associates that get in straight from school. One associate told me that he was strongly encouraged after two years at the firm to get a federal district clerkship.

Who did you interview with at the Miami office?

[gulcregret]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

I did not get an offer. Apparently, and this is coming from the office's hiring partner, one of the named partners must sign off on all new hires and laterals. The office I interviewed with said they passed me along to the senior partners and I did not get a favorable decision. It took about two months after CB to receive my decision. I have no idea what the CB/offer ratio might be because I never asked that question nor have I heard of any of my peers getting in at Boies. I got my interview mostly through connections and not through my school's OCI.

I do know that they barely hire people each year and that permanent offers, especially in the smaller offices, are given to only about 1/2 to 2/3 of the summers. The office I interviewed with didn't even have a summer. I have stayed in touch with the office because I am hoping to get in after clerking. They pretty much require it, even for the associates that get in straight from school. One associate told me that he was strongly encouraged after two years at the firm to get a federal district clerkship.

Who did you interview with at the Miami office?

Why would it be the Miami office?

[Anonymous User]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

Which office?

I'd rather not say. One of the smaller ones.

[itbdvorm]

for what it's worth, my impression of people's experiences is that Boies is a much, much better place to be an associate at (though still maybe awful given hours, the work is better)

[Anonymous User]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

I did not get an offer. Apparently, and this is coming from the office's hiring partner, one of the named partners must sign off on all new hires and laterals. The office I interviewed with said they passed me along to the senior partners and I did not get a favorable decision. It took about two months after CB to receive my decision. I have no idea what the CB/offer ratio might be because I never asked that question nor have I heard of any of my peers getting in at Boies. I got my interview mostly through connections and not through my school's OCI.

I do know that they barely hire people each year and that permanent offers, especially in the smaller offices, are given to only about 1/2 to 2/3 of the summers. The office I interviewed with didn't even have a summer. I have stayed in touch with the office because I am hoping to get in after clerking. They pretty much require it, even for the associates that get in straight from school. One associate told me that he was strongly encouraged after two years at the firm to get a federal district clerkship.

Who did you interview with at the Miami office?

Why would it be the Miami office?

I forgot about the Fort Lauderdale office. Was it Miami or Ft. Lauderdale?

[Anonymous User]

Which firm is better respected for its litigation ability? Also, which firm would you want on your resume if you were to lateral?

[gulcregret]

There's also an Orlando office and a Hollywood office. I'd rather not say which office specifically in this forum because my other posts are pretty revealing, but feel free to PM me for more info.

[Anonymous User]

Which firm is better respected for its litigation ability? Also, which firm would you want on your resume if you were to lateral?

+1

[Anonymous User]

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

[englawyer]

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

i actually like this story for two reasons. first, a name partner is doing the interview. second, a law firm is actually transparent and honest about its recruiting policies. If i literally had 0% chance, I would want to know ASAP so I don't make an ass of myself but I guess that's just me

[Anonymous User]

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

lolUrquhart

[Grizz]

QUINN REMAINS

[nleefer]

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

At least at my school, Quinn was very upfront about the grade cutoffs. In the firm information section they basically said don't bid if you don't have X grades. I assume it was similar at CLS, and if so I'm not sure why the median candidate would be surprised by this.

[Anonymous User]

At least at my school, Quinn was very upfront about the grade cutoffs. In the firm information section they basically said don't bid if you don't have X grades. I assume it was similar at CLS, and if so I'm not sure why the median candidate would be surprised by this.

(1) There's no such information at CLS. Maybe that's the school's fault rather than the firm's (i.e., CLS did not allow them to say something like that), but regardless it's not there.

(2) Maybe so, but if I were the interviewer, I would kill 20 minutes having a conversation with the kid, instead of basically saying "no, sorry, get out."

[DoubleChecks]

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

i actually like this story for two reasons. first, a name partner is doing the interview. second, a law firm is actually transparent and honest about its recruiting policies. If i literally had 0% chance, I would want to know ASAP so I don't make an ass of myself but I guess that's just me

hearing this story would rub me the wrong way too, if i were looking at the firm

and while i too appreciate interviewers being honest and genuine, you can do it without being an ass as well -- not saying thats how it went down in that interview, maybe interviewer wasnt asinine at all, but one could certainly be less quotable (in a bad way)

[Anonymous User]

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

i actually like this story for two reasons. first, a name partner is doing the interview. second, a law firm is actually transparent and honest about its recruiting policies. If i literally had 0% chance, I would want to know ASAP so I don't make an ass of myself but I guess that's just me

hearing this story would rub me the wrong way too, if i were looking at the firm

and while i too appreciate interviewers being honest and genuine, you can do it without being an ass as well -- not saying thats how it went down in that interview, maybe interviewer wasnt asinine at all, but one could certainly be less quotable (in a bad way)

This definitely rubs me the wrong way. Although I do appreciate the honesty (I agree- interviewing when you're below a strict cutoff is a complete waste of time), if they really wanted to play it like that, make it clear during the bidding stage. Don't make people waste bids on you, warn them away!

[Anonymous User]

On the "arrogant" vein, true story from last year at CLS: Quinn name partner is doing EIP interviews. Candidate who is around median (and ended up getting a relatively good job) comes in. Partner asks for candidate's transcript. Partner informs candidate that he is below the grade cutoff and will not be getting a callback. He then says that the candidate is welcome to "continue the dog and pony show" and stick around to chat if he wants, or he can leave, since it is close to the end of the day.

They treated me quite nicely, but hearing this story really rubbed me the wrong way.

i actually like this story for two reasons. first, a name partner is doing the interview. second, a law firm is actually transparent and honest about its recruiting policies. If i literally had 0% chance, I would want to know ASAP so I don't make an ass of myself but I guess that's just me

hearing this story would rub me the wrong way too, if i were looking at the firm

and while i too appreciate interviewers being honest and genuine, you can do it without being an ass as well -- not saying thats how it went down in that interview, maybe interviewer wasnt asinine at all, but one could certainly be less quotable (in a bad way)

This definitely rubs me the wrong way. Although I do appreciate the honesty (I agree- interviewing when you're below a strict cutoff is a complete waste of time), if they really wanted to play it like that, make it clear during the bidding stage. Don't make people waste bids on you, warn them away!

I completely agree. I'm honest to firms - I won't interview with a firm that's below my strict Vault cutoff limit. In fact, I told Dechert, "let's be honest. For me, it was either see you or cancel my entire schedule and miss Cravath. Lets stop this show right now. No, I don't even need your firm flyer. Yes, I'll take your awesome earbuds."


For all the super stressed out people, relax I'm joking.

[imchuckbass58]

I completely agree. I'm honest to firms - I won't interview with a firm that's below my strict Vault cutoff limit. In fact, I told Dechert, "let's be honest. For me, it was either see you or cancel my entire schedule and miss Cravath. Lets stop this show right now. No, I don't even need your firm flyer. Yes, I'll take your awesome earbuds."


For all the super stressed out people, relax I'm joking.

Dechert gave out earbuds?

[Anonymous User]

I completely agree. I'm honest to firms - I won't interview with a firm that's below my strict Vault cutoff limit. In fact, I told Dechert, "let's be honest. For me, it was either see you or cancel my entire schedule and miss Cravath. Lets stop this show right now. No, I don't even need your firm flyer. Yes, I'll take your awesome earbuds."


For all the super stressed out people, relax I'm joking.

Dechert gave out earbuds?

Amazing earbuds.

[Anonymous User]

Want to do litigation, be with good people, and learn. Opinions?

I wanted to revive this old post because I'm in a similar position with regard to these 2 firms and post-clerkship employment. I want to be in NYC and do litigation, so they're natural options.

BSF still pays only the $50K clerkship bonus, while QE pays $105,000. BSF is also known to be a little cheap re fringe benefits, like relocation costs (which for me are around $3k easily). The BSF bonus formula in theory might pay more after the stub year, but it would require A LOT of hours to overcome the clerkship bonus differential, plus the fact that QE does also pay year-end bonuses ($30k for the hour range that would be realistic for NY litigation), plus the fact that the rumor is that BSF will alter its bonus formula to pay more to senior associates and less to juniors, and is pretty contingent on things like the firm's annual performance.

Can anyone speak to the working style/day-to-day life of a junior at these firms? Or have thoughts on the pay structures? Or which you'd pick if your goal is to work as a NY litigator at least 2-3 years?

[Anonymous User]

Want to do litigation, be with good people, and learn. Opinions?

I wanted to revive this old post because I'm in a similar position with regard to these 2 firms and post-clerkship employment. I want to be in NYC and do litigation, so they're natural options.

BSF still pays only the $50K clerkship bonus, while QE pays $105,000. BSF is also known to be a little cheap re fringe benefits, like relocation costs (which for me are around $3k easily). The BSF bonus formula in theory might pay more after the stub year, but it would require A LOT of hours to overcome the clerkship bonus differential, plus the fact that QE does also pay year-end bonuses ($30k for the hour range that would be realistic for NY litigation), plus the fact that the rumor is that BSF will alter its bonus formula to pay more to senior associates and less to juniors, and is pretty contingent on things like the firm's annual performance.

Can anyone speak to the working style/day-to-day life of a junior at these firms? Or have thoughts on the pay structures? Or which you'd pick if your goal is to work as a NY litigator at least 2-3 years?

Bumping, would appreciate anyone's thoughts!

I'm at BSF (not NYC, but I've worked with people there) and have dealt with Quinn lawyers in several cases (and have friends there). Your day-to-day as a BSF junior can vary a fair amount depending on which partners and what cases you wind up working on, but in general there is a fair amount of substantive experience and a generally friendly culture among associates. Partner treatment/mentoring varies. My impression of Quinn is that there is more an internally competitive culture. Quinn also seems to staff their cases more heavily which can be both good and bad, but my impression is that there is more of the bad (getting stuck in document review hell for an extended time period, being a footsoldier on a huge team). BSF has some of that as well of course, depending on the case, but it's relatively rare.

In general I would expect an associate under BSF's comp model to make up the $50k gap over the course of 2 years and almost certainly over 3 years, but you are right that the model may change. I don't think it is likely to change that much for juniors but it's hard to say for certain.

Both are good firms and the differences between them in NYC are smaller than in other markets. Happy to answer any other BSF questions.

[Anonymous User]

For the current BSF associate: when you joined the firm, were you disappointed/surprised to learn how they can be a little stingy when it comes to benefits that are standard at other firms? For example, you're expected to use your own cell phone (no firm help on data plans, let alone the actual phone), relocation costs, etc.?

Also, to the extent you can say, what's the educated guess about when BSF will change its bonus formula, and why do you believe it won't change that much for juniors in particular? My understanding was that the formula currently favors juniors too much and senior associates too little, so the whole point of the change is to correct that by cutting from the juniors to give more to the seniors.

Finally, BSF advertises the fact that junior associates can get 6-figure bonuses. Is that them just talking about outlier individuals who billed truly crazy hours in a given year, or is there a fair bunch of juniors who actually get such high bonuses, compensating for the low clerkship bonus ("low" in comparison to lit shops like QE, Susman, Kellogg, Selenda & Gay, etc.)?

Thanks very much for answering these questions!

[Anonymous User]

For the current BSF associate: when you joined the firm, were you disappointed/surprised to learn how they can be a little stingy when it comes to benefits that are standard at other firms? For example, you're expected to use your own cell phone (no firm help on data plans, let alone the actual phone), relocation costs, etc.?

Also, to the extent you can say, what's the educated guess about when BSF will change its bonus formula, and why do you believe it won't change that much for juniors in particular? My understanding was that the formula currently favors juniors too much and senior associates too little, so the whole point of the change is to correct that by cutting from the juniors to give more to the seniors.

Finally, BSF advertises the fact that junior associates can get 6-figure bonuses. Is that them just talking about outlier individuals who billed truly crazy hours in a given year, or is there a fair bunch of juniors who actually get such high bonuses, compensating for the low clerkship bonus ("low" in comparison to lit shops like QE, Susman, Kellogg, Selenda & Gay, etc.)?

Thanks very much for answering these questions!

Some more perspective from a former NYC associate.

I think BSF will feel like a more unique environment and less "biglaw-y" than quinn for the reasons the previous poster listed: the pay, the size of teams, and the variety of kinds of cases. For me, the choice between the two was easy, but I understand your hesitation, particularly in light of the quinn clerkship bonus. I still think BSF is the clear choice, though.

As to your questions, the stinginess on basics, like the phone plan, does cause some grumbling once in awhile, but all those complaints feel silly around bonus time. At other times, they feel like real gripes, and some things, like insufficient IT support, is a real issue. I can't speak to the changes to the comp formula, but since you won't be a first year, reduction in junior bonuses won't affect you as much as it would affect first years. As to whether 6-figure bonuses are a norm: in NYC, they absolutely are, even for first years.

[Anonymous User]

Which firm is better respected for its litigation ability? Also, which firm would you want on your resume if you were to lateral?

+1

This is purely anecdotal but I was a para @ Quinn prior to law school and did an arbitration against BSF. BSF did a bunch of dumb stuff that left me pretty unimpressed. Wasn't just me either, I watched the client yell at Schiller after a particularly egregious day.