V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

Hey - just wanted to re-ask this in case it got missed. No worries if you don't feel comfortable answering, of course.
What are your thoughts on transactional associates pursuing federal (DC or COA) clerkships? Totally useless? Does it make it better if the clerkship is right after law school as opposed to a few years out?

I don't think a clerkship is useless at all...but I think stopping transactional practice to do a clerkship is a little silly.

I know many excellent transactional lawyers who clerked.

[Anonymous User]

Do you perceive 1L Diversity Summers any differently from regular 1L Summers in the 2L OCI process?
(Assuming both are for equal length)

Do you perceive them any differently if they're non-URM's who receive them?

[Anonymous User]

Junior at a V50. I started off the year billing pretty steadily at 40-50 hours/week. Now I've got nothing to do. I've tried the whole asking around for work but people either don't answer the emails I send, or say they don't have anything.

Should I be concerned? I always make sure to let folks know when I have availability, but I also don't want to be a pest.

[itbdvorm]

Do you perceive 1L Diversity Summers any differently from regular 1L Summers in the 2L OCI process?
(Assuming both are for equal length)

Do you perceive them any differently if they're non-URM's who receive them?

Probably about the same. Still, more of a "nice to have" than "need to have" given grade requirements for us

Not sure how / why a non-URM is getting a diversity summer, but hey

I'll also say that most 1L summers seem to be URMs generally (or at least did) - not sure whether that's changed

[itbdvorm]

Junior at a V50. I started off the year billing pretty steadily at 40-50 hours/week. Now I've got nothing to do. I've tried the whole asking around for work but people either don't answer the emails I send, or say they don't have anything.

Should I be concerned? I always make sure to let folks know when I have availability, but I also don't want to be a pest.

How junior? I would only be worried if everyone else your level/your group is cranking

[Anonymous User]

Do you perceive 1L Diversity Summers any differently from regular 1L Summers in the 2L OCI process?
(Assuming both are for equal length)

Do you perceive them any differently if they're non-URM's who receive them?

Probably about the same. Still, more of a "nice to have" than "need to have" given grade requirements for us

Not sure how / why a non-URM is getting a diversity summer, but hey

I'll also say that most 1L summers seem to be URMs generally (or at least did) - not sure whether that's changed

Ah I see. I was mostly inquiring w/r/t the size of the bump for 2L OCI since I get that it's not a make it/break it kind of deal.

I know that the trend has been that 1L summers tend be for URM's so I was wondering if diversity summers would be perceived as less meritocratic given their nature (and therefore less of a proxy for aptitude & consequent bump for 2L OCI). The reason I ask about non-URM status is because for the cases when an applicant is a minority, but not a traditionally underrepresented one (e.g. Asian/Middle Eastern/Russian), I was wondering if that assumption would be weaker and lend itself more strongly to the inference that this kid is just good.

I'm currently picking between three offers, one of which is a diversity summer, and I'm trying to figure out which one will give the most benefit for 2L OCI, if there is any difference at all. (Assuming all are of relative prestige in the target market)

[Anonymous User]

How bad is switching jobs every 2 (or fewer) years? Suppose the following resume lands on your desk for a white collar associate: 1.5 years at a big law firm in white collar, 1 year in U.S. SEC, 1.5 years at another big law firm in white collar, 1 year at state AG.

[Anonymous User]

0L here on a gap year before starting LS this fall.
I got into a T6 and I'm thinking about quitting my current job and taking some time off, maybe travel a bit and do a lot of reading to prepare for LS (Majored in a science UG and I felt that I missed out on a lot of reading). My question is, would a 6-month gap on my resume be a problem for OCI? If I get asked about what I did during this gap, would "reading to prepare for LS and traveling" be a sufficient answer or will it be frowned upon?

[lymenheimer]

0L here on a gap year before starting LS this fall.
I got into a T6 and I'm thinking about quitting my current job and taking some time off, maybe travel a bit and do a lot of reading to prepare for LS (Majored in a science UG and I felt that I missed out on a lot of reading). My question is, would a 6-month gap on my resume be a problem for OCI? If I get asked about what I did during this gap, would "reading to prepare for LS and traveling" be a sufficient answer or will it be frowned upon?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=170603

[Anonymous User]

How low can your hours be as a first year? When do people start to notice if you're under 1800/1900/2000?

[itbdvorm]

Do you perceive 1L Diversity Summers any differently from regular 1L Summers in the 2L OCI process?
(Assuming both are for equal length)

Do you perceive them any differently if they're non-URM's who receive them?

Probably about the same. Still, more of a "nice to have" than "need to have" given grade requirements for us

Not sure how / why a non-URM is getting a diversity summer, but hey

I'll also say that most 1L summers seem to be URMs generally (or at least did) - not sure whether that's changed

Ah I see. I was mostly inquiring w/r/t the size of the bump for 2L OCI since I get that it's not a make it/break it kind of deal.

I know that the trend has been that 1L summers tend be for URM's so I was wondering if diversity summers would be perceived as less meritocratic given their nature (and therefore less of a proxy for aptitude & consequent bump for 2L OCI). The reason I ask about non-URM status is because for the cases when an applicant is a minority, but not a traditionally underrepresented one (e.g. Asian/Middle Eastern/Russian), I was wondering if that assumption would be weaker and lend itself more strongly to the inference that this kid is just good.

I'm currently picking between three offers, one of which is a diversity summer, and I'm trying to figure out which one will give the most benefit for 2L OCI, if there is any difference at all. (Assuming all are of relative prestige in the target market)

I don't think you should read too much into it. Take the job that you think looks the best/gives you the best experience.

[itbdvorm]

How bad is switching jobs every 2 (or fewer) years? Suppose the following resume lands on your desk for a white collar associate: 1.5 years at a big law firm in white collar, 1 year in U.S. SEC, 1.5 years at another big law firm in white collar, 1 year at state AG.

Doesn't look too wonderful. Would have questions.

[itbdvorm]

0L here on a gap year before starting LS this fall.
I got into a T6 and I'm thinking about quitting my current job and taking some time off, maybe travel a bit and do a lot of reading to prepare for LS (Majored in a science UG and I felt that I missed out on a lot of reading). My question is, would a 6-month gap on my resume be a problem for OCI? If I get asked about what I did during this gap, would "reading to prepare for LS and traveling" be a sufficient answer or will it be frowned upon?

totally fine

[itbdvorm]

How low can your hours be as a first year? When do people start to notice if you're under 1800/1900/2000?

really depends on overall business of group. if you are saying no to work all the time while the group is busy (or not pulling your weight on projects) people will notice

[MaxMcMann]

If you had to ballpark in a given year, what percent of yours weekends fell into the following categories:
1) Totally free/answering emails for an hour or so
2) A few hours of work but less than 8
3) A regular workday (assuming about 12 hours)
4) Grinding through the entire weekend with no breaks and barely any sleep

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for answering questions. What is the appropriate time to lateral from federal government agency (transactional practice) to firm? 3-5 years? Earlier?

[candidlatke]

To what extent are the GPA thresholds enforced with regards to 2L OCI?

My understanding is that there are certain hard floors, but say your firm states that it requires applicants to be in the top 10% of their class from say MVP. To what extent can personality/interview skills/networking&connections function to mitigate grades? Would it stretch down to say top 20% for someone who's otherworldly charismatic/unique but otherwise bar anyone below that? (or provide 5% wiggleroom/10% wiggleroom/15%/etc.)

Or is this something that's more of a case-by-case basis and firm by firm basis? (And if the latter and if you can put it generally, how does your firm broach it?)

[itbdvorm]

Rough answers in bold:

If you had to ballpark in a given year, what percent of yours weekends fell into the following categories:
1) Totally free/answering emails for an hour or so 30-40%
2) A few hours of work but less than 8 40-50%
3) A regular workday (assuming about 12 hours) 5-15%
4) Grinding through the entire weekend with no breaks and barely any sleep 2-5%

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for answering questions. What is the appropriate time to lateral from federal government agency (transactional practice) to firm? 3-5 years? Earlier?

Depends on your goals/needs/desires. If you're targeting a partner position long-term, that's probably about right, but you could also lateral as a counsel (or partner) with a bit more seniority. But all experience-dependant

[itbdvorm]

To what extent are the GPA thresholds enforced with regards to 2L OCI?

My understanding is that there are certain hard floors, but say your firm states that it requires applicants to be in the top 10% of their class from say MVP. To what extent can personality/interview skills/networking&connections function to mitigate grades? Would it stretch down to say top 20% for someone who's otherworldly charismatic/unique but otherwise bar anyone below that? (or provide 5% wiggleroom/10% wiggleroom/15%/etc.)

Or is this something that's more of a case-by-case basis and firm by firm basis? (And if the latter and if you can put it generally, how does your firm broach it?)

I've discussed this a few times. In general, you should assume that we're setting grade point thresholds at a level where we could fill our callback target with people above it (with several to spare). So in order to make it if you're below our thresholds, you have to be not just "better" enough to pass the level...but to pass people already above the level too.

Do we make exceptions? Sure. But it's doubtful you are special enough to overcome it. Remember the overall goal is to get a job - not THE job - and while firms are better than others (ours is the best of course) the difference between one AmLaw 100 firm and another for what may very well be a short-term firm career is not enough to risk getting shut out entirely.

If you think you are "top firm material" anyway, go to a somewhat lower-ranked firm and be the best associate there. Then lateral up.

[Anonymous User]

Out of curiosity, how would a firm feel about someone that, prior to LS, worked for their family's business - i.e. one started by their family with the same name - provided they attend a T10 law school and meet the general grade and other LS related requirements - i.e. law review or whatever? How would you view someone that (barring other major faults) worked for several years at their family company (real estate holding/investment firm with commercial assets but not big enough where they would ever be utilizing the services of a V### firm) before moving on to LS?

I ask, as I remember encountering some skepticism when I interviewed at real estate positions in banks. A lot of them expressed the concern that I was just using the training with the intention to go back to the family company.

If asked, my honest response would be a combination of:
-some obligation led me there
-family challenges kept me there a bit longer (could get into detail but wouldn't be appropriate for a job interview)
-left because I felt unchallenged/unstimulated, didn't see the room for growth, and did not think the company would survive the transition to our generation.

edit: thanks for any and all insight

[itbdvorm]

Out of curiosity, how would a firm feel about someone that, prior to LS, worked for their family's business - i.e. one started by their family with the same name - provided they attend a T10 law school and meet the general grade and other LS related requirements - i.e. law review or whatever? How would you view someone that (barring other major faults) worked for several years at their family company (real estate holding/investment firm with commercial assets but not big enough where they would ever be utilizing the services of a V### firm) before moving on to LS?

I ask, as I remember encountering some skepticism when I interviewed at real estate positions in banks. A lot of them expressed the concern that I was just using the training with the intention to go back to the family company.

If asked, my honest response would be a combination of:
-some obligation led me there
-family challenges kept me there a bit longer (could get into detail but wouldn't be appropriate for a job interview)
-left because I felt unchallenged/unstimulated, didn't see the room for growth, and did not think the company would survive the transition to our generation.

edit: thanks for any and all insight

I mean, you never know what people might do. Who's to say that you wouldn't work here for four years, go back, make it a much bigger company, hire us to do the IPO one day? Not a terrible thing by any stretch.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for answering questions!

If you are transitioned out as a junior without much experience (ostensibly for performance and/or personality reasons) is it pretty unlikely to get another big law position? If so, what are the realistic options?

[itbdvorm]

Thank you for answering questions!

If you are transitioned out as a junior without much experience (ostensibly for performance and/or personality reasons) is it pretty unlikely to get another big law position? If so, what are the realistic options?

Depends on where/when/why.

We've had people transition from us to elsewhere. I doubt it would/will work for them long-term, but it might.

More realistic is to try to go in-house somewhere - banks, etc., are always hiring junior folks, especially in compliance. But F500 companies a little further afield are always good options

[FSK]

You got any good weekend plans?