V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:15 am

itbdvorm wrote: We've had people transition from us to elsewhere. I doubt it would/will work for them long-term, but it might.

More realistic is to try to go in-house somewhere - banks, etc., are always hiring junior folks, especially in compliance. But F500 companies a little further afield are always good options
It's just troubling to be in this position. And unfair. Other law firms tend to want experience, and so do in-house places. My sense is that there is a shortage of midlevels and maybe senior associates but not really junior ones atm.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by shao » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:19 pm

Thank you for answering the questions. This is an amazing thread.

I was wondering if the grade cut-offs, or expectations for international (non-URM, let's say, Asian) non-native speaker students are higher? If so, how much higher does it generally get? Are there any other special requirements? How much does his or her oral English during the interview matter? Are other foreign languages, such as Chinese or Japanese a huge advantage, or just a little bit, or that it doesn't matter at all?

Quite a lot questions... Thank you for your time.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by stoopkid13 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:06 pm

Is there any advantage to publishing a Note if you are not interested in clerking or academia?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote: We've had people transition from us to elsewhere. I doubt it would/will work for them long-term, but it might.

More realistic is to try to go in-house somewhere - banks, etc., are always hiring junior folks, especially in compliance. But F500 companies a little further afield are always good options
It's just troubling to be in this position. And unfair. Other law firms tend to want experience, and so do in-house places. My sense is that there is a shortage of midlevels and maybe senior associates but not really junior ones atm.
"fair" / "unfair" is a difficult thing to assess when it happens to you. Life is inherently unfair (in case you didn't know). While there obviously were many "unfair" things that happened over the past 10 years, at least at firms like ours people actually survive much longer than would be "fair" in other circumstances.

Regardless - my message remains relatively similar. If you're in this position, hustle hustle hustle to make things happen. The sooner you get over your feeling about what has happened to you and the sooner you can rationally assess next steps the better off you'll be.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:01 pm

shao wrote:Thank you for answering the questions. This is an amazing thread.

I was wondering if the grade cut-offs, or expectations for international (non-URM, let's say, Asian) non-native speaker students are higher? If so, how much higher does it generally get? Are there any other special requirements? How much does his or her oral English during the interview matter? Are other foreign languages, such as Chinese or Japanese a huge advantage, or just a little bit, or that it doesn't matter at all?

Quite a lot questions... Thank you for your time.
I personally expect perfect English, unless we are specifically contemplating some sort of training period before sending an individual to one of our other offices (and even then, pretty damn close). This job is difficult enough with superb English language skills - adding a comprehension barrier makes things tricky indeed.

Other language skills advantages depends on firms/practices/etc. Chinese skills were more valuable before the government changed the rules on capital outflows. Still probably useful.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:02 pm

stoopkid13 wrote:Is there any advantage to publishing a Note if you are not interested in clerking or academia?
"Sure"

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:46 am

What are your thoughts on the culture/work environment at Cahill? How would you compare it to its levfin peers for someone considering a lateral move?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:26 pm

A few related questions:
1. Is it ever too late to lateral from government/a clerkship?
2. How do the hiring criteria change depending on years of experience?
3. At what point are laterals assumed to stick with or specialize in the field they are leaving?

Thanks!

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are your thoughts on the culture/work environment at Cahill? How would you compare it to its levfin peers for someone considering a lateral move?
Honestly don't know enough about the inner workings, though I like those guys. Sense is obviously that they have a very strong practice, but I'm sure they work the juniors quite hard. Probably pretty comparable.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A few related questions:
1. Is it ever too late to lateral from government/a clerkship?
2. How do the hiring criteria change depending on years of experience?
3. At what point are laterals assumed to stick with or specialize in the field they are leaving?

Thanks!
1 - depends on what you mean by "too late" - there's probably a "no-man's land" where you're not quite senior enough to go straight to counsel/partner, but too senior to be elevated "on time" absent special circumstances (like years 7-8). but that's not a "never going to happen", just a "two more years probably needed"

2 - dramatically - much more firm's need-based

3 - depends on field and why leaving

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:08 pm

If you sent me a PM asking a few specific M&A questions - please turn off the prohibition on PMs and let me know when you have done so, otherwise I can't reply :)

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:54 pm

Hi OP thanks for your help all these years. For a junior associate who has great credentials but was let go for financial reasons, how should this junior explain the situation in the interview process after the profile is taken off the website?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:14 am

OP, thanks a ton.

I have a musculoskeletal physical injury that, on my worst days, requires the use of a cane. It's not likely to get any better without surgery but the surgery has a nonzero chance of leaving me more disabled than I already am. How would a candidate be viewed who entered an interview with a cane? Is this something I should be prepared to explain or will I more likely be treated as any other candidate on paper?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:01 am

Thanks OP. If someone comes from a non-professional background (first person in family to go to college or that sort of thing), how should they handle that in the interview? I've heard that being seen as working class hurts you during the interview and application process because it automatically signals at least on an implicit level that you don't belong/fit and that there is some handicap to you compared to someone who didn't have to "struggle" to just get to law school. Sometimes when interviewers found my socioeconomic background, they entered that "aww you're trying good for you" type of attitude even though I have good credentials. On the other hand, you can't really avoid it because you have to have a natural conversation with the interviewers and get to know each other. So how does one go about that?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:36 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A few related questions:
1. Is it ever too late to lateral from government/a clerkship?
2. How do the hiring criteria change depending on years of experience?
3. At what point are laterals assumed to stick with or specialize in the field they are leaving?

Thanks!
3 - depends on field and why leaving
Let's say federal environmental enforcement, pending deep agency funding cuts.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by MaxMcMann » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:13 pm

So I'm reading Pedigree, as you recommended sometime in the past 150 pages. Great recommendation!

As a first generation American/law student, I find it very useful and generally in keeping with what friends at elite schools describe. Added bonus: reading the recruiting processes of firms described through the eyes of a sociologist adds some comedy to the mix.

One thing I'm surprised by: supposedly some top ranking firms pride themselves on being "scrappy", which in the context of the book means more tolerant of (still high ranking students from) non top tier schools and even inclined to negatively perceive stereotypically "preppy" activities.

Judging by your implied emphasis on pedigree, I assume your firm is not one of them. From what I understand, the preppiest reputation is held by Sullivan & Cromwell.

Do you know of any firms in the V20 or so that have "scrappy" reputations? I'm thinking Skadden, Weil and White & Case (and possibly Cahill).

My methodology is simple: I took the center of the Venn diagram from V20s where Fordham, Cardozo and BLS place relatively well, and in Skadden's case I'd say that's upheld by general reputation.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:28 pm

Can you describe how partners deal with associates who ask to change his or her practice group? How would the supervising/practice group partner of the associate feel/do when told the news?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi OP thanks for your help all these years. For a junior associate who has great credentials but was let go for financial reasons, how should this junior explain the situation in the interview process after the profile is taken off the website?
I think in as straightforward a manner possible - don't sugarcoat but indicate that they explained it was for economic reasons

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, thanks a ton.

I have a musculoskeletal physical injury that, on my worst days, requires the use of a cane. It's not likely to get any better without surgery but the surgery has a nonzero chance of leaving me more disabled than I already am. How would a candidate be viewed who entered an interview with a cane? Is this something I should be prepared to explain or will I more likely be treated as any other candidate on paper?
I think you'll be treated the same. I've recommended offers to two comparable folks I recall in the past

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks OP. If someone comes from a non-professional background (first person in family to go to college or that sort of thing), how should they handle that in the interview? I've heard that being seen as working class hurts you during the interview and application process because it automatically signals at least on an implicit level that you don't belong/fit and that there is some handicap to you compared to someone who didn't have to "struggle" to just get to law school. Sometimes when interviewers found my socioeconomic background, they entered that "aww you're trying good for you" type of attitude even though I have good credentials. On the other hand, you can't really avoid it because you have to have a natural conversation with the interviewers and get to know each other. So how does one go about that?
Straightforward, proud but not boasting, act like you belong because you do. Lots of places will view as a plus, as you won't be some entitled kid quitting at the first sign of adversity...

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A few related questions:
1. Is it ever too late to lateral from government/a clerkship?
2. How do the hiring criteria change depending on years of experience?
3. At what point are laterals assumed to stick with or specialize in the field they are leaving?

Thanks!
3 - depends on field and why leaving
Let's say federal environmental enforcement, pending deep agency funding cuts.
Hah. Well, leaving to do something else will make your story less compelling than leaving to do enviro work

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:54 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:So I'm reading Pedigree, as you recommended sometime in the past 150 pages. Great recommendation!

As a first generation American/law student, I find it very useful and generally in keeping with what friends at elite schools describe. Added bonus: reading the recruiting processes of firms described through the eyes of a sociologist adds some comedy to the mix.

One thing I'm surprised by: supposedly some top ranking firms pride themselves on being "scrappy", which in the context of the book means more tolerant of (still high ranking students from) non top tier schools and even inclined to negatively perceive stereotypically "preppy" activities.

Judging by your implied emphasis on pedigree, I assume your firm is not one of them. From what I understand, the preppiest reputation is held by Sullivan & Cromwell.

Do you know of any firms in the V20 or so that have "scrappy" reputations? I'm thinking Skadden, Weil and White & Case (and possibly Cahill).

My methodology is simple: I took the center of the Venn diagram from V20s where Fordham, Cardozo and BLS place relatively well, and in Skadden's case I'd say that's upheld by general reputation.
I'd say historically Jewish and non-NYC HQ'd firms are your best bet re: scrappiness. Skadden, Weil, Paul Weiss, Latham, Kirkland. Cahill too. If White & Case falls into that category today things have changed.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by itbdvorm » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can you describe how partners deal with associates who ask to change his or her practice group? How would the supervising/practice group partner of the associate feel/do when told the news?
Disappointed (if well liked) or overjoyed (if not). It's a straightforward conversation usually - goal is to either make you happy in a different group and keep you, or encourage you to go away

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:49 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can you describe how partners deal with associates who ask to change his or her practice group? How would the supervising/practice group partner of the associate feel/do when told the news?
Disappointed (if well liked) or overjoyed (if not). It's a straightforward conversation usually - goal is to either make you happy in a different group and keep you, or encourage you to go away
Do you think it is better to tell the practice group partner first as a matter of courtesy or talk to the Managing Partner first who promised that associates can talk to him about switching groups? This is in the context of the supervising partner having said NO to other associates and experienced about 4-5 associated quitting on him. There is a chance this partner might outright fire the associate for asking.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:27 am

I graduated from a T14 without a job. I have a gap in my resume (in which I did a school-funded fellowship + contract attorney work) for many months following graduation. Thereafter, I went to a small firm before I lateraled into biglaw.

What do biglaw interviewers think of someone like me? Will my gap/small firm start be considered a flaw to my candidacy at firms going forward, compared with people who started out in biglaw? I've been asked about it at interviews, and obviously it didn't bar me from getting biglaw, but I'm wondering how much it'll hurt me as time goes by.

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