I would suspect a decent number of them were pushed out. I know one person we asked to leave wound up at a comparable firm.Martin Brody wrote:People are deluding themselves that the grass is greener. Also firm 2 doesn't know how many hours you billed at firm 1. So you get a clean slate.Anonymous User wrote:I am noticing a lot of lateral movement from friends and colleagues, but they often seem to land on the same rank firm, same group and same city. Do you know what causes these moves? I do not get for example the point of moving from 1 NYC corporate v25 to another v25. Am I missing something?
V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
What would you attribute your ability to be so close to flawless and do very advanced work to? Do you have a particular method for approaching work, did you re-read work 10000 times?itbdvorm wrote:Truly flawless doesn't exist. But extremely few typos, and doing very advanced work relative to my class year.redsox550 wrote:Can you describe what flawless means in this context? Never a typo? Never any comments to your work? Never missed a single thing?itbdvorm wrote:I was extraordinarily efficient and flawless as a junior. That meant that EVERY partner wanted in on me.Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Luck?redsox550 wrote:What would you attribute your ability to be so close to flawless and do very advanced work to? Do you have a particular method for approaching work, did you re-read work 10000 times?itbdvorm wrote:Truly flawless doesn't exist. But extremely few typos, and doing very advanced work relative to my class year.redsox550 wrote:Can you describe what flawless means in this context? Never a typo? Never any comments to your work? Never missed a single thing?itbdvorm wrote:I was extraordinarily efficient and flawless as a junior. That meant that EVERY partner wanted in on me.Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?
Honestly, no idea. Maybe this was just really the right job for me. I was always good at noticing typos and such, and had a good understanding of legal dynamics and how to get deals done. I worked my ass off, but I also think some of it came naturally.
For most folks I think that won't be the case. So would advise creating a system to fake it til you make it.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
How do you normally approach reviewing a first-year associate after only six months? I received what seemed to me to be over-the-top positive reviews, but it's hard to tell what's genuine, and what's standard practice so as to not scare off the new associates.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Enthusiasm/eagerness/commitment/proofreading are about 90% of it.Anonymous User wrote:How do you normally approach reviewing a first-year associate after only six months? I received what seemed to me to be over-the-top positive reviews, but it's hard to tell what's genuine, and what's standard practice so as to not scare off the new associates.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
In your experience, do former clerks make better associates/lawyers than others with the same law school pedigree? (i.e. top of the class Cornell clerk vs top of the class Cornell non-clerk)
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I don't mean to be nosy at all, just genuinely curious:
Has your lifestyle caught up to your income? As I'm going through the lockstep and bonuses, I'm struggling with how much I should take advantage of the extra income or whether I should maintain my (very comfortable though not luxurious) first/second-year spending habits. I imagine the shift is probably more extreme at the partnership level.
Has your lifestyle caught up to your income? As I'm going through the lockstep and bonuses, I'm struggling with how much I should take advantage of the extra income or whether I should maintain my (very comfortable though not luxurious) first/second-year spending habits. I imagine the shift is probably more extreme at the partnership level.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Guessing yes re: litigation, not necessarily re: corporate? Certainly a helpful exercise but by no means a "must"Anonymous User wrote:In your experience, do former clerks make better associates/lawyers than others with the same law school pedigree? (i.e. top of the class Cornell clerk vs top of the class Cornell non-clerk)
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Well, all depends on long-term views.Anonymous User wrote:I don't mean to be nosy at all, just genuinely curious:
Has your lifestyle caught up to your income? As I'm going through the lockstep and bonuses, I'm struggling with how much I should take advantage of the extra income or whether I should maintain my (very comfortable though not luxurious) first/second-year spending habits. I imagine the shift is probably more extreme at the partnership level.
I don't think I really cranked up my spending as I progressed through the associate ranks, partially because I didn't know whether this would be a long term path and partially just because of my nature. I put a decent amount in the bank/market and accordingly, when partnership brought with it the promise of many future years of stable income (and the accordant willingness of lenders to offer me ungodly amounts) I was able to take a chunk and buy a nice home.
So, benefits to passing the marshmallow test.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
How does one find out about firms' practices when it comes to letting associates go? I know that Cravath is an "up or out" firm, but which others?
Have you seen the Paul Hastings and Dechert threads? How does one find out which firms fire associates after only the first or second year?
Have you seen the Paul Hastings and Dechert threads? How does one find out which firms fire associates after only the first or second year?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Should we be worried about the latest wave of layoffs (40 from Seyfurth, dozen or so from Deschert even first years, and some firms firing lawyers after they failed the bar just once)? Are these isolated incidents or is there a wave coming? Is the market gonna take a hard hit soon?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
What kept you going? Someone makes the calls, you write the papers with the calls they make. I'm only a few years in but it's fucking soul crushing to watch the idiots that pay the bills be idiots while I put in many, many hours.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
No firm will let you stick around forever unless you're continuing to add value. At the senior ranks, that either means near-partner level capabilities (running deals, etc.) and/or specific niche knowledge (specialist talents, etc.). These may or may not result in moving you into a different category (counsel at many firms, "senior attorney" at Cravath, which hides it). Once you stop being able to produce the requisite level of quality work product relative to your seniority/experience/rate, your days are numbered everywhere.Wild Card wrote:How does one find out about firms' practices when it comes to letting associates go? I know that Cravath is an "up or out" firm, but which others?
Have you seen the Paul Hastings and Dechert threads? How does one find out which firms fire associates after only the first or second year?
Every firm is willing to fire a first or second year associate if the case warrants it. Rare, but it does happen. I haven't heard the latest re: Paul Hastings but did hear re: Dechert, and usually that suggests some broader financial trends that aren't great (whether short-term or long-term is usually TBD). For the most part, the higher you go on vault the less likely to occur; profits per partner is an imperfect metric there as firms like Cadwalader have historically juiced leverage to the extreme to produce high PPP
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Definitely hard to tell. I think firms like ours (assume everyone in the V20-30 or so) are doing pretty well and no real risk anytime soon. But I would not love to be at a NYC based firm without a few top-tier practice groups - I think the guys in the bottom quartile of Vault / AmLaw 200 are seriously at risk as the industry continues stratifying into winners and losersLurkerTurnedMember wrote:Should we be worried about the latest wave of layoffs (40 from Seyfurth, dozen or so from Deschert even first years, and some firms firing lawyers after they failed the bar just once)? Are these isolated incidents or is there a wave coming? Is the market gonna take a hard hit soon?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Luck, timing? World went through some weird cycles during my associate years. I think bigger picture they started dangling the keys to the kingdom in front of me at some point - that kept the hamster wheel turning. Of course, little did I know that beyond that first door were many, many more doors (to which the keys were not yet provided). Still, much better being on the inside even if I'm not in the penthouse.jkpolk wrote:What kept you going? Someone makes the calls, you write the papers with the calls they make. I'm only a few years in but it's fucking soul crushing to watch the idiots that pay the bills be idiots while I put in many, many hours.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I realize that the amount varies from firm-to-firm, but how much does an equity partnership buy-in cost (i.e, V firm 15-30, or whatever you are comfortable with)? What is the income difference between equity income and non-equity (half as much, etc.)? Generally speaking.itbdvorm wrote:...when partnership brought with it the promise of many future years of stable income (and the accordant willingness of lenders to offer me ungodly amounts) I was able to take a chunk and buy a nice home.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
To quote DJ Khaled, can you please describe those "keys, keys, keys" and all the twists and turns it takes to be where you are beyond the obvious of being good enough to be a partner.itbdvorm wrote:Luck, timing? World went through some weird cycles during my associate years. I think bigger picture they started dangling the keys to the kingdom in front of me at some point - that kept the hamster wheel turning. Of course, little did I know that beyond that first door were many, many more doors (to which the keys were not yet provided). Still, much better being on the inside even if I'm not in the penthouse.jkpolk wrote:What kept you going? Someone makes the calls, you write the papers with the calls they make. I'm only a few years in but it's fucking soul crushing to watch the idiots that pay the bills be idiots while I put in many, many hours.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
What is the ratio of partners who are genuinely nice people just trying to do right by their clients and better their families v. partners who are pure sociopaths that are invigorated by the worst aspects of this job? And how good is the latter group at disguising themselves as the former?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I'm at the point where that first key is at least starting to get mentioned in conversation. At risk of mixing our metaphors too much, what are the other doors that only became apparent after you got that (first) brass ring?itbdvorm wrote:Luck, timing? World went through some weird cycles during my associate years. I think bigger picture they started dangling the keys to the kingdom in front of me at some point - that kept the hamster wheel turning. Of course, little did I know that beyond that first door were many, many more doors (to which the keys were not yet provided). Still, much better being on the inside even if I'm not in the penthouse.jkpolk wrote:What kept you going? Someone makes the calls, you write the papers with the calls they make. I'm only a few years in but it's fucking soul crushing to watch the idiots that pay the bills be idiots while I put in many, many hours.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
There's a saying: "if you have to ask, you can't afford it."Anonymous User wrote:I realize that the amount varies from firm-to-firm, but how much does an equity partnership buy-in cost (i.e, V firm 15-30, or whatever you are comfortable with)? What is the income difference between equity income and non-equity (half as much, etc.)? Generally speaking.itbdvorm wrote:...when partnership brought with it the promise of many future years of stable income (and the accordant willingness of lenders to offer me ungodly amounts) I was able to take a chunk and buy a nice home.
That's not the case with the buy-in; if anything, it's effectively the opposite. You can't afford it now, but firms find ways to finance it for you. So it's not meaningful in the short term.
Think about it more than anything else as a forced allocation of your post-partnership investment portfolio into something that gets a relatively meager return.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Don't really follow this question?redsox550 wrote:To quote DJ Khaled, can you please describe those "keys, keys, keys" and all the twists and turns it takes to be where you are beyond the obvious of being good enough to be a partner.itbdvorm wrote:Luck, timing? World went through some weird cycles during my associate years. I think bigger picture they started dangling the keys to the kingdom in front of me at some point - that kept the hamster wheel turning. Of course, little did I know that beyond that first door were many, many more doors (to which the keys were not yet provided). Still, much better being on the inside even if I'm not in the penthouse.jkpolk wrote:What kept you going? Someone makes the calls, you write the papers with the calls they make. I'm only a few years in but it's fucking soul crushing to watch the idiots that pay the bills be idiots while I put in many, many hours.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I'd say I've encountered only a handful of those sociopaths. But they are absolutely out there, and most are actually really good at disguising themselves over a short term period. Be generally wary of partners who are repeat laterals over a relatively short-term period. If you graduated law school after 1995 and you're on your 4th partnership (other than in instances where firms are no longer in existence) that's not a good sign.Martin Brody wrote:What is the ratio of partners who are genuinely nice people just trying to do right by their clients and better their families v. partners who are pure sociopaths that are invigorated by the worst aspects of this job? And how good is the latter group at disguising themselves as the former?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Frankly almost too many to list. I guess the basic premise is to think about the dynamic between a junior associate and a senior associate. Then think about the dynamic between a junior partner and a senior partner. A decent number of similarities, from an understanding of the profession, to compensation, to visibility into long-term future, to decisions regarding the direction of the firm...Lincoln wrote:I'm at the point where that first key is at least starting to get mentioned in conversation. At risk of mixing our metaphors too much, what are the other doors that only became apparent after you got that (first) brass ring?itbdvorm wrote:Luck, timing? World went through some weird cycles during my associate years. I think bigger picture they started dangling the keys to the kingdom in front of me at some point - that kept the hamster wheel turning. Of course, little did I know that beyond that first door were many, many more doors (to which the keys were not yet provided). Still, much better being on the inside even if I'm not in the penthouse.jkpolk wrote:What kept you going? Someone makes the calls, you write the papers with the calls they make. I'm only a few years in but it's fucking soul crushing to watch the idiots that pay the bills be idiots while I put in many, many hours.
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
What's the longest vacation you've taken since starting in biglaw? How about non-working vacation?
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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
How do you handle (and have you ever handled) OCI interviews with students that are completely out of range / much lower in terms of traditional GPA/Ranking requirements for your firm? For example, if someone bid on your firm and were chosen by the lottery for an interview, but their ranking is significantly lower than what you typically hire. Do they still have a chance to impress you/sell themselves? Or are they basically out from the beginning?
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